Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tricia

Owner Websleuths.com
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2003
Messages
27,853
Reaction score
38,250
Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below


HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19
delphi-suspect-sketch-ht-jef-190422_hpEmbed_5x6_992.jpg



HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.


Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to [email protected]

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.


Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

Thread #99 Thread #100 Thread #101 Thread #102 Thread #103 Thread #104 Thread #105 Thread #106 Thread #107 Thread #108 Thread #109 Thread #110 Thread #111 Thread #112 Thread #113 Thread #114 Thread #115 Thread #116 Thread #117 Thread #118 Thread #119 Thread #120Thread #121 Thread #122 Thread #123 Thread #124 Thread #125 Thread #126 Thread #127 Thread #128 Thread #129 Thread #130 Thread #131 Thread #132 Thread #133


Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*

IMAGE Discussion Thread

Scanner Thread

Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION

DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sillybilly

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
32,789
Reaction score
86,628
ADMIN NOTE:

Theorizing based on some known fact sourced from MSM or LE is fine, but there is no known fact to substantiate speculation about catfishing. Please move on from that discussion.

Also, a few reminders from TOS:

It is WS preferred policy to use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just private message a Mod or Admin for clarification.

Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

Before you post something make sure what you are stating is FACT as we know it from MSM, LE or another approved Websleuths source.

Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons are not allowed.
 

Ozoner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
3,926
Reaction score
14,330
Reading about the alleged 1960’s serial killer John Norman Collins, it’s kind of amazing how little they had to go on back then, most of it is circumstantial.
Collins was only charged with one murder, last in a string of seven, that was tied to hair trimmings on the victim’s clothing.
He was house sitting for his uncle who was state police, they had cut the kids hair in the basement before going on vacation. Even blood evidence was only matched by type back them. Matching blood “type O” and hair analysis (used for the first time in this case) was all the hard evidence they had.
Most of the evidence was circumstantial things like witnesses saying they saw the victim on his motorcycle the last day she was seen.
Most evidence is circumstantial, including much very strong evidence.

Even the blood on the basement floor would be considered circumstantial evidence.

Circumstantial evidence s often more reliable than direct evidence—i.e. testimony by an eyewitness to a crime—because eyewitnesses are notorious for misidentifying suspects.
 

everybodhi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
3,778
Reaction score
16,306
Most evidence is circumstantial, including much very strong evidence.

Even the blood on the basement floor would be considered circumstantial evidence.

Circumstantial evidence s often more reliable than direct evidence—i.e. testimony by an eyewitness to a crime—because eyewitnesses are notorious for misidentifying suspects.
Yes but in the 60’s, John Norman Collins victim’s type O blood (allegedly) was in the basement of his State LE officer uncle’s house and JNC had the only key to the house while the family vacationed in another state. His uncle refused to tell the defense if anyone in his immediate family had type O, creating doubt in the circumstantial evidence.
In 2021, they would run a DNA match on the blood to match it to the victim, turning it from circumstantial to hard evidence.
 

Falling Down

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2016
Messages
1,977
Reaction score
10,720
Video by a YouTube user posted a few months before the murders, it shows the main Monon Trail, which is a railroad right-of-way abandoned around 30 years ago, and the Monon High Bridge over Deer Creek. Most of the video of the area involving the murders is towards the end of this video:

 
Last edited:

Ozoner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
3,926
Reaction score
14,330
Yes but in the 60’s, John Norman Collins victim’s type O blood (allegedly) was in the basement of his State LE officer uncle’s house and JNC had the only key to the house while the family vacationed in another state. His uncle refused to tell the defense if anyone in his immediate family had type O, creating doubt in the circumstantial evidence.
In 2021, they would run a DNA match on the blood to match it to the victim, turning it from circumstantial to hard evidence.
No, it would still be circumstantial evidence. I don't think you understand what is meant by circumstantial evidence. "Hard evidence" is not a term used in formal discussions of evidence. Evidence is either circumstantial or direct. Very few things qualify as direct evidence: eyewitness testimony to a crime and video of a crime being committed are about it.
 

everybodhi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
3,778
Reaction score
16,306
No, it would still be circumstantial evidence. I don't think you understand what is meant by circumstantial evidence. "Hard evidence" is not a term used in formal discussions of evidence. Evidence is either circumstantial or direct. Very few things qualify as direct evidence: eyewitness testimony to a crime and video of a crime being committed are about it.
Perhaps there’s a misunderstanding that I was trying to make a point, or an argument, regarding semantics or legal terminology of types of evidence in a formal discussion.
I believe a DNA match which is precise to only one single person carries much more weight as evidence in a criminal investigation than “blood type O”, which matches to over a third of the population.
Hair analysis that was first used in the 60’s in a murder conviction has now been discredited.
Going back to my original post and the point I was trying to make that seems to have been lost here; we have come a long way since the 60’s and have more, and better, investigative tools to gather evidence to solve cases and bring them to a trial than they had in the 60’s. JMO
 

mekeritrig

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
112
Reaction score
1,902
I think that the digging into JBC's background has pretty much been exhausted at this point and the only thing's that are gonna change the situation going forward would be the production of an alibi by someone he knew (gf/employer/relative) or the police giving an update that he's being investigated as a suspect or the police tamping down the speculation like they've done when speaking about previous persons of interest.

There's no direct or circumstantial evidence that's been publicly found or reported on linking JBC to the Delphi case so far, so I'd be cautious about getting too invested in the idea that he's the killer.
 

GA_Peach

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
918
Reaction score
845
I found the link to the presser where DC indicates that BG might strike again. Here is what he says [to BG], "Who's next? I hate to ask you that question. I'd give my life to not have to. But I know that you have asked yourself that very question." That can be heard in minutes 11:00-11:20 in the below video. This struck me so much the first time I heard it. I wondered at the time if the video/audio indicated or referenced some other crimes.... or maybe it was the crime scene itself.

Another interesting quote from the PC, "This is a classic example of evil lives amongst us." I find this interesting only in light of the later PC on April 22 where The Shack is referenced. [Minute 5;43]

WNDU on Facebook Watch (Feb. 22, 2017 PC)
 

margarita25

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
49,396
Reaction score
192,326
BBM:
I think that the digging into JBC's background has pretty much been exhausted at this point and the only thing's that are gonna change the situation going forward would be the production of an alibi by someone he knew (gf/employer/relative) or the police giving an update that he's being investigated as a suspect or the police tamping down the speculation like they've done when speaking about previous persons of interest.

There's no direct or circumstantial evidence that's been publicly found or reported on linking JBC to the Delphi case so far, so I'd be cautious about getting too invested in the idea that he's the killer.

We’re just getting started lol.
(Eta: As is LE, I’m sure, jmo.)
 

SkylarSid

East Coast
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Messages
653
Reaction score
7,646
I think that the digging into JBC's background has pretty much been exhausted at this point and the only thing's that are gonna change the situation going forward would be the production of an alibi by someone he knew (gf/employer/relative) or the police giving an update that he's being investigated as a suspect or the police tamping down the speculation like they've done when speaking about previous persons of interest.

There's no direct or circumstantial evidence that's been publicly found or reported on linking JBC to the Delphi case so far, so I'd be cautious about getting too invested in the idea that he's the killer.
I am having a hard time with the DNA evidence. It had been reported that DNA was found at the scene (link below). I just can’t wrap my head around JC spending so much time in prison without his DNA being in the DNA data bank. JMO
DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation | Fox 59
 

JudgeJudi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
10,139
Reaction score
26,485
In 2021, they would run a DNA match on the blood to match it to the victim, turning it from circumstantial to hard evidence.

Maybe this will help explain the differences between direct and circumstantial evidence.

Direct evidence
Clearly demonstrates a defendant committed a crime. Factual evidence that incontrovertibly shows a person committed the alleged offense may be used to meet the standards for proving guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. Examples include:
  • Security camera footage showing a person breaking into a store and stealing items;
  • An audio recording of a person admitting to committing a crime;
  • Ballistics tests that show a bullet was fired by a specific firearm;
  • Eyewitness testimony that a person saw the defendant commit a crime;
  • The defendant’s fingerprints on a weapon used to commit murder; and
  • Computer records showing a person illegally used someone else’s credit card.
Circumstantial evidence
In many cases, direct evidence of a crime doesn't exist and prosecutors must use evidence that implies the defendant committed the alleged offense. Examples include:
  • Eyewitness testimony that a person was seen fleeing from the scene of a crime;
  • A person’s fingerprints found at the scene of the crime alongside other people’s fingerprints;
  • An audio recording of the defendant stating his or her intent to commit a crime before the alleged crime actually occurred;
  • Harassing emails or text messages a defendant sent to a person who was later assaulted; and
  • A person’s browser history showing how he or she searched for information about the tools used to commit the crime of which he or she is accused.
While a single piece of circumstantial evidence may not be enough to demonstrate a person’s guilt, the evidence as a whole (much like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle) must satisfy the court that it proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This evidence need not prove that the defendant is absolutely guilty or guilty beyond any question, but rather that there are no other logical explanations resulting from the case facts that anyone other than the defendant could have committed the crime.

Legally, all forensic evidence including DNA analysis, fingerprints etc. fall under the category of circumstantial evidence and only serve as partial proof of a criminal act. DNA alone will not prove a person's guilt. The criminal justice system depends on irrefutable proof that the defendant was not only present when the crime was committed, but also that he or she in fact committed the crime.
 

flashy09

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
783
Reaction score
8,859
I am having a hard time with the DNA evidence. It had been reported that DNA was found at the scene (link below). I just can’t wrap my head around JC spending so much time in prison without his DNA being in the DNA data bank. JMO
DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation | Fox 59

I know, that is my big fear too. He for sure has DNA on file. But one interesting thing about that article is that you need 30-35 human cells for a good sample. Maybe they didn't get that much? Or maybe it wasn't his?

Remember when DNA was sent to Quantico for "DNA testing research?" Maybe that was trying to extract more from the partial sample? Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

It was right after this that the PC was held with the new sketch.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top