Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #133

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Shamrock1

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Didn’t LE state something to the effect of “everyone will be shocked” when he’s caught? I interpreted that to mean (1) the killer is a “pillar of the community” type, (2) killer is a teacher/coach - someone generally trusted, or (3) a close relative to those. Please correct me if I’m mistaken.
 

Inthedetails

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Didn’t LE state something to the effect of “everyone will be shocked” when he’s caught? I interpreted that to mean (1) the killer is a “pillar of the community” type, (2) killer is a teacher/coach - someone generally trusted, or (3) a close relative to those. Please correct me if I’m mistaken.
I took it to mean that BG was someone "normal" who you wouldn't expect of such a heinous crime.

I never thought pillar of community, but "regular Joe."

jmo

edited to add: I did at one point suspect a pastor-type, but not a mainstream pastor so not really a "pillar" as most pastors are considered.
 

sandy_80

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It could have to do with Abby voicing that she/they should leave the spot they were? Her Mom says Abby wanted to move on away and Libby said in response that they couldn't because the trail ended there.

So maybe Kelsei was thinking along those lines...Abby wanting to leave in the seconds before BG got to them but she stayed? Just a thought.

that doesnt make her a hero though.. does it ?
the family did hear more audio so they would know more about it
 

sleuther0192837465

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Hey everyone:) Bringing something here that I would like to discuss. I apologize for posting it elsewhere. I have never forgotten this and I do feel it’s relevant. https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...i-search-into-southeastern-tennessee-counties
Tennessee sheriff corrects statement, says Delphi suspect not seen in the state
From article dated Jan. 15, 2018
BLEDSOE COUNTY, Tenn. -- A Facebook post from a Tennessee sheriff led to confusion Monday about the search for a suspect in the murders of two Delphi, Indiana teens.
MOO: There is a photo, within the article of the original Facebook post that was removed shortly after it was posted. LE came back quickly and rebuffed it, saying the search was nationwide. I had always found it curious that it was so quickly removed. I do believe there is a connection between BG and Tennessee.
 

Charlot123

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that doesnt make her a hero though.. does it ?
the family did hear more audio so they would know more about it

i don’t care if they are heroes or not. It is sort of misleading. I think they were great girls with the future that was taken away, so cruelly, from them. And they had to die in horror. And they were denied any last rites, confessions, last word. (Even when serial killers are executed, they are treated humanely, with good meals and a chaplain. Their victims get horror, and death, this is all).

i think that they might be the archetypes of all the victims of all trail murderers. Because of them, we know how the victims’ last moments can be, because with what they left, it is somehow immortalized. We might imagine better the victims of Bundy, Keys and any unnamed Jane Does buried somewhere.

And to me, the BG is the archetype of the killer as well. In my world, there is no forgiveness, and no amount of killer’s prayers can change it.
 

Beachlife926

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FWIW I noticed an older guy at the park (hat and reg glasses) with a toddler who I never saw before. He was acting “normal” but I was still alert so I imagined how I would describe him if needed (40-50 feet away). When he left the park I got a closer view (15-20 feet) and from a diff angle then I realized my description was the same but my age was way off and he was probably in low 20’s IMO

I’m sticking to this thread. The other one is interesting but with Facebook involved, I just can’t seem to follow the rules (sorry mods) :(
 
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zencompass

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February 11, 2021:
CBS4 Indy:

"Jay Abbott, retired special agent in charge of the FBI's Indianapolis division, says Abby and Libby's killer left a signature behind, things only the killer would know, which will eventually help identify him. Abbott is convinced someone else knows who this killer is, and he hopes that person will have the courage to come forward."


At 4:50 Video Time, Jay Abbott speaks about evidence at the crime scene (that they don't talk about) but which points to a "signature" left at the crime scene. Perhaps the "signature" (some L.E. have said "signatures" in plural) will point to an individual soon!
 

Nancy1954

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The question of what the girls say and what the man says in the gap between "guys" and "down the hill" was extensively discussed in the previous thread and I can see that the idea that the girls were screaming or in some way responding to him is ramping up in replies in this current thread again.

Of course no one here has heard the full unedited version of the audio, however one person who has, Abby's mom, has told us what she heard when she listened. This is from about 20 minutes into the Jason Hebert interview with her:

Interviewer: So they released first the “down the hill” and then the “guys.” I’ve heard some people saying it was altogether one sentence, I’ve heard people saying it wasn’t, what do we know? Because I’ve heard all different things, I want to hear it from you.

AW: There is less than a 3 second gap in Guys down the hill…. There’s not long minutes of pause, there is seconds of pause.

Interviewer: Could the girls have been responding and they muted it out?

AW: I don’t think it was that. Rude as it sounds, it was the typical teenager, “Huh? What? Hm?” There's a brief half second pause…


I understand that this is a forum for speculation but here we have a primary and credible source telling us exactly what happened in the unedited gap - a teenage thing, a "huh?" Or "what?" in response to "Guys". I don't understand why AW is not believed on this point or why people disregard it in favor of more dramatic ideas (that there is no evidence for).

We beg for more info but when someone as close to the case as a victim's mom gives it to us we say "No, I actually think it happened this other way."

Respectfully Yemelyan.. I have no quarrel with what Abby's mom has said, nor any reason to doubt it. The only reason I brought up the noise that was between the words "guys" and "down the hill" was because in my opinion it was LE that has caused some of us to get 'stuck' on why that noise was even put there. Don't you think that putting nothing between those words would have been the best idea? What can be expected to happen when there is that sound between those words? If it was indeed the girls saying something as simple as.."huh?" or whatever.. fine. As we can now see.. LE could have and should have put nothing there at all. I'll leave it at that. JMO
 

Finlay

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I hadn't been following this case very closely at all until a recent event immediately made me think of it. So now I've been reviewing discussion & media threads here and trying to get up to speed. There's one detail though that I'm still not clear on. Forgive me if this has been discussed at length already but, did LE ever clearly state whether or not they found DNA known to positively be from the killer at the crime scene. It seems that it was initially said that they did, but then a deputy made a "clarifying statement" of some kind that basically said they did not actually say that. And to further confuse the issue, no LEOs after that would clearly state if they did or did not find DNA evidence from the killer. ...so it seemed like it was a detail left purposely unclear. (At least that was what I took away after an hour or so of rereading some of the original old threads on this.) I'm hoping they eventually answered the question but I haven't found reference to it if they did. Can anyone clarify that for me?
 

Yemelyan

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Respectfully Yemelyan.. I have no quarrel with what Abby's mom has said, nor any reason to doubt it. The only reason I brought up the noise that was between the words "guys" and "down the hill" was because in my opinion it was LE that has caused some of us to get 'stuck' on why that noise was even put there. Don't you think that putting nothing between those words would have been the best idea? What can be expected to happen when there is that sound between those words? If it was indeed the girls saying something as simple as.."huh?" or whatever.. fine. As we can now see.. LE could have and should have put nothing there at all. I'll leave it at that. JMO

Respectfully, I'm not an audio technician so I have no idea what the best course of action would have been, but I have the feeling that some of what is heard in between "guys" and "down the hill" is artifact from the conditions on the bridge (wind, etc) and the phone being muffled against clothing and not something edited in. However, I do agree with LE if they tried, as AW said they did, to remove the girls' voices in order to focus attention on the male voice in the clip.
 

TTF14

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FWIW I noticed an older guy at the park (hat and reg glasses) with a toddler who I never saw before. He was acting “normal” but I was still alert so I imagined how I would describe him if needed (40-50 feet away). When he left the park I got a closer view (15-20 feet) and from a diff angle then I realized my description was the same but my age was way off and he was probably in low 20’s IMO

I’m sticking to this thread. The other one is interesting but with Facebook involved, I just can’t seem to follow the rules (sorry mods) :(

Very interesting.
 

TTF14

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Respectfully, I'm not an audio technician so I have no idea what the best course of action would have been, but I have the feeling that some of what is heard in between "guys" and "down the hill" is artifact from the conditions on the bridge (wind, etc) and the phone being muffled against clothing and not something edited in. However, I do agree with LE if they tried, as AW said they did, to remove the girls' voices in order to focus attention on the male voice in the clip.

The "in between" noise sounds exactly like what I hear on my doorbell camera when I listen to it on a breezy day.
 

Yemelyan

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I hadn't been following this case very closely at all until a recent event immediately made me think of it. So now I've been reviewing discussion & media threads here and trying to get up to speed. There's one detail though that I'm still not clear on. Forgive me if this has been discussed at length already but, did LE ever clearly state whether or not they found DNA known to positively be from the killer at the crime scene. It seems that it was initially said that they did, but then a deputy made a "clarifying statement" of some kind that basically said they did not actually say that. And to further confuse the issue, no LEOs after that would clearly state if they did or did not find DNA evidence from the killer. ...so it seemed like it was a detail left purposely unclear. (At least that was what I took away after an hour or so of rereading some of the original old threads on this.) I'm hoping they eventually answered the question but I haven't found reference to it if they did. Can anyone clarify that for me?

This was evidently purposely left unconfirmed by LE. Until recently they would not comment about the quantity, quality, or provenance of DNA though they would say things like "at every crime scene, you will find DNA." Recently, reporters with an HLN documentary asked TL, the Carroll County sheriff, if LE has DNA from this crime and do they know if it belongs to the perpetrator. His answer was that they do have (so far, unmatched) DNA but they do not know if it belongs to the perpetrator.
 

MistyWaters

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Hey everyone:) Bringing something here that I would like to discuss. I apologize for posting it elsewhere. I have never forgotten this and I do feel it’s relevant. https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...i-search-into-southeastern-tennessee-counties
Tennessee sheriff corrects statement, says Delphi suspect not seen in the state
From article dated Jan. 15, 2018
BLEDSOE COUNTY, Tenn. -- A Facebook post from a Tennessee sheriff led to confusion Monday about the search for a suspect in the murders of two Delphi, Indiana teens.
MOO: There is a photo, within the article of the original Facebook post that was removed shortly after it was posted. LE came back quickly and rebuffed it, saying the search was nationwide. I had always found it curious that it was so quickly removed. I do believe there is a connection between BG and Tennessee.

IIRC there was also a video that goes with this. The Bledsoe County police department received a police bulletin from Carroll County. They didn’t realize the same bulletin had been sent to every police department across the nation. They thought it had only been sent to their County and the bulletin was indicating the suspect was within their jurisdiction. Seemed like an honest mistake to me by a junior officer or employee. I didn’t think anything more can be read into it considering more than 3 years have passed and a New Direction has occurred since that time. JMO
 

Finlay

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This was evidently purposely left unconfirmed by LE. Until recently they would not comment about the quantity, quality, or provenance of DNA though they would say things like "at every crime scene, you will find DNA." Recently, reporters with an HLN documentary asked TL, the Carroll County sheriff, if LE has DNA from this crime and do they know if it belongs to the perpetrator. His answer was that they do have (so far, unmatched) DNA but they do not know if it belongs to the perpetrator.
Thanks for the reply! So even if LE does have a DNA sample on record for the killer (say from some other prior unrelated incarceration or something), it possibly wouldn't match this sample collected if the sample collected did not actually come from the killer. ...that's exactly what I was wondering. I wish they were more certain about the DNA they have.
 

Yemelyan

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Thanks for the reply! So even if LE does have a DNA sample on record for the killer (say from some other prior unrelated incarceration or something), it possibly wouldn't match this sample collected if the sample collected did not actually come from the killer. ...that's exactly what I was wondering. I wish they were more certain about the DNA they have.

That's correct. The unmatched sample that they have could be from (for example) a totally innocent person who touched the sweatshirt worn by one of them at some earlier point in time. The outerwear were borrowed from another person and had been stored in the back of a car that, I'm assuming, may have transported different individuals from school, work, etc.

Many people who follow this case also have considered that the sample they have could be partial. If LE do not have the full 13-20 DNA loci that are used by CODIS, but only, for example, 9 of them to compare, they will in effect have too many hits on their sample. It would include hundreds or thousands of people, making it not useful for direct matching; however, it still could be used to exclude individuals who do not match the partial sample that they have. Indiana does not allow familial matching in criminal databases at this point in time so if they have only a partial they are not going to be able to generate close matches from what they do have.
 

sunshineray

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The question of what the girls say and what the man says in the gap between "guys" and "down the hill" was extensively discussed in the previous thread and I can see that the idea that the girls were screaming or in some way responding to him is ramping up in replies in this current thread again.

Of course no one here has heard the full unedited version of the audio, however one person who has, Abby's mom, has told us what she heard when she listened. This is from about 20 minutes into the Jason Hebert interview with her:

Interviewer: So they released first the “down the hill” and then the “guys.” I’ve heard some people saying it was altogether one sentence, I’ve heard people saying it wasn’t, what do we know? Because I’ve heard all different things, I want to hear it from you.

AW: There is less than a 3 second gap in Guys down the hill…. There’s not long minutes of pause, there is seconds of pause.

Interviewer: Could the girls have been responding and they muted it out?

AW: I don’t think it was that. Rude as it sounds, it was the typical teenager, “Huh? What? Hm?” There's a brief half second pause…


I understand that this is a forum for speculation but here we have a primary and credible source telling us exactly what happened in the unedited gap - a teenage thing, a "huh?" Or "what?" in response to "Guys". I don't understand why AW is not believed on this point or why people disregard it in favor of more dramatic ideas (that there is no evidence for).

We beg for more info but when someone as close to the case as a victim's mom gives it to us we say "No, I actually think it happened this other way."
I think I must have missed that discussion because in reading Anna's words here I don't recall ever reading them before. What would LE's reason for inserting such unpleasant sounds in a very short space of time where the girls just said, huh, what? I can understand them removing their voices but not with filling the space with anything but silence. That just seems weird and makes me wonder why LE techs were told to do that?
 
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