Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[minazoe]

my feeling is this immature faux criminal mastermind was using the symbols of prison tattoo art and gang culture with absolutely no religious faith or understanding of religion..

if he did stage with christian symbols he just wanted to make himself look deep and create a movie scene for all to ponder.

this guy is an idiot and I don't think church has one thing to do with it. mOO

 

[Maplesyrup]

So in the opinions of others here on WS, are we to assume that LE "know" who did this but just don't have the information to charge him? Is the general consensus that if someone in a neighboring state [Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan] have someone they think could be involved that they should brush off their suspicions, mind their own business and trust that LE "has got it" and prefers everyone mind their own business? I am genuinely trying to understand what the message is here. TIA IMO

 

[AC4RD]

I think as time drags on and to prevent this becoming a cold case, the Delphi PD need to consider handing over the DNA to Parabon Biontec. should be doing covert surveillance in order to collect anything that could have DNA left on it discarded by any viable POI (cigarette, food / utensils from a restaurant, discarded chewing gum, water bottles or cans, tissue paper, .

The task force confirmed that they DO have some DNA; they have not commented AFAIK on what they have done with the potential DNA evidence, but I think it's safe to guess that they've done everything possible with the DNA they have. What they've done and what they've found out (if anything) is part of the case data they are not publically discussing. As far as I know.

Once again, BTW, I am impressed at the job LE and the people of Delphi have done in keeping things close to the vest, to protect the investigation. Most of us *want* more information, but it's pretty clear that they've released what info they want, and they've convinced pretty much everybody in Delphi and LE to keep quiet about what people there DO know. Managing to keep so many people from leaking information for so long suggests to me that the people and LE of Delphi are VERY serious about making the investigation successful.

 

[sandy_80]

So in the opinions of others here on WS, are we to assume that LE "know" who did this but just don't have the information to charge him? Is the general consensus that if someone in a neighboring state [Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan] have someone they think could be involved that they should brush off their suspicions, mind their own business and trust that LE "has got it" and prefers everyone mind their own business? I am genuinely trying to understand what the message is here. TIA IMO

there is no such general opinion.. its simply the opinion of some..not backed by anything substantial as far as I am concerned
logically they woudnt consider the peado guy as POI or any other if they had their man .. its just that a lot of ppl tend to over analyze every word LE says in this case..and had the tendency to compare cases unrelated

 

[Calcano]

So in the opinions of others here on WS, are we to assume that LE "know" who did this but just don't have the information to charge him?

No IMHO I believe it's the opposite. They're chasing a ghost. This guy is either good, lucky, or both. I also don't believe they have usable DNA, they just want him to think that because it's the only form of control LE can take back in this situation. Making him wonder what they have. However, the type of person to commit this atrocity may not have the capacity to fear these unknowns.

I believe there's a very good chance he hasn't victimized anyone since the murders and is still living off the high that the public interest in this case brings him. We're nearly entering folklore in this case where fact and fiction have become so blurred because of how little evidence and information LE has publicly confirmed.

 

[carbuff]

So in the opinions of others here on WS, are we to assume that LE "know" who did this but just don't have the information to charge him? Is the general consensus that if someone in a neighboring state [Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan] have someone they think could be involved that they should brush off their suspicions, mind their own business and trust that LE "has got it" and prefers everyone mind their own business? I am genuinely trying to understand what the message is here. TIA IMO

I'm fairly sure we do not have a consensus on anything with regards to this case

The fact that investigators have seriously looked at every related case (GK, DN, JBC, etc...) convinces me that they are doing their due diligence and are not closing their eyes to other possibilities. But I definitely feel like they have narrowed their suspicions down to one or two people but can't prove it yet. (Personally I think they know it's one of two people but can't prove which one.)

I've always had a gut feel, partly based on the number coincidences (the Iowa girls' disappearance date reversed gives the Delphi disappearance date (US format, no leading zeros)) that this case and the Iowa case were related. That tends to point away from most of the local suspects.

 

[JnRyan]

So in the opinions of others here on WS, are we to assume that LE "know" who did this but just don't have the information to charge him? Is the general consensus that if someone in a neighboring state [Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan] have someone they think could be involved that they should brush off their suspicions, mind their own business and trust that LE "has got it" and prefers everyone mind their own business? I am genuinely trying to understand what the message is here. TIA IMO

To be sure, based on comments on here, there are some that believe LE has a suspect(s) but don't have compelling evidence. I'm not one of them.

In defense of those who believe LE have someone in mind, I think back to the 2006 missing person case of Teresa Butler (Briscoe MO). For 13 years many of us thought LE didn't have anyone in mind when in fact they had been looking at a suspect within 48 hours of her disappearance. They didn't have the evidence and it was only after the suspect finally confessed that an arrest was made in 2019. So is it possible? Certainly. I just don't believe that is the case here. But that is just my opinion, others may disagree. After over 13 years, arrest made in Teresa Butler case

If we are to believe Sheriff Leazenby's statement that they have DNA but don't know if they have the killer's DNA, then LE is in a tough situation. Just because they take a POI's DNA and it doesn't match any of the DNA doesn't mean LE can eliminate that person. If the killer didn't touch either of the girls or neither fought back and he used a firearm then DNA might be a non-factor. (Believers of LE having a suspect(s) might point to that aspect as to why LE might struggle to find evidence.)

Unless someone has firm knowledge of the suspect, I would imagine many err on the side of NOT calling in a tip - regardless of whether they are out of state or near Delphi. One of the cases I've used as an example is the murder of UVA student, Hannah Graham, by Jesse Matthew.
Murder of Hannah Graham - Wikipedia
LE had a composite sketch of Morgan Harrington's killer - killed in Charlottesville VA. Jesse Matthew's coworkers at the Charlottesville cab company where he worked made fun of Matthew's resemblance to the sketch but to the best of my knowledge none of them ever called in a tip. Matthew would go on to murder Graham. Could someone out there be looking at the Delphi killer and be laughing at his resemblance to the sketch? It's happened before.

 

[JnRyan]

I'm fairly sure we do not have a consensus on anything with regards to this case

That one sentence says a lot right there. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the different investigators and prosecutors have differing views on certain aspects of this case.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I think, then it should have been on March 17th, 2021? Which federal state would it have been in?

I think the date that L&E were found also plays into it. And another specific date that is special or rather significant to him/her/them. JMO.

And by federal state do you mean Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Brazil, Canada, Germany, India, Malaysia, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russia, Switzerland, or only states within the United States?

 

[FromGermany1]

I think the date that L&E were found also plays into it. And another specific date that is special or rather significant to him/her/them. JMO.

And by federal state do you mean Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Brazil, Canada, Germany, India, Malaysia, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russia, Switzerland, or only states within the United States?

Actually states within the United States.
Okay, when you also have in mind 12052012 (Iowa) and 02142017 (Indiana) - girls were found -, then I have no specific date atm.

 

[Charlot123]

I think, then it should have been on March 17th, 2021? Which federal state would it have been in?

i don’t know how people think, but if, if, the IA and IN cases are related, maybe, IL? Or was IL in between the two?

The guy can be killing on certain days, on certain dates, or “covering” the states, or just whatever works.

 

[WellThen]

So in the opinions of others here on WS, are we to assume that LE "know" who did this but just don't have the information to charge him? Is the general consensus that if someone in a neighboring state [Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan] have someone they think could be involved that they should brush off their suspicions, mind their own business and trust that LE "has got it" and prefers everyone mind their own business? I am genuinely trying to understand what the message is here. TIA IMO

I would think all leads should be reported to LE officials. Let them know and they will sort it out. This case is so disturbing and haunting, it needs to be solved and you never know what little sliver of information might help.

Nobody really knows what LE knows and whether they are close to solving this. I hope they are and have opinions on certain aspects of the case, but truly nobody knows.

 

[sunshineray]

The task force confirmed that they DO have some DNA; they have not commented AFAIK on what they have done with the potential DNA evidence, but I think it's safe to guess that they've done everything possible with the DNA they have. What they've done and what they've found out (if anything) is part of the case data they are not publically discussing. As far as I know.

Once again, BTW, I am impressed at the job LE and the people of Delphi have done in keeping things close to the vest, to protect the investigation. Most of us *want* more information, but it's pretty clear that they've released what info they want, and they've convinced pretty much everybody in Delphi and LE to keep quiet about what people there DO know. Managing to keep so many people from leaking information for so long suggests to me that the people and LE of Delphi are VERY serious about making the investigation successful.

I know it's RadarOnline but it's the only time I've heard LE talk at length about DNA. The Sheriff is quoted.

“We sent more evidence to the FBI at Quantico just before Christmas,” Sheriff Leazenby told Radar in an exclusive interview and said they were doing “DNA testing research,” with regards to the case...

...The Sheriff told Radar that the Golden State Killer arrest was influential in their investigation. “We are very much looking into that as a way to move this case forward,” he explained. “We are doing DNA testing research. With 23 and Me and the other places that do it, that is something that has been discussed....


...Police never revealed how Williams and German were killed and Sheriff Leazenby told Radar that the “evidence” that was given to the FBI was not something that he could share but said he was hopeful there would be a break in the case.

Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

 

[Charlot123]

I found this interesting. I'm not a big numerology person but you never know who might have interest and aligned their actions accordingly. Who's to say what influences the craven mind of a serial killer.

Evansdale 07/13/12=14
Delphi 02/13/17=14

In Chinese numerology 4 is suppose to be the unluckiest of numbers.

I've read it's because in Cantonese and Mandarin the word for 4 sounds like their word for "death".

The number 14 is also considered very unlucky because of course is has a 4 in it but also because the number 1 word means "will certainly" or "guaranteed". Matched with the 4..."will certainly die" or "guaranteed death". There are some other nuanced phrases but all mean much the same, death.

It could be anything.

Or, it could be IA, (IL?), IN

Maybe the guy is “covering” the states, like some other killers were doing it with chessboards, etc

 

[Charlot123]

The task force confirmed that they DO have some DNA; they have not commented AFAIK on what they have done with the potential DNA evidence, but I think it's safe to guess that they've done everything possible with the DNA they have. What they've done and what they've found out (if anything) is part of the case data they are not publically discussing. As far as I know.

Once again, BTW, I am impressed at the job LE and the people of Delphi have done in keeping things close to the vest, to protect the investigation. Most of us *want* more information, but it's pretty clear that they've released what info they want, and they've convinced pretty much everybody in Delphi and LE to keep quiet about what people there DO know. Managing to keep so many people from leaking information for so long suggests to me that the people and LE of Delphi are VERY serious about making the investigation successful.

With DNA, every day we read something new

Sitting Bull's great-grandson identified through DNA fragments

The article tells how the descendant of Sitting Bull, Indian chief, was identified by DNA from the deceased man’s hair. The approach is new.

Here, the sequencing method and the new comparison approach are described

AAAS

Can it be used in Delphi material?

 

[FromGermany1]

That one sentence says a lot right there. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the different investigators and prosecutors have differing views on certain aspects of this case.

They might agree, but their hands are tied in some form. Who knows.

 

[Marzipan]

While This Man, like some others, does present himself to be a good POI, what keeps bothering me is Libby's video/audio. If BG was someone she knew, why secretly record him? Why did her and Abby not refer to him by name? LE said the girls participated in girl talk and mention "the man". Did she say his name? I don't think BG was known to either girl. JMO

"Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man." Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family | wthr.com

Edit: I was responding to someone's previous post but my phone is showing it's gone and their quoted message is missing from the top of my response

I’m not sure which post you meant to quote but some recent have been about men in church roles. However, at least five actual clergy have been considered by either LE and/or amateur sleuths in this case, and even more people in other church roles. (That’s why I have felt comfortable that I’m not breaking rules mentioning church leaders—I’m not identifying anyone.) So, my point is that the girls knew one or two of those but we don’t know if they knew all of them. Don’t assume someone is hinting about one they did know. Could be a different one.

 

[JemZy9]

I am convinced JBC is BG. His cryptic FB messages seem too eerily similar to be a coincidence (train trestle, red hair etc). We know he is capable as he was caught in the act. He would have a reason to cover up due to his tattoos and ear gauges. Voice and appearance similar. Violent pedophile. Police moving to a different location to work on case.

The media blackout could be to prevent him claiming (further) that there may be jury bias due to the media around the case. It is perfectly possible that the police first want to prosecute this case first before placing more potential charges. This has been done before in other cases and often is to give the living victim justice. Otherwise her case may get overlooked. Often serial killers are caught in the act eventually or mess up. I think this has happened here. Once he is locked up for this current case they can take time to make it watertight but there are a lot of ends to tie up if JBC is BG/ serial killer. Eg Iowa and other potential cases. No way would LE be able to tie all those up before this pending case. They would also have to look further to see of could solve more. JMO

 

[minazoe]

I am convinced JBC is BG. His cryptic FB messages seem too eerily similar to be a coincidence (train trestle, red hair etc). We know he is capable as he was caught in the act. He would have a reason to cover up due to his tattoos and ear gauges. Voice and appearance similar. Violent pedophile. Police moving to a different location to work on case.

The media blackout could be to prevent him claiming (further) that there may be jury bias due to the media around the case. It is perfectly possible that the police first want to prosecute this case first before placing more potential charges. This has been done before in other cases and often is to give the living victim justice. Otherwise her case may get overlooked. Often serial killers are caught in the act eventually or mess up. I think this has happened here. Once he is locked up for this current case they can take time to make it watertight but there are a lot of ends to tie up if JBC is BG/ serial killer. Eg Iowa and other potential cases. No way would LE be able to tie all those up before this pending case. They would also have to look further to see of could solve more. JMO

the train trestle was my turning point...and other circular posts where he isn't saying anything unless you read between the lines. like the post he made earlier in the day before he attacked this poor little girl. it is dramatic and wordy, yet it makes no sense..he tries to fit his problems into the main stream...he knows no one can relate to him. he is sneaking in hints about his proclivities. he knows he a total outcast but pretends he is just a misunderstood socially conscious person. all lies...mOO

 

[AC4RD]

I would think all leads should be reported to LE officials. Let them know and they will sort it out. ,,,, Nobody really knows what LE knows and whether they are close to solving this. I hope they are and have opinions on certain aspects of the case, but truly nobody knows.

THIS. (long low whistle of admiration at how well you put that.)