Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[Marzipan]

I’m still going with my initial instinct that this is a random perp, jmo.

I’m still leaning toward BG being one of the early named POIs, whether they were officially called that or not. I think we don’t use even initials anymore. It’s a known criminal who was later said not to be a focus anymore but who looks like the old BG sketch.
Anyway, I’m easily pulled into other scenarios but keep going back to that one, which I know doesn’t fit with the community being shocked or anything.
My opinion, which changes frequently.

 

[Yemelyan]

I’m still leaning toward BG being one of the early named POIs, whether they were officially called that or not. I think we don’t use even initials anymore. It’s a known criminal who was later said not to be a focus anymore but who looks like the old BG sketch.
Anyway, I’m easily pulled into other scenarios but keep going back to that one, which I know doesn’t fit with the community being shocked or anything.
My opinion, which changes frequently.

If he remains a "good" POI, why do you think LE said he wasn't of interest to them anymore? Or you think that they are just on the wrong track?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I’m still leaning toward BG being one of the early named POIs, whether they were officially called that or not. I think we don’t use even initials anymore. It’s a known criminal who was later said not to be a focus anymore but who looks like the old BG sketch.
Anyway, I’m easily pulled into other scenarios but keep going back to that one, which I know doesn’t fit with the community being shocked or anything.
My opinion, which changes frequently.

What ever happened to that guy? He looked like he posed for that first sketch! That nose...

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I’m still leaning toward BG being one of the early named POIs, whether they were officially called that or not. I think we don’t use even initials anymore. It’s a known criminal who was later said not to be a focus anymore but who looks like the old BG sketch.
Anyway, I’m easily pulled into other scenarios but keep going back to that one, which I know doesn’t fit with the community being shocked or anything.
My opinion, which changes frequently.

If it is him at the end, then I will be shocked, exorbitantly. Yes, the sketch #1 he did fit nearly 100%, IMO. His character/behaviour/life style/childhood dramas/criminal record seemed to fit as well. Even a motive we would have been able to guess!

 

[Marzipan]

If he remains a "good" POI, why do you think LE said he wasn't of interest to them anymore? Or you think that they are just on the wrong track?

I don’t know. I’m so struck by how he looks like the first sketch. Not in the way others resemble him but how it is him. So was he just there but is not BG? And he’s a known trail assaulter. I have others in mind for sure, but they are more in the category of would-make-a-good-novel. But if he is still a good POI, LE knows this, regardless of statements.

 

[flashy09]

Going back to the witness that said eyes are definitely not blue....unless she is describing someone hispanic or black, do you really notice eye color of someone you pass by....and remember it, when at the time it's an inconsequential meeting?

It's interesting to me how LE seemed to give the impression of being duped at the last PC and starting over. Now there is no mention of eye color and the sketch is completely different. Could be the witness described someone correctly and LE has learned that is not BG. Or...could the witness intentionally have thrown off the sketch and description?

 

[sunshineray]

"Community" open to interpretation? Then: yes, I agree.

Yes that could be interpreted in many ways. If he was someone involved in the county's government, whatever branch...or someone who taught students or someone involved in serving the public helping when needed, starting up community projects, that kind of thing. Now if he was all of those and more, LE could have quite the task ahead of them trying to gather what they needed. So if the level of a person's community involvement was more extensive if would probably insulate them more from scrutiny...until maybe someone spoke up. AJMO

 

[Marzipan]

Going back to the witness that said eyes are definitely not blue....unless she is describing someone hispanic or black, do you really notice eye color of someone you pass by....and remember it, when at the time it's an inconsequential meeting?

It's interesting to me how LE seemed to give the impression of being duped at the last PC and starting over. Now there is no mention of eye color and the sketch is completely different. Could be the witness described someone correctly and LE has learned that is not BG. Or...could the witness intentionally have thrown off the sketch and description?

For a witness to have described that known criminal to perfection in order to mislead...did they have time to look up a good fake suspect to describe? Or did they know of this person? Seems like a stretch. Maybe, and I’ve considered it, but I don’t think so.

Edited to add: then again, maybe so. Some of the other potential peeps are intelligent and maybe manipulative enough to do this. What do I know? Not much. I go back and forth between it being a career criminal, maybe already in jail, and it really being someone who will be a shock to the community.

 

[somequestions]

First post.. This case still bothers me to this day, since I heard about it back in 2017. Still check in on this thread time to time to see if there's any new leads/developments to ultimately catch BG. The current unfolding scandal in Carroll County could be huge here. Some things are starting to connect up. The second younger sketch is crucial. Especially the shape of his one eye. This is not a coincidence. Like many on here, I believe they have an idea who BG is. Just the same, BG probably knows they've narrowed on him. But they don't have that nail in the coffin evidence to put him away. BG has high power standing, confident, smart and knows what he's doing. A name was dropped on one of these threads a while back. The resemblance to the two sketches to this name is extremely eerie. The second younger sketch is by design, especially the uniqueness of his one eye is very specific. They are closing in on BG, only a matter of time. But he is well insulated and thinks he can't be touched or caught. MOO

I think even if LE had enough evidence to get an arrest warrant for someone who was under the age of 40, I would still be shaking my head about it. It would be hard for me to believe. In my opinion, the man in the bridge video from Liberty German's phone does not look like he is under the age of 40.

I know there is probably no way this person could have known two girls from Delphi, Indiana would walk across the bridge that day, but I think this person is careful about witnesses. The sketches released by LE are an attempt to find people that have not been cleared that were seen out on the Monon High Bridge trail that day. And maybe by finding one of them LE gets lucky and it ends up being the killer too.

But I really doubt the killer is a young person who was under the age of 40 when the crime was committed. I think it is hard to consider the idea that the man from Liberty German's phone video may not have been seen entering or leaving the trail area that day. Or if the killer was seen, no one remembered his description well enough to provide a useful description to LE that would help identify who he is. And that means, without the right tip(and with the wrong sketches), his identity could remain a mystery for a very long time.

I think the only hope for this case is that someone out there might recognize the man from Liberty German's phone video and send in the right tip that leads to his identity. I think that will always remain a day to day possibility.

 

[watcher9]

It’s been awhile since I watched the GH video that shows the end of the bridge and the crime scene area surrounded by crime scene tape and I’m unable to find what I’m looking for at the moment. But I’m almost certain no houses are within view anywhere nearby. The landowner’s house is in the far corner of his 40 acres and at a much higher elevation than the river.

This is the raw video taken by Julie with her husband. Even though there’s no leaves in the trees, the entire area is quite bushy with no real clear sight lines in any direction. The close proximity of the deadend road/private driveway that runs under end of the bridge is very visible in this clip.

Jumping off on your post, I never could figure how someone down on the creek would know where one property line ends and another begins so the argument of it being on RL's land purposely didn't ring true to me. When I was looking at the Google maps back then, I concluded that the crime scene was located to be out of sight from the bridge and had nothing to do with the neighbors and their houses.

Later, I also felt that he came from the his truck parked on the dead end road and may never had walked on the trails. I thought he may have been trying to herd the girls down to his parked truck when the girls made a run for it. I never could find out where the dead end road going under the bridge and the private driveway at the end of the bridge split?

I also figured that with all the searchers, some may have come in from that back way and may have destroyed any tracks his truck would have left. If you look for that dead end road now, it is chained off but back then according to the Google map it was an open road going off into the woods. Just wondering now, how many people drove on that road to fish at the creek?

 

[Charlot123]

I think even if LE had enough evidence to get an arrest warrant for someone who was under the age of 40, I would still be shaking my head about it. It would be hard for me to believe. In my opinion, the man in the bridge video from Liberty German's phone does not look like he is under the age of 40.

I know there is probably no way this person could have known two girls from Delphi, Indiana would walk across the bridge that day, but I think this person is careful about witnesses. The sketches released by LE are an attempt to find people that have not been cleared that were seen out on the Monon High Bridge trail that day. And maybe by finding one of them LE gets lucky and it ends up being the killer too.

But I really doubt the killer is a young person who was under the age of 40 when the crime was committed. I think it is hard to consider the idea that the man from Liberty German's phone video may not have been seen entering or leaving the trail area that day. Or if the killer was seen, no one remembered his description well enough to provide a useful description to LE that would help identify who he is. And that means, without the right tip(and with the wrong sketches), his identity could remain a mystery for a very long time.

I think the only hope for this case is that someone out there might recognize the man from Liberty German's phone video and send in the right tip that leads to his identity. I think that will always remain a day to day possibility.

I wonder about the word “responsible” in DC’s speech when he unveiled youthful assailant, so to say. Does “responsible” mean, “is the person who killed”? Or “who organized the killings”? Or “whose behavior led to the killings?” Or “something else”?

I, too, feel the man on the bridge was older than 40.

RIP, Abby and Libby.

 

[Charlot123]

Going back to the witness that said eyes are definitely not blue....unless she is describing someone hispanic or black, do you really notice eye color of someone you pass by....and remember it, when at the time it's an inconsequential meeting?

It's interesting to me how LE seemed to give the impression of being duped at the last PC and starting over. Now there is no mention of eye color and the sketch is completely different. Could be the witness described someone correctly and LE has learned that is not BG. Or...could the witness intentionally have thrown off the sketch and description?

This article is by a known writer. About changes of the eyes in mania. Pay attention to eye color section.

3 Clues for Recognizing Mania in the Eyes, Plus Other Physical Symptoms | bpHope.com


This is only one version. Someone high on stimulants can have widened pupils, so the eyes look darker, too.

My relative had the eyes that varied from green to hazel depending on the light, a common thing in green eyes. So I personally assume that the guy the witness met had green/hazel eyes (not black, not light blue), but also, eye color is not a “strong” clue in this case, as people wear lenses, too.

 

[SMK777]

I think even if LE had enough evidence to get an arrest warrant for someone who was under the age of 40, I would still be shaking my head about it. It would be hard for me to believe. In my opinion, the man in the bridge video from Liberty German's phone does not look like he is under the age of 40.

I know there is probably no way this person could have known two girls from Delphi, Indiana would walk across the bridge that day, but I think this person is careful about witnesses. The sketches released by LE are an attempt to find people that have not been cleared that were seen out on the Monon High Bridge trail that day. And maybe by finding one of them LE gets lucky and it ends up being the killer too.

But I really doubt the killer is a young person who was under the age of 40 when the crime was committed. I think it is hard to consider the idea that the man from Liberty German's phone video may not have been seen entering or leaving the trail area that day. Or if the killer was seen, no one remembered his description well enough to provide a useful description to LE that would help identify who he is. And that means, without the right tip(and with the wrong sketches), his identity could remain a mystery for a very long time.

I think the only hope for this case is that someone out there might recognize the man from Liberty German's phone video and send in the right tip that leads to his identity. I think that will always remain a day to day possibility.

I also think the video of BG clearly has the aura or gestalt of a middle aged man, 40s or 50s even. If I saw him at a distance like that I would never say I had the impression of a young guy. The audio to me also is intuitively the voice of a middle aged man; again, I would never get the impression of a young guy. If this person is ever caught, I expect him to be 50.

 

[Yemelyan]

I’m not supposed to use E’s name?

According to Websleuths policy, use of full names is discouraged so that in the event some/all of these individuals who've been linked to the case are ultimately ruled not to have been involved, their full names aren't linked to the crime through Websleuths in perpetuity.

 

[Yemelyan]

I don’t know. I’m so struck by how he looks like the first sketch. Not in the way others resemble him but how it is him. So was he just there but is not BG? And he’s a known trail assaulter. I have others in mind for sure, but they are more in the category of would-make-a-good-novel. But if he is still a good POI, LE knows this, regardless of statements.

I agree that we cannot assume LE is giving their full thoughts on his POI status. It wouldn't benefit them to do so.

I'm leaning toward it NOT being DN just because I feel like there would be more movement on the case by now considering what's going on with him legally. However, the fact that ISP actually flew to CO to talk to him when they could have easily had the local FBI field office do the interview tells me there was something pretty significant about him. I don't think it was how much he looked like the sketch, rather I think it was some of the superficial similarities in the crime he was accused of (the murder of Tim Watkins) to the Delphi case. For just one example, we know the victim Watkins was found off the trail obscured by leaves. I think there's a definite chance one or both of the girls could have been left the same way. We know one of Watkins' cycling shoes was found far from his body. Same with Libby's shoe, etc. Clearly not everything about the crimes were the same but I think there were enough similarities that LE had to look at DN very closely.

 

[stattlich1]

I like reading along.
I recall so much analysis on this guy that it made my head spin.

Is that a hat, or a full head of hair?
What's that, a billy club going down his right thigh, inside his jeans?
Does he have a leather work pouch?
That HAS to be a gun outline, say, his right side, inner jacket pocket!
Around his neck? A scarf? A drinking straw? A plastic bag? A grey hoodie stickin' out?
Does the dude have a limp? Or is he high steppin' the gaps between those ties?

And then there's the age thingy. This particular frame, for me, gives him a boyish look of say, 22 to 27 years old!

Then again, if I stare long enough at that head of hair, I begin to see a coon skin cap, maybe a fox head hat, or some such wild animal with a pointy nose looking back at me.

See that baby face or what?

Clic the pic to expand

 

[SMK777]

And then there's the age thingy. This particular frame, for me, gives him a boyish look of say, 22 to 27 years old!

For me, a dour look of 50.

 

[Yemelyan]

I also think the video of BG clearly has the aura or gestalt of a middle aged man, 40s or 50s even. If I saw him at a distance like that I would never say I had the impression of a young guy. The audio to me also is intuitively the voice of a middle aged man; again, I would never get the impression of a young guy. If this person is ever caught, I expect him to be 50.

I'm conflicted on the age issue because while I "see" in the video and hear on the audio what seems to me like an older man...statistically speaking, abduction/murders like this are usually a young man's game. Research shows the typical offender in a case like the Delphi murders is around 27 years old. It's ideal to be at peak strength and reflexes if you're going to count on overpowering somebody. As murderers age into their 40s and 50s a lot of them slow down because they start to have some close calls with victims getting away or nearly doing so. And luckily for the rest of us, not many of them have such long careers because they get caught for earlier crimes. But a lot of the knowledge that's out there is about the behavior of younger murderers.

Now - I think if we ultimately find out BG IS in his later 40s or 50s, we may also discover that he committed earlier crimes that were radically different from Delphi in terms of victim selection and location. He may be changing over time to either make things easier on himself (going from older to younger victims, abduction from a trail vs a more populated area) or, conversely, to achieve a bigger thrill (two victims at once).

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm conflicted on the age issue because while I "see" in the video and hear on the audio what seems to me like an older man...statistically speaking, abduction/murders like this are usually a young man's game. Research shows the typical offender in a case like the Delphi murders is around 27 years old. It's ideal to be at peak strength and reflexes if you're going to count on overpowering somebody. As murderers age into their 40s and 50s a lot of them slow down because they start to have some close calls with victims getting away or nearly doing so. And luckily for the rest of us, not many of them have such long careers because they get caught for earlier crimes. But a lot of the knowledge that's out there is about the behavior of younger murderers.

Now - I think if we ultimately find out BG IS in his later 40s or 50s, we may also discover that he committed earlier crimes that were radically different from Delphi in terms of victim selection and location. He may be changing over time to either make things easier on himself (going from older to younger victims, abduction from a trail vs a more populated area) or, conversely, to achieve a bigger thrill (two victims at once).

Excellent speculations and reasoning.
I still keep ruminating on the two girls....and the potential of discovery in the open. This Perp had to have been attached to one of those two houses in some way...if only loosely. Knowing both weren't home....that has to be a fairly narrow group of suspects?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I like reading along.
I recall so much analysis on this guy that it made my head spin.

Is that a hat, or a full head of hair?
What's that, a billy club going down his right thigh, inside his jeans?
Does he have a leather work pouch?
That HAS to be a gun outline, say, his right side, inner jacket pocket!
Around his neck? A scarf? A drinking straw? A plastic bag? A grey hoodie stickin' out?
Does the dude have a limp? Or is he high steppin' the gaps between those ties?

And then there's the age thingy. This particular frame, for me, gives him a boyish look of say, 22 to 27 years old!

Then again, if I stare long enough at that head of hair, I begin to see a coon skin cap, maybe a fox head hat, or some such wild animal with a pointy nose looking back at me.

See that baby face or what?

Clic the pic to expand

Could be a bad wig as part of a disguise too.