Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. stattlich1

    stattlich1 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this has been discussed. 128 threads with 60, 70, or 80 pages each, just about every speculative thought and idea imaginable has been tossed about :D

    There appear to be several camps.

    One is the Serial Killer camp. BG knows the area, cases the area, maybe hangs out there from time to time, the girls were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Another is the stalking idea. The girls were in some kind of online conversation with the perp, or somebody that knew the perp. They were baited in to going to the bridge that day.

    Yet another is the idea that the girls stumbled upon some information that would be brutally detrimental to the killer. Someone in 'high' standing in the community perhaps. Hence, he murdered, or had them murdered, to save face.

    Another is that the girls were simply out for that adventurous walk, and stumbled upon some criminal activity right then and there, leading to them becoming victims, so as to cover up the speculative criminal act.

    I take LE at their word when they surmise the killer was, or had been, a resident, or very familiar with the Delphi/MHBridge area.

    Some days I think they were targeted, that a motive exists, be it retribution for a perceived slight, or knowledge of some criminal act/drug related, or knowledge of some important person, such as someone in LE, or a Judge, or Public School official, or Clergyman, having engaged in some nefarious activity.

    But this theory at times is difficult for me, as it would imply the killer knew the girls were going to be there that day, at that time. At times this avenue of thinking leads me to believe the girls had reason to meet someone at the bridge that day.

    Which leads me to bounce to the serial killer idea. A murderer who happens to have chosen this particular area due to prior familiarity. Seems plausible. But you see, I have doubts here too, because.....

    I think BG planted evidence at the crime scene, so as to mislead LE in their investigation. If not that, then it appears someone mislead LE in the beginning, as they went down a road of investigation that appears to have been the wrong path, changing 'direction' after 2 years.

    Or was it that they went down the wrong investigative path by happenstance, with no particular person causing them to do so?

    The point is, most ALL speculation one can dream up has been hashed, and re-hashed, over and over, on this site, and myriad others. It is truly an unsolved case that boggles the mind.

    I am sad for the families of these two girls. It is a tragic thing to be dealt in life. I hope the break comes that leads directly to the person, or persons, that murdered these innocent girls.

    :mad::mad::mad:
     
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  2. broadviewren

    broadviewren Well-Known Member

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    Deer aren't necessarily all that skittish. I live in a fairly busy neighborhood next to a large, forested park. Deer roam the neighborhood and aren't frightened by cars or people being around. They do usually prefer to keep some distance from people (like maybe a couple of yards or so) and don't like people making sudden moves towards them, but sounds don't tend to bother them. They've been in our yard with the neighbors' kids playing a few yards away next door, don't get spooked by barking dogs (although they will stare down a dog!) and they have walked up very close to my family -- within a couple of feet -- when we were in the yard or on the deck.
     
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  3. ScumbagTrav

    ScumbagTrav Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

    The deer thing has always bothered me for other reasons. I just dont know of any phone in 2017 that had any sort of zoom that would identify movement in the woods better than one's own eyes. Moreover, I don't get why one would stop to look at deer, through a phone screen, while looking for 2 missing girls, and after a shoe has been discovered.
    Just seems strange to me.

    Now I'm bothered in a whole different way. Shivers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2021
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  4. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    It is a bit odd, but some people live their lives almost exclusively through their phone screen.

    amateur opinion and speculation
     
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  5. pillywiggin

    pillywiggin Well-Known Member

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    MOO--My thought would be that by looking through the phone screen with the camera app on, one could zoom in on the deer and enlarge it to see it better. I often do that to get a better look at birds and other small critters when I'm out walking. If one was not sure if it were a deer, that might be an easy way to get a better look.
     
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  6. news buff

    news buff Well-Known Member

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    But would you be wanting a better look at a deer if you were searching for missing girls?
     
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  7. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    Are you talking about the trailhead to the start of the trails by FB or where the girls were dropped off ???
     
  8. pillywiggin

    pillywiggin Well-Known Member

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    MOO--If I were not sure what I was seeing, I would want to get a better look, and zooming in with the camera would allow me to do that.
     
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  9. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    If LE is still getting a high volume of tips each day, the tips are probably not all that useful. If sketch #2 is wrong, then I think there is a high likelihood that many of these tips are probably not very helpful.

    It is like looking through yearbooks. The only way that has even a remote chance of working is if you think either sketch 1 from July 2017 or sketch 2 from April 2019 are the correct description of the killer. No, a sketch is not a photograph but it has to be somewhat close to the actual description if you hope to get the right tip.

    There was a Forensic Files case called "Video Diary". A sketch was composed from a piece of grainy video surveillance. The right person, a former girlfriend, saw it and called police. But when you compare the sketch with the actual suspect in that case, it was close in description. This person ended up being the killer in that case.

    In this case, I do not think either sketch is close in description. Because of that, the right person is either going to have to try to identify the person from Liberty German's phone video through the video only, or the police are going to have to get lucky where through some circumstance like a link to another crime, they are able to find the suspect in this case.

    Or else all these tips they are getting in regards to sketches are probably not going to lead anywhere. If this case gets solved, it has that feeling that police are going to be very thankful Liberty German and Abigail Williams were able to get their murderer on video. Only time will tell...
     
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  10. UnapologeticallyAspie

    UnapologeticallyAspie Well-Known Member

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    My husband and I both use a magnifying glass app. Perhaps they were using something of the like.
     
  11. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think we must remember the searchers had absolutely no reason to assume they were searching for bodies. At worst it was probably expected the girls might’ve been injured. If a searcher saw movement high up on the ridge, to zoom in using a cellphone camera would seem to me to be a practical means of determining what was causing it.
     
  12. UnapologeticallyAspie

    UnapologeticallyAspie Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, most definitely.
    I have family that lives in Indiana, some very close to Delphi. All of them sound like BG. Well all the males anyway.
    M00.
     
  13. news buff

    news buff Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! Would like to know what movie they watched that night too.
     
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  14. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger Well-Known Member

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    It's quite dark on that side. Shocked the heck out of me. I couldn't make out anything even while standing in the middle of the creek bed. There's some combination of the higher bank on that side, somewhat more dense tree cover, and especially the slope in the background that makes it completely different than the visibility on the bridge side of the creek.

    I doubt the searcher saw deer. He saw motion of some type. That prompted him to check via phone and zoom. That's when he realized they were deer. And then he looked down and saw the bodies.

    The deer would be completely comfortable, basically not aware of humans at all. They are separated by a fairly wide creek and lounging around in the tree cover just like any other day at noon. But once the searchers descended on that side then the deer would have sensed atypical and gotten out of there.

    This is a bit awkward but I wonder what deer do when they see humans in that condition? Do they approach and check for signs of life? Fortunately it was deer and not vicious carnivores. It was actually about 3 months after these murders when reports surfaced for the first time of deer perhaps eating human carcass. But it was disputed because the skeleton had been there 6 months or so, had already been taken apart by carnivores, and the deer in photographs may simply have been playing with the human bone instead of nibbling on it.
     
  15. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    This case is probably not going to get solved until police go in a different direction from the 2nd sketch and look outside of Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding area in their investigation. Or police get lucky with some DNA match or other crime link is another way it could get solved. It could be that LE started down the wrong path in their investigation back in February 2017 and that is why the case is still unsolved.

    Even with other cases that have remained unsolved for a long time, I wonder if the reason they remained unsolved was because the investigation started in the wrong direction to begin with?
     
  16. ShamelessObserver

    ShamelessObserver Well-Known Member

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    Can I just ask:

    • Did the killer walk on the bridge BEHIND where the girls were (hill side), or did he walk allll the way along it whilst in view of them from the opposite side?
    • Are there any theories or information about what was so specific about the scene?
    • Did any witnesses see the killer that day either before or after the crime?
    • Is there 100% only ONE killer?

    I've only just found out about the case recently so apologies if this is all old info...
     
  17. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    "Old BG" especially gave myself and many others subjective authority vibes.

    These subjective vibes were strengthned by the available conversation from BG. BG does not appear to engage in a preliminary conversation where he builds up confidence to give the girls an order. Rather, he appears to start with an order- as if he is accustomed to giving them and to being obeyed.

    As a result, the ideas of law enforcement experience, teacher, coach, retired military (combat arms in particular), church youth minister, foreman etc have been proposed.

    Going very subjective, the old BG vaguely seems to "own the space" he enters (confident stride up to the victims, but not a swagger. Then asserts control with out shouting or threats) This can also indicate a dominate personality.

    I have seen retired combat NCOs, law enforcement, and well, inmates with that ability. Usually the last groups has nothing in common with the first two. All three, however, live in environments where it helps to have assertive personalities.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  18. sandy_80

    sandy_80 Well-Known Member

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    you will be a little frustrated as we have almost nothing known about the case except the recorded evidence..

    1/ as one girl was filming the other he comes in view behind her.. so he was opposite
    2/ le tells you its a strange odd scene with signatures .. and not what you expect.. ppl theorize its unusually violent .
    3/ there are two sketches so he was allegedly seen..two witnesses or 3 might have seen him before the crime.. there are lots of confusion though about whos who ...and which sketch is bg so you have to dig yourself

    4/ le is looking for one killer as the recording show one killer but they dont exclude an accomplice
     
  19. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    The word “guys” could’ve been spoken to gain the attention of the two teens who otherwise weren’t paying any attention to him. If so, that’s definitely not specific to any instructional-orientated profession. I hadn’t noticed that LE has ever conclusively connected “guys” and “down the hill” together in one single phrase.
    JMO
     
  20. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it is entirely possible that we dont have the whole conversation. Likewise, it is very hard at ascertain personality from a few seconds of video. Any speculation about personality is going to be subjective.

    I do, however, think the "Guys- down the hill" should be seen as one continous phrase unless there is evidence to the contrary.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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