Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

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Tricia

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Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below


HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19
delphi-suspect-sketch-ht-jef-190422_hpEmbed_5x6_992.jpg



HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.


Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to [email protected]

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.


Pictures of Abby and Libby

link to post with all threads 1-99 (courtesy of margarita25)

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Thread #109 - Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109
Thread #110 - Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110
Thread #111 - Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111
Thread #112 - Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112
Thread #113 - Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113
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*Media Maps & Timelines*
IMAGE Discussion Thread
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Rules Etiquette & Information
Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
grayhuze youtube channel

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION

DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.


PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

4) If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.
 
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JnRyan

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What if Libby’s video has more on it? BG approaching Abbie and touching her?
Maybe. In that case, what if LE found 10 sets of DNA and identified the contributor in half of them, in that example they would not know which of the remaining is his. And, of course, there is the question, 'Does a touch or contact ALWAYS leave DNA?' (I can just hear a DNA lab expert now..."It depends." And then they bring up more questions than I have here.) Which would leave the possibility LE still doesn't have his DNA. Then what is the possibility that the lab missed the DNA when going over the jacket. On that last one, I wonder why LE sent evidence to the lab in December 2018. I don't remember for sure if this was untested evidence or evidence sent back, but I thought I read 'retested' in the article.

The arguments might be moot, though. LE may have more audio than video because Liberty may have put the phone in her pocket. I do remember ISP 1st Sgt Holeman when asked if he thought the killer knew was recorded and he said, in his opinion, he did not believe the killer knew or suspected. Maybe that is because Liberty didn't leave the phone out long.
 

JnRyan

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Based on your profession, I'm hoping you can answer this for me. Isn't it unusual to leave a signature, much less three of them?

Leaving one signature might require some forethought but three? It seems to me that someone committing a random crime of opportunity wouldn't leave a signature unless he is a SK or intends to be one.

After I read about the Iowa case a couple of months ago, I couldn't shake the feeling that there is a connection.
I've leaned toward no 'direct' connection. 'Direct' meaning the Delphi killer was not involved as the Iowa killer or an accomplice. No other reason other than I believe the geographic distance between the two crimes make it unlikely. I've often wondered about what I would call an 'indirect'. That is the Delphi killer was fascinated by the Iowa killings and planned his own of that type. That is, a copycat.

In an early interview, ISP 1st Sgt Holeman, the lead investigator for ISP, stated something to the effect that they found 'no connection' between the two. I believe that is a carefully worded response meaning they haven't determined a connection BUT they haven't ruled it out either. More often than not I hear "We have not FOUND a connection." and not "There is NO connection." There is a difference. Abigail and Liberty were found very quickly. In Iowa, it was many months later. You bring up signatures, something we did not discuss earlier when looking at the two crimes because we didn't know about them. If, as NIN posed earlier, the signatures are in the manner of killing, the autopsy in the Iowa killings may not be able to see signatures due to decomp.

I also still wonder about the Iowa killings. And what role, if any, they have here.
 

JnRyan

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The bridge needs to be renovated. Otherwise it continues to deteriorate and an accident is inevitable. We can't wait for Bridge Guy to be captured because there isn't a logical timetable. These threads could be going a decade from now.

After I walked the bridge in November my immediate thought was that it needs to be fully fenced off near the foot of the bridge so other knuckleheads can't do what I did...effortlessly loop around the gate with the lock and warning sign. That discourages nothing.

Planks are soft and squishy. That's the overriding problem that is seldom mentioned and won't show up in any drone video. It's not a big deal avoiding the missing plank or the areas where the gaps are widest. The planks vary wildly in terms of stability and it isn't always obvious via appearance. Maybe 1/3 of the way through I put my left foot forward on a seemingly solid plank. Next thing you know it's giving way to the point I'm leaning backward and doing a full two-armed whirlybird trying to regain my balance.

Fortunately it succeeded. I don't want to guess what would have happened if I'd fallen fully backward into the planks. But a situation like that is why I decided beforehand to stop and film at only certain intervals, instead of filming while walking as others have.

Maybe 100 feet later there was another lesser version of the same thing. That's when I decided there was no chance I'm crossing again on the way back. It ended up a one hour detour through the woods but that was perfectly acceptable.

Also, the platforms on the bridge seem secure but just imagine if one of them goes. Nothing can save you. That could happen without warning. It would be favorite to give way in an instant without warning. At least if a plank gave way you might be able to fall in such a manner not to go through the opening.

Charming visuals, huh?

Such a great area. I walked several trails in Delphi including Canal Park area, Trailhead Park area and Moyer Gould Woods. Monon High is far the best kept and most scenic. It deserves to be the centerpiece. I've read the details of the planned renovation including rails and an expanded trail all the way back to Delphi. That's a mile away.

Very ambitious and admirable but I have no idea how they can do it for that price tag. Maybe I'm using my area as reference. The permitting alone would run $260,000.
I assume you did this with hands out for balance. Not in your pockets like this killer appeared to be doing. I'm curious. Based on your crossing how long would it have taken for you to cross the bridge had you not stopped to take photos but were determined to cross it quickly? Did your crossing the bridge convince that this killer has likely crossed it before - in the past, if not earlier that same day?
 

StarryStarryNight

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I've leaned toward no 'direct' connection. 'Direct' meaning the Delphi killer was not involved as the Iowa killer or an accomplice. No other reason other than I believe the geographic distance between the two crimes make it unlikely. I've often wondered about what I would call an 'indirect'. That is the Delphi killer was fascinated by the Iowa killings and planned his own of that type. That is, a copycat.

In an early interview, ISP 1st Sgt Holeman, the lead investigator for ISP, stated something to the effect that they found 'no connection' between the two. I believe that is a carefully worded response meaning they haven't determined a connection BUT they haven't ruled it out either. More often than not I hear "We have not FOUND a connection." and not "There is NO connection." There is a difference. Abigail and Liberty were found very quickly. In Iowa, it was many months later. You bring up signatures, something we did not discuss earlier when looking at the two crimes because we didn't know about them. If, as NIN posed earlier, the signatures are in the manner of killing, the autopsy in the Iowa killings may not be able to see signatures due to decomp.

I also still wonder about the Iowa killings. And what role, if any, they have here.

I tend to think there is no connection between Iowa and Delphi. The weird similarities about dates etc in the beginning were interesting but really just wild speculation. The victims, because of their age differences, are, in my opinion, very different and requiring a very different skill set to pull off. In Delphi a bridge was the site of the girls being accosted. In Iowa a very remote wilderness area named after a bridge is where the bodies were found. I don’t see how that is alike at all. Double victims are very rare but that in itself doesn’t connect them. As you pointed out, any signatures at the crime scene in Iowa are obscured and unfortunately that’s not going to change. I wish LE could find a connection, but I sure cannot see one.
 

JnRyan

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I tend to think there is no connection between Iowa and Delphi. The weird similarities about dates etc in the beginning were interesting but really just wild speculation. The victims, because of their age differences, are, in my opinion, very different and requiring a very different skill set to pull off. In Delphi a bridge was the site of the girls being accosted. In Iowa a very remote wilderness area named after a bridge is where the bodies were found. I don’t see how that is alike at all. Double victims are very rare but that in itself doesn’t connect them. As you pointed out, any signatures at the crime scene in Iowa are obscured and unfortunately that’s not going to change. I wish LE could find a connection, but I sure cannot see one.
As I said I believe it is likely there is no direct connection. You seemed to have ruled out an indirect connection as well. What good would such a connection be? Probably very little and LE probably wouldn't learn about such until they caught their killer. But what if the Delphi killer had an unusual, and vocal, fascination with the Iowa killings? This, along with any of the signs a killer of Abigail and Liberty might exhibit (e.g., change of appearance, sudden abuse of drugs/alcohol), might further lead to the killer.

As far as a direct connection there is too much distance and too many differences. Also, as you pointed out double murders like this are rare. I believe it was a retired FBI agent stated there were only a total of 15 cases in the US in the last 35-50 years. (I remember '15 cases', but I don't remember the time frame.) That said, what if it is the same killer and they have evolved? Lyric and Elizabeth were ages 10 and 8. That is a big difference between controlling children 8 or 10 and children 14 years old. In both cases the killer was bold. (I like the word 'bold' as opposed to 'confident'. 'Confident' just seems to have a more positive connotation for me and I see nothing positive about these killings.) In both cases this was a very bold killer who either planned well in advance or on the fly and could adapt his plan as the situation evolved. Did he evolve?

I think LE in the Evansdale murders know less than the Delphi investigators due to the length of time the bodies and crime scene was exposed to the elements before being examined. The fact that the lead investigator in the Delphi murders tends to avoid stating they believe there is no connection would lead me to believe there is enough doubt in their minds. And they know more about both cases than the public.

I believe that if this guy has killed before - or since - it was likely a single victim. And that victim may only be classified by LE as missing. That is, no body has been found and therefore no signatures.

And the signatures leads to another discussion. If the Delphi killer purposely left signatures, what satisfaction would he achieve if the bodies were not found? The killer in Evansdale appears to gone to great lengths to ensure the bodies would be hard to find, if not impossible. Such an effort might cause such signatures to be eliminated by weather and animals. A wasted effort in the mind of the killer if he left a signature or signatures. That seems to make the argument that the two crimes are not directly related. Unless, again, a killer evolved.

Right off the only sets of double murders that come to my mind are the ones that were committed not far from me. The Colonial Parkway Murders. And LE is not in complete agreement that all 4 sets are related. The one big argument for a direct relationship that they have is the question, "What are the chances of this many double murders in the same general area within this time frame?" Leaving out the 'general area', that question seems to be one that comes up with Evansdale and Delphi.
 

bradfordsleuth

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We don't really know how much information about the Iowa crime scene has been held back as the media attention and as well as the info released surrounding the Iowa case and crime scene seems to be much less than that of the Delphi case.

I make this assessment simply based on the info available on the Media Thread, as I did not follow the Evansdale case as it happened, nor did I read every single thread afterwards so there may be info that I missed that didn't make it to the Media Thread. JMO

Based on my understanding of what a signature is, it doesn't only have to be in the manner of killing. It could also be something like a note or something he deliberately left at the scene, evidence of a personal missing item from the victims (a shoe, a sock, or an earring) or even something that may have occurred after the crime. ie: The perp reaching out to LE (anonymously) to disclose something about the crime that only he would know.

I believe that something that occurred in the Colorado case had LE looking hard at a comparison between both cases. One similarity between the two cases that may be a 'signature' of sorts was at least one shoe of two of the victims (TW and LG) were not found on the victims....but helped start the trail (bike, wallet and clothing in Colarado and footprints in Delphi) that led to each victim.

I wonder if the shoes of LC and EC were found on them? I couldn't find that info when I was looking. The discovered bikes and EC's purse were certainly a key indicator of foul play...but those items didn't leave a trail for LE to follow that we know of.

I also believe that the 6000 billboards in 46 states is indicative that LE and the FBI thought a serial killer was a big possibility and here is why:

The pics of the girls on the billboards were quite large....even more so than the pic of the killer. From this link....FBI launches digital billboard campaign in search for killer of Delphi teens
upload_2020-2-28_13-46-11.png

Perhaps LE was trying to get the girl's faces out there across the USA equally as much as the killers in order to see if anyone seeing their faces was shocked into mentioning that the girls bore a startling resemblance to other children that had been murdered in a different state?

Maybe he left something at the crime scene that let them know that he had done something like this before?

JMO and a few Friday afternoon thoughts
 

TL4S

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We don't really know how much information about the Iowa crime scene has been held back as the media attention and as well as the info released surrounding the Iowa case and crime scene seems to be much less than that of the Delphi case.

I make this assessment simply based on the info available on the Media Thread, as I did not follow the Evansdale case as it happened, nor did I read every single thread afterwards so there may be info that I missed that didn't make it to the Media Thread. JMO

Based on my understanding of what a signature is, it doesn't only have to be in the manner of killing. It could also be something like a note or something he deliberately left at the scene, evidence of a personal missing item from the victims (a shoe, a sock, or an earring) or even something that may have occurred after the crime. ie: The perp reaching out to LE (anonymously) to disclose something about the crime that only he would know.

I believe that something that occurred in the Colorado case had LE looking hard at a comparison between both cases. One similarity between the two cases that may be a 'signature' of sorts was at least one shoe of two of the victims (TW and LG) were not found on the victims....but helped start the trail (bike, wallet and clothing in Colarado and footprints in Delphi) that led to each victim.

I wonder if the shoes of LC and EC were found on them? I couldn't find that info when I was looking. The discovered bikes and EC's purse were certainly a key indicator of foul play...but those items didn't leave a trail for LE to follow that we know of.

I also believe that the 6000 billboards in 46 states is indicative that LE and the FBI thought a serial killer was a big possibility and here is why:

The pics of the girls on the billboards were quite large....even more so than the pic of the killer. From this link....FBI launches digital billboard campaign in search for killer of Delphi teens
View attachment 235104

Perhaps LE was trying to get the girl's faces out there across the USA equally as much as the killers in order to see if anyone seeing their faces was shocked into mentioning that the girls bore a startling resemblance to other children that had been murdered in a different state?

Maybe he left something at the crime scene that let them know that he had done something like this before?

JMO and a few Friday afternoon thoughts
Lots of good thoughts in your post. The billboards really are an interesting aspect in this case, and that along with Ives' description of tons of FBI agents does lend one to imagine a SK scenario.

I do see similarities in the immediate layout of the Monon High Bridge trail and Meyer's Lake trail areas. There are also a handful of large chain, agriculturally-based companies in both locations, which could offer a work-related connection (although I think that's a stretch). There was around 5 years between the murders, and the differences in age was a jump of nearly 5 years, so I'm open to considering IF it's the same killer, he evolved, especially if he's on the younger side. 5 years older, more "experienced," willing to tackle older girls, but maybe not transport them anywhere... IDK. I think to a killer like this, the sheer opportunity is his trigger and he leaps on it.

That being said, I think it's just as likely there's not a connection at all.

As for the "signatures," I'm feeling like maybe these weren't necessarily things he did intentionally. I'm wondering more about clues to his behavior, like covering their faces, or something. Maybe DC sees that as the sign of a "little bit of conscience left." I've always been of the mindset that this was not a planned crime, so I don't see "signatures" as anything purposeful, but instead something he can't help himself from doing...if that makes sense. I could just as easily be completely wrong! :)

In regards to the large pictures of the girls compared to the killer? I think the whole tactic has always been to minimize BG's importance. For the same reason I think LE is being somewhat quiet after the April PC. They don't want to feed him any more than they have to.
 
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Justice101

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...85a804-761e-11e8-805c-4b67019fcfe4_story.html
Call me confused but I was just listening to the Megphone podcast. Part5 Delphi Evidence.

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/sceneofthecrime?selected=HIM3571104404
At 12:50 minutes it says:

"Robert Ives told us that he personally submitted multiple subpoenas seeking to obtain all celphone records within a five mile radius that day to determine who was in the area on the 13th. All owners of celphone that pinged in the area of the bridge that day were contacted regarding their activities and wther they'd seen anything. Investigators looked particularly closely at anyone who's phone records showed that they were newly in the area or spend several hours there during the time in question."
 

Justice101

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That is correct. However, the US Supreme Court ruled on the Stored Communications Act/ 4th Ammendment with a benchmark decision in June of 2018. Perhaps there was still some wiggle room until then. This article from just a few months prior to the USSC decision comes to mind and illustrates the problematic well IMO, as well as showing how differently some of the district courts in CA viewed the base for a cell tower dump/search warrants ruling:

Regardless of the Outcome in United States v. Carpenter, the Stored Communications Act is Problematic

ALL IMO

-Nin

But that is for a specific individual you are looking at. On the other hand, blanket looking at EVERYONE who may have used a cell phone tower on Feb 13, 2017 would not be covered in the specific Supreme Court decision.
 

Falling Down

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One similarity that bothers me between the Delphi and Evansdale cases is crime scene proximity to a major highway system.

There's Interstate 380/hwy 20 directly south of Meyer's Lake in Evansdale, and the Hoosier Heartland Highway just west of the Monon High Bridge Trail. I know the Evansdale girls were moved to another location, but if it's a SK, and that was his first murder, maybe by the time he got to Delphi he didn't want the hassle or risk of transporting.

Anyway, it's probably not significant, but when I look at the maps, that's the first thing that stands out. It makes me wonder about the side roads around and under those major highways, too. Someone traveling a regular route, for whatever reason, and it involves taking exits on and off those highways routinely, and he happens to see girls alone in wooded areas...

Also of note, there's a waterway (Cedar River - IA, Deer Creek - IN) nearby in both cases, along with park grounds, bridges that cross the waterway, and nature trails.

There are a few similarities, but one glaring difference to me is BG was on foot, and went through a lot of trouble to get the girls to the CS. Again, on foot.

It bears mentioning, again. The new IN 25 was only 2.5 years old when the murders happened, and that's where I agree with your good post and the circumstances of both cases. A highway offering easy entrance and egress to and from the areas in question.

JMO
 

Falling Down

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The bridge needs to be renovated. Otherwise it continues to deteriorate and an accident is inevitable. We can't wait for Bridge Guy to be captured because there isn't a logical timetable. These threads could be going a decade from now.

After I walked the bridge in November my immediate thought was that it needs to be fully fenced off near the foot of the bridge so other knuckleheads can't do what I did...effortlessly loop around the gate with the lock and warning sign. That discourages nothing.

Planks are soft and squishy. That's the overriding problem that is seldom mentioned and won't show up in any drone video. It's not a big deal avoiding the missing plank or the areas where the gaps are widest. The planks vary wildly in terms of stability and it isn't always obvious via appearance. Maybe 1/3 of the way through I put my left foot forward on a seemingly solid plank. Next thing you know it's giving way to the point I'm leaning backward and doing a full two-armed whirlybird trying to regain my balance.

Fortunately it succeeded. I don't want to guess what would have happened if I'd fallen fully backward into the planks. But a situation like that is why I decided beforehand to stop and film at only certain intervals, instead of filming while walking as others have.

Maybe 100 feet later there was another lesser version of the same thing. That's when I decided there was no chance I'm crossing again on the way back. It ended up a one hour detour through the woods but that was perfectly acceptable.

Also, the platforms on the bridge seem secure but just imagine if one of them goes. Nothing can save you. That could happen without warning. It would be favorite to give way in an instant without warning. At least if a plank gave way you might be able to fall in such a manner not to go through the opening.

Charming visuals, huh?

Such a great area. I walked several trails in Delphi including Canal Park area, Trailhead Park area and Moyer Gould Woods. Monon High is far the best kept and most scenic. It deserves to be the centerpiece. I've read the details of the planned renovation including rails and an expanded trail all the way back to Delphi. That's a mile away.

Very ambitious and admirable but I have no idea how they can do it for that price tag. Maybe I'm using my area as reference. The permitting alone would run $260,000.

Thanks again for your efforts and sharing them, here.
 

Falling Down

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Agreed. I also think it places great doubt toward the notion that the disturbance down the hill beyond the end of the bridge was so blatantly obvious. If that were the case then everyone searching that afternoon would have been focusing on that area. It's maybe 130 yards from the disturbance at the end of the bridge to where Libby's shoe was found.

Check any overhead view and you'll see that the area east of the bridge is a small semi circle. In February minus leaves you can cover that area in 15 minutes or less. Comfortably. You could sit and rest for 5 minutes and still cover it in 15. Two slopes straight down. No caves or any concealment areas. Plenty of wide open nothing. Thin trees. Then the creek.

One of the podcasts indicated they checked the huge cement platforms under the bridge, actually having men dangerously scale the platforms. That's what they were focusing on, an accident from the bridge itself. Obviously that would leave the girls smack under the bridge and not 130 yards away. That was probably more logical than any other incident. But seemingly they overplayed that version to the exclusion of anything else.

Then once the bodies were found and video discovered the confrontation point becomes obvious. That lends to the disturbance beyond the bridge suddenly being exploded in value and focus.

Minus knowledge of this crime, if we had a picture of that down the hill area from 4 PM on February 13 I bet it would have looked like plenty of leaves on the side of a slope. One person would see one thing and another person something else entirely.

^^^^I agree with this post.

Even if people saw the disturbed soil and ground leaves at the SE end, they would have not known if it was due to the girls.

Your distance is roughly what myself and others believe it to be, from the SE end to where the shoe was found. Even with the creek being a barrier and slowing people down a little, from the SE end to the CS was probably covered in under 5 or 6 minutes. BG would have been in a hurry to get the girls away from the bridge, anyway.

JMO
 

TL4S

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There are a few similarities, but one glaring difference to me is BG was on foot, and went through a lot of trouble to get the girls to the CS. Again, on foot.

It bears mentioning, again. The new IN 25 was only 2.5 years old when the murders happened, and that's where I agree with your good post and the circumstances of both cases. A highway offering easy entrance and egress to and from the areas in question.

JMO
True enough! I'm not as well versed in the Iowa case. Where were the bikes found in proximity to the road? And, is it known where exactly the girls were killed?
 

Ravenmoon

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A note on some POTENTIAL signatures:

Please know.. the following is only IMO, MOO, JMO:

If posing has been used , it is usually done in order to:

Shock the people that find the bodies OR
for gratification of the killer ( probably sexually).

At times,
killers have left ACTUAL notes for LE.
These are meant to taunt or to show superiority.

There are times that a body part is removed from a victim, and taken ..or left.

Sometimes, a type of symbol is left.
Think along the lines of serial killer Richard Ramirez.

There are instances when victims will be forced to eat , drink or smoke something.. and the remnants will be left in suite an obvious manner.
Possibly posed or staged.

There have been instances when the killer uses a victims clothing as a weapon.

I am sure there are many signatures that I cannot even begin to know of..these are a few that come to mind.

All MOO

EBM for clarity ( hopefully)




 

Ravenmoon

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Yes. But I bet whoever deposited the girls on RL’s land - if it happened - did not like RL too. He probably knew that RL was away, he created a major problem for RL. So either hated him, or hoped RL would sell his land after that.


To my knowledge and recollection , it has been said that the girls lay where their lives were ended.
This was not a secondary crime scene.

MOO
 

TL4S

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^^^^I agree with this post.

Even if people saw the disturbed soil and ground leaves at the SE end, they would have not known if it was due to the girls.

Your distance is roughly what myself and others believe it to be, from the SE end to where the shoe was found. Even with the creek being a barrier and slowing people down a little, from the SE end to the CS was probably covered in under 5 or 6 minutes. BG would have been in a hurry to get the girls away from the bridge, anyway.

JMO
I still wonder about the exact location the encounter actually occurred. If the girls were wary enough of BG to film him, were they likely to stay at the end of the bridge as he got closer, or might they have gone below to try to avoid him until he crossed back over before them? If I was uncomfortable with an individual, I wouldn't want to come face to face with him in an isolated location, and then cross a high bridge with that person behind me. That's not judging the girls' decisions, either, as they were put into an impossible situation. But I do wonder if "down the hill" is a different hill than the one just off the end of the bridge.
 

Serdavc

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foot.

It bears mentioning, again. The new IN 25 was only 2.5 years old when the murders happened, and that's where I agree with your good post and the circumstances of both cases. A highway offering easy entrance and egress to and from the areas in question.
Agreed and I wanted to add that there was extensive highway construction in the area of both Meyers Lake in IA (The I380 construction in Evansdale was going on before and during the the same time as Lyric and Lizzie’s case) and there was extensive highway construction before Abby and Libby’s case on IN25 in Delphi. Both highway constructions completely changed the areas of both cases. I can’t rule out that BG was a highway construction worker in both areas going to where the jobs were to be found or that he could possibly be an environmental impact engineer who had to scout these areas extensively for his job.
ETA -I’m not sure if there was construction on IN 25 in Delphi during or after Feb 17 so I edited my post.
MOO
 
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NameUser

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Even though I've followed the case closely, i struggle sometimes with exactly what people are referring to with the wider trail network in and around Delphi. I'm posting this map with the tracer for what was the old Monon right-of-way through Delphi, I screen shot it from a YT video a user posted. They walked from Pittsburg, IN, which is across the Wabash R., through Delphi, on to the trail by 25, and over to the bridge.

Is this kind of what you're referring to?

Yes it is!

I think it is at least an option that someone was passing through the area on the trail. This would give them some bit of confidence(IMO) that there was no one behind them to see him escort them down the hill. It is a long bridge to cross and with a far sight line. The killer would most likely want to know if someone was behind them.
 
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