Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

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gitana1 said:
Thank you so much for all that detail.

I think his body and face shape work with the photos we’ve seen. But man I always pegged BG as older due to his body language and what I could perceive of his outfit. But this guy’s body type can lend itself to moving in the manner the photos suggest.

What gets me is the contact with Libby. The CSAM he is apparently into. The lack of a decent alibi. The admission that he was the last person to see Libby or talk to her (I can’t recall which) prior to the murders, aside from the murderer. How could he know that? And also, his dad’s attempt to pretend he wasn’t around at the time. Why do that if his son was innocent?
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Also that he contacted Libby after knowing she was dead…very shady and obviously damage control….and googled all sorts of questions about the murders and how long DNA lasts, etc!
 
AC4RD said:
I've trotted out this sad "photo lineup" too often; almost everybody already has seen it, I'm sure. The photo on the far left was KAK and his dad at Hoover Dam, near Las Vegas. My belief is that it's KAK around the time of the murders. The middle picture says 2018 and is TK's pathetic attempt at providing an alibi for his son ("not here in 2 years" would be "wasn't here when those poor girls were killed, noooooo, not a bit.") And then the right is the well-known booking photo.

I've seen another photo that is supposedly KAK, taking a mirror-selfie, dressed in red; I'm not actually sure where that came from or if it's really KAK so I haven't included it in my ruminations.

KAK is visibly shorter than his father, and his dad looks to be around 6' or a bit under, just to my own eye. I think that Hoover Dam photo shows a young man about 5'9"-10" and around 180-190 pounds, though that is just my own personal estimate. I think KAK looks very much like he *could be* the murderer on the bridge, BG, physically. Opinions on this differ widely. (I also think he has the thin legs / bulky torso body profile that I see in the BG video; opinions also differ on that.

I've been saying that KAK *could* be BG physicially, that he's a good match in that Hoover Dam photo, the one nearest the murders. But I've added that I didn't think he was the actual murderer--just that based on the photos, he *could have been* the person in the bridge video.

With all the other items that cast suspicion on KAK (I outlined in the first msg and many of the points have been stated by others as well), I'm now thinking that KAK looks like he really might be the killer. MHO but there's a lot of reason to suspect KAK. Others don't agree with this part, but I don't see any actual evidence of involvement by anybody else; just suspicions with no evidence supporting it. So my own opinion is that KAK is that the best and only candidate so far, based on what little we actually know.
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This is exactly where I've come out. I think the body type/face of the person on the bridge is just so similar to KAK that it's hard for me to believe that it isn't him, especially when you consider what he looked like around the time of the crime.

I think of it sort of like a bayesian model: the fact that he was communicating with communicating Libby is a prior probability that increases the chance that it's him with each other possible tie to the crime. It doesn't raise the probability to 100% of course, but given that he a) was communicating with Libby, b) looks a lot physically like the person on the bridge, and c) has a patently false alibi from his father, it seems very likely (or very unlikely that those things are all independently true by chance alone).

I also think that you can add to that list that the person on the bridge is probably the killer, because the video was taken for a reason, and we know that it was taken in temporal proximity to the recorded audio, which seems almost certainly to be the killer's voice. Therefore, we know that the time that they met their killer was around the time that this person showed up on the bridge.

What I wonder is what else is known from the crime scene; for example, is there evidence of a sex crime, in which case, then one could add that KAK was a sexually dangerous person to the probability mix.
 
Skigirl said:
This is exactly where I've come out. I think the body type/face of the person on the bridge is just so similar to KAK that it's hard for me to believe that it isn't him, especially when you consider what he looked like around the time of the crime.

I think of it sort of like a bayesian model: the fact that he was communicating with communicating Libby is a prior probability that increases the chance that it's him with each other possible tie to the crime. It doesn't raise the probability to 100% of course, but given that he a) was communicating with Libby, b) looks a lot physically like the person on the bridge, and c) has a patently false alibi from his father, it seems very likely (or very unlikely that those things are all independently true by chance alone).

I also think that you can add to that list that the person on the bridge is probably the killer, because the video was taken for a reason, and we know that it was taken in temporal proximity to the recorded audio, which seems almost certainly to be the killer's voice. Therefore, we know that the time that they met their killer was around the time that this person showed up on the bridge.

What I wonder is what else is known from the crime scene; for example, is there evidence of a sex crime, in which case, then one could add that KAK was a sexually dangerous person to the probability mix.
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Maybe—depending on how much thinner he was in February of 2017. I don't think I've seen a full-body photo of him. If his legs are skinny compared to his upper body, then I could see it, but it would mean that LE's height estimate for BG was way low. KAK is right around 6' by all accounts.
 
Skigirl said:
This is exactly where I've come out. I think the body type/face of the person on the bridge is just so similar to KAK that it's hard for me to believe that it isn't him, especially when you consider what he looked like around the time of the crime.
Click to expand...

I think if anything summed up this case in a microcosm it would be this. You see KAK as so similar to BG that you find it hard to believe it isn't him. I see BG as absolutely nothing like KAK that makes it hard for me to believe it is him.

The complexity of this case is something else even with the evidence that is available.
 
cuecard said:
I think if anything summed up this case in a microcosm it would be this. You see KAK as so similar to BG that you find it hard to believe it isn't him. I see BG as absolutely nothing like KAK that makes it hard for me to believe it is him.

The complexity of this case is something else even with the evidence that is available.
Click to expand...

Maybe BG was working with KAK who was waiting in the woods near the cemetery. KAK is involved for sure, almost.
 
gitana1 said:
Thank you so much for all that detail.

I think his body and face shape work with the photos we’ve seen. But man I always pegged BG as older due to his body language and what I could perceive of his outfit. But this guy’s body type can lend itself to moving in the manner the photos suggest.

What gets me is the contact with Libby. The CSAM he is apparently into. The lack of a decent alibi. The admission that he was the last person to see Libby or talk to her (I can’t recall which) prior to the murders, aside from the murderer. How could he know that? And also, his dad’s attempt to pretend he wasn’t around at the time. Why do that if his son was innocent?
Click to expand...

You should read the whole interview. He says at one point that his bag was packed and that he should have left for Vegas earlier. I believe he says that he was "f'd," make what you will of that.
 
cuecard said:
I think if anything summed up this case in a microcosm it would be this. You see KAK as so similar to BG that you find it hard to believe it isn't him. I see BG as absolutely nothing like KAK that makes it hard for me to believe it is him.

The complexity of this case is something else even with the evidence that is available.
Click to expand...
I actually don't see him as similar or dissimilar to BG, I just think that the evidence, taken together, suggests KAK.
 
I agree with this statement below. The grainy image on the bridge has already perfectly matched several completely different suspects as discussed by SM and here on WS so that’s not going to convict anyone beyond reasonable doubt regardless what we think. IIRC on a fairly recent podcast an ex-FBI talking head said the four word recording wasn’t enough to use for voice analysis. LE needs more.

KAK first came to the attention of LE only days after the murders and again Aug 2020 when he was interviewed, it’s only an exciting recent development as far as we’re concerned. Also we had been told the last missing piece of the puzzle was the identity of the killer, leading us to assume LE had evidence that would point toward to a suspect once he was identified. Either that wasn’t true or no evidence pointed toward KAK (or his father) as almost two full years have passed since this transcript was recorded. IMO it’s this length of time that gives rise to doubt as it’s not as if KAK (or his father) just came to the attention of LE. But I sure wouldn’t mind changing my opinion if charges were laid tomorrow :) JMO

“While Kline and his father Tony Kline have been at the center of the Delphi investigation. Kouns said the information found in these transcripts proves nothing.

“All this stuff is great, but you still need that key piece that you take it to court,” he said……”
Delphi murders: Peeping incident possibly tied to suspicious account | NewsNation
 
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MistyWaters said:
I agree with this statement below. The grainy image on the bridge has already perfectly matched several completely different suspects as discussed by SM and here on WS so that’s not going to convict anyone beyond reasonable doubt regardless what we think. IIRC on a fairly recent podcast an ex-FBI talking head said the four word recording wasn’t enough to use for voice analysis. LE needs more.

KAK first came to the attention of LE only days after the murders and again Aug 2020 when he was interviewed, it’s only an exciting recent development as far as we’re concerned. Also we had been told the last missing piece of the puzzle was the identity of the killer, leading us to assume LE had evidence that would point toward to a suspect once he was identified. Either that wasn’t true or no evidence pointed toward KAK (or his father) as almost two full years have passed since this transcript was recorded. It this length of time that gives rise to doubt, it’s not as if KAK (or his father) just came to the attention of LE. But I sure wouldn’t mind changing my opinion if charges were laid tomorrow :) JMO

“While Kline and his father Tony Kline have been at the center of the Delphi investigation. Kouns said the information found in these transcripts proves nothing.

“All this stuff is great, but you still need that key piece that you take it to court,” he said……”
Delphi murders: Peeping incident possibly tied to suspicious account | NewsNation
Click to expand...

Group crimes aka more than one perp are difficult to prosecute as defense is able to point at others in the group as scapegoats.
 
Yuletide said:
Group crimes aka more than one perp are difficult to prosecute as defense is able to point at others in the group as scapegoats.
Click to expand...

True, but if LE have no other evidence to identify a suspect other than verbal allegations made by another pedophile in the group then I fear we may be waiting for a deathbed confession. :(
 
Pretrial conference to be skipped in Kegan Kline child *advertiser censored* case | wthr.com

Kline's next court appearance will instead be Sept. 1, just days before his Sept. 26 trial.
Author: WTHR.com staff
Published: 3:22 PM EDT April 6, 2022
Updated: 7:12 PM EDT April 6, 2022
MIAMI COUNTY, Ind. — A judge lifted a pretrial conference for Kegan A. Kline in his child exploitation case. That conference had been set for April 14.

Kline's next court appearance will instead be Sept. 1, just days before his Sept. 26 trial
 
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