Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Some posts have been removed as off topic. Hopefully the following clarifies.

For those enquiring about the use of initials, reference is made in TOS under Name Calling and Derogatory Name Variations by simply stating "Initials may be used, and are encouraged".

There are rules and then there are policies. WS policy is to NOT use full names so that the names of innocent people are not forever etched in stone on a crime sleuthing website when they may have had nothing to do with the actual crime. It could also have potential legal ramifications that nobody needs. The policy has been that we can use full names for a victim and a POI/suspect who has been officially named by LE but for most others we use initials. It is a matter of discretion and WSers have been adhering to that policy for about 20 years now and it has served us well, so it is very possible for members to get used to it. If we can get to know members by their anonymous user IDs such as 1973Aplus8, surely we can get used to initials used throughout a specific case.

Example: One thread some of us are familiar with, a person not only self-identified, but also stated they knew they were a POI although LE had not named them as such. That highly qualified person subsequently reported they were having difficulty getting employment because their name was showing up to potential employers in google searches connected to discussion of a horrific murder.

This is Thread #123 for Abby and Libby and we've have done alright so far. If someone wants to complete the list of initials and abbreviations, please submit it to us via private message and we will include it in future Opening Posts. Otherwise, please stay on topic in this thread.

If you have questions, please do not discuss them on the thread so we don't derail the thread with off topic conversation. You may private message a Mod or Admin for clarification.

Thanks.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Other than a similarity to the Delphi sketch, there is no indication from LE that Martrell Weaver is considered a POI or suspect in the murders of Libby and Abby. We've been down this road before where there are similarities between sketches and other individuals but there ends up being no connection.

Please do not continue to discuss him unless/until we find out that LE is investigating him as a POI or suspect in relation to the Delphi case.

As usual, members may sleuth behind the scenes and discuss via private messaging where up to 20 members can be added to the private conversation. Just don't post your findings on this public thread.

If there is any change, we will review it if/when that happens.

Thanks.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is becoming rife with rumor posts and creating extra work for our Moderators in having to review and trying to determine what is known fact and what is rumor.

RUMORS ARE NOT ALLOWED.

If you can't link information to Websleuths approves sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

This is Websleuths folks. Take time to do your homework. Please don't just throw stuff out there. Before you post something make doubly sure what you are stating is FACT as we know it from MSM, LE or another approved Websleuths source.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

Basic Websleuths folks .. no social media rumors ! Sometimes they're right, most times they're wrong.

If members want to talk about it in private messaging, that's one thing, but please don't bring rumors to WS.

Thanks.

 

[Angels27]

Wow I just listened to PC 2 from 2017 AGAIN and rewound it and again and DC does NOT say BG with the goatee is the killer, only that the one whose voice we hear on the recording and is the same as the guy on Bridge saying down the hill. He does, however, say that for sure the new sketch of YG (which is actually the first sketch they did supposedly but never released) IS the person responsible for the murders. He isn’t saying BG and YG are the same person. WOW. I wonder if there were 2 people involved! Does anyone know if DC ever answered the question directly regarding if they thought BG and YG are the SAME person?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Barbieshell]

Wow I just listened to PC 2 from 2017 AGAIN and rewound it and again and DC does NOT say BG with the goatee is the killer, only that the one whose voice we hear on the recording and is the same as the guy on Bridge saying down the hill. He does, however, say that for sure the new sketch of YG (which is actually the first sketch they did supposedly but never released) IS the person responsible for the murders. He isn’t saying BG and YG are the same person. WOW. I wonder if there were 2 people involved! Does anyone know if DC ever answered the question directly regarding if they thought BG and YG are the SAME person?

Thanks in advance.

People have mentioned this 2 person angle, I honestly don't believe it. I think it was just 1 random sick and someone has got themselves confused somewhere.

 

[Angels27]

I would so much like to know where the witness that is the originator of the younger looking sketch saw him and what he was wearing at the time.


I don’t have the answers to your questions but I believe they lie somewhere in Carter’s words on the 2019 PC: “For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have”.

OMG, I bet “the different investigative strategy” is 2 PERPS! One lured down the hill, and one actually did the killing, maybe. That would explain the polar opposite looks of BG and YG. I listened closely again to PC 2 and DC never says BG is the killer only that his voice said “Down the hill,” but he did say, YG IS the killer!
That would explain the unique statement “shifting gears to a different investigative strategy.”

 

[Barbieshell]

OMG, I bet “the different investigative strategy” is 2 PERPS! One lured down the hill, and one actually did the killing, maybe. That would explain the polar opposite looks of BG and YG. I listened closely again to PC 2 and DC never says BG is the killer only that his voice said “Down the hill,” but he did say, YG IS the killer!
That would explain the unique statement “shifting gears to a different investigative strategy.”

2 killers = 2 people that have to keep their gobs shut.....you know that's doubtful both would keep their mouths shut for the last 4 years ? I mean it's possible but highly improbable.

 

[GreyGardens]

AR - William Robert Ice, 38, killed by LE during NC child abduction case, Lonoke, 21 February 2021

Scroll down to side-by-side pictures

While I don't think he's BG (looking into his past crimes through the years, his big thing seems to be grooming and getting into relationships with young girls which is obviously illegal and is rape. Glad he won't be able to ruin any more lives), but seeing that pic of him makes me think that is very similar to how, IMO, I expect BG will look when captured. Right in between the two sketches, not too young but not too old. Pretty normal looking guy who would blend in. Lets go, 2021, be our year!!

 

[Angels27]

Wow I just listened to PC 2 from 2017 AGAIN and rewound it and again and DC does NOT say BG with the goatee is the killer, only that the one whose voice we hear on the recording and is the same as the guy on Bridge saying down the hill. He does, however, say that for sure the new sketch of YG (which is actually the first sketch they did supposedly but never released) IS the person responsible for the murders. He isn’t saying BG and YG are the same person. WOW. I wonder if there were 2 people involved! Does anyone know if DC ever answered the question directly regarding if they thought BG and YG are the SAME person?

Thanks in advance.

Btw, I also recall in some interview LE saying something like we believe this person “participated in the crime.” I thought that was weird and definitely hints at more than 1 person. I’ve actually heard that statement a few times from LE in the media.

 

[JnRyan]

Just too many blank spots for me to settle on some things. Like is he a serial killer? Either in the HLN broadcast or the YouTube video where the HLN hosts talk about the case they mention using the FBI's ViCAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program). ViCAP is not even utilized by a majority of LE agencies, so this guy could have killed using a similar signature and a search of ViCAP would not turn up anything. Trying to control two victims, in a public place (e.g., not inside a private residence) and during the day almost makes me think he had the confidence he could do this. How? One obvious thought is that he has killed before, but where it was easier to conceal his actions from others and it was a single victim? Of course, he could have rehearsed this over and over in his mind and during a walk in that area or similar area and he drew his confidence from there. It didn't likely take him very long as he had probably confronted the girls around 2:20-2:30 PM (my estimate) and killed them before Liberty's father called around 3:00 PM. He did it quickly because he has done it before?

In addition to checking other murders I hope LE has checked into what might be botched abduction attempts. That is, this guy tried to do this before but using his vehicle or from another type of location like a mall parking lot. IOW, he figures this didn't work I need to try something else. Jesse Matthew killed two girls, Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham in Virginia, but years earlier he attempted to rape another woman and this attempt failed. Even if such a person wasn't caught there might be other information such a description or a vehicle used.

Of course, another of the possibilities I've thought of is if his victim(s), previously or subsequently, are only listed as missing and LE hasn't found them in order to make the connection. This guy could have killed before, but only single victims. Also, just because he killed two young girls here doesn't mean that matches the type he has gone after before. Robert Brashers first known victim was a 28 yo woman in SC and two of his subsequent known victims were girls younger than 15.

 

[Angels27]

2 killers = 2 people that have to keep their gobs shut.....you know that's doubtful both would keep their mouths shut for the last 4 years ? I mean it's possible but highly improbable.

It’s interesting u say that, bc I was just thinking the opposite. Maybe they are thick as theives, maybe related or something. Maybe have dirt on the other or something. You know how when you have a secret to tell that’s too hard to keep in (usually with normal people it’s something good like an engagement, or new job or something, etc) it’s always good if you can tell it to one person and then you don’t have to spell it to the whole world or hint at it to others. Maybe that’s why they’ve been so quiet bc they actually have another to share it with. Their co-conspirator and that’s why it hasn’t gotten out in four years.

 

[ReadySet]

I keep forgetting that the video of BG was taken what, 60 feet away? (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) So the picture we see is zoomed in and very pixelated. I have to keep reminding myself of that when I think I'm sure of what I see regarding BG.

yeah you’re right.

I just rewatched PC 2 from 2017 and DC is saying for sure that BG IS the killer and that YG sketch 2 is also the BG/killer. Wow. How can it be the same person? They looks so different in every way possible.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

What’s interesting (to put it one way) is that the supposed eyewitness and source of young guy sketch says she saw some guy on trail or bridge, or who knows where she supposedly saw him, claims the guy had a hat scarf red hair etc etc and the sketch of young guy is nothing like that. The sketch of young guy is NOTHING like BG either which is the only REAL evidence we have. BG has what looks like a dark goatee, hat, and you cannot see if he has curly hair or not like YG sketch. So where did young guy sketch really come from. They are telling us to ignore the first sketch they released which looks way more like BG and to only consider young guy sketch now. What happened to BG all of a sudden!? he’s no longer in the picture?! are we supposed to completely ignore that video that is right before our eyes of an old short fat guy with a goatee whose body and movements way more clearly match the voice? And they say BG is the killer, right? Wth is going on????

I’m really starting to think there might be 2 people involved. No way is YG sketch the guy on the bridge. No way is the guy on the bridge YG sketch. and we know what BG looks like and we know what he sounds like, so they might know who he is maybe but they’re just looking for the other younger guy?

Firstly, I will say that I don’t necessarily believe anybody at the trails saw the killer that day. Who gave the information for the young guy sketch, no one knows. Where and when and what that person saw they thought needed reporting, we don’t know.
Secondly, something I think people fail to realize about the video on the bridge are the very severe shadows brought on by the sun’s angle. Add into that the poor quality of the image. If you look at the video almost frame by frame you will see the shadow shift dramatically and sometimes disappear between frames. The goatee we all thought we saw in the still photo for two years, disappears in many video frames. I think it’s a shadow. After being conditioned for two years to see the older guy, it was hard to let it go, but I now believe the younger sketch is closer to the guy on the bridge. The question then becomes, why did LE allow us to believe BG was an older guy for two years.
My thoughts. My theory of what happened is what I referenced earlier.

 

[Angels27]

such a filthy, disgusting ,pointless, meaningless crime...he will be executed in the State of Indiana...he shouldn't have killed there...mistake number one...caught on camera...mistake number two...caught on audio..mistake number three.

thats a whole lot right there..wonder what other mistakes he made?

I also wonder why they don't connect Evansdale. Maybe its because they cant make sense of how he would find another set of such similar victims in the short amount of time he seems to have been in the park...but what is the chance of a killer of children coming up on a pair of girls out for a bike ride and managing to take the girls, murder them and leave them miles from where they were abducted?

the criminologists on HLN seem as though they are looking at the simplest scenario.

loner killer
knows the area
random female victims
maybe first time
ran away through the woods
the publicity of the case has kept him from acting again.

A Boogie Man..

really it could be, but I just think there is more to it..it takes a really specific kind of criminal illness to murder two little girls...then the similarity of the areas, the demographic, processing plants and bridge areas...and the fact that all of the victims were left outside near water. coincidence?

I don't know, they know more about criminals than we do, but I feel like its the same killer and I cant let go. mOO

Wow. How common are meat processing plants in the Midwest. Are there a lot of them? Did they ever find the killer from evansdale? I assume they have DNA from both cases to match up.

 

[Angels27]

yeah you’re right.

I just rewatched PC 2 from 2017 and DC is saying for sure that BG IS the killer and that YG sketch 2 is also the BG/killer. Wow. How can it be the same person? They looks so different in every way possible.

Correction. DC did not say in this PC that BG is or is not the killer. Only that he is the person on bridge saying down the hill. I listened to PC again. He only said that YG is the killer and their new suspect.

 

[Angels27]

plus eliminates males in Delphi assuming they all complied and gave dna

Wow, Did they ask every guy in that town to give DNA? if so that would be great. I didn’t know they did that.

 

[Beachlife926]

I just listened to another case (from 1973) where LE had a suspect but didn’t have enough to connect him to crime scene or victim with physical evidence, so he went to trial. Even though he was never named as a suspect it was a high profile case so the media and public were out of hand and were aware of him. When the trial is about to start his lawyer asked the judge to set rules for media where they couldn’t officially name him as a suspect because it could taint the jury and prevent him from getting a fair and impartial trial.

I mentioned it since it seems both cases are high profile where media and public was heavily invested.
ETR last sentence

 

[Jax49]

Replays of Down the Hill starting on Headline News now (7 eastern).