Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Theorizing based on some known fact sourced from MSM or LE is fine, but speculation not based on known fact is not allowed.

Also, a few reminders from TOS:

It is WS preferred policy to use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just private message a Mod or Admin for clarification.

Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

Before you post something make sure what you are stating is FACT as we know it from MSM, LE or another approved Websleuths source.

Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons are not allowed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Boxer]

IIRC Per Grandmother Libby wiped her phone a week before she was murdered due to "glitching." Itseems that Libby was still using a phone from her Grandmother after her own phone was wiped.

Anthony_Shots is the catfishing profile developed by KAK to lure young teens. Libby apparently had substantial interaction with "Anthony_Shots."


When KAK and TKs house in Peru searched, the police did not find KAKs relevant catfishing phone.

Then week(s) later KAK "found it" and turned it in to police, wiped.


Just a thought, if Libby wiped her phone yet did not go back to using it, maybe she felt she shook somebody off by wipong the phone and abandoning the old phone number, unaware that it A_S: KAK or TK.who were the source of what ever happened to cause her to wipe and abandon her phone.

 

[DeDee]

KAK is a known deviant with a sexual interest in chiildren--he admits that. He also admits to having been in contact with Libby, among others, and seemed (in the transcript, MHO) not to object when LE said he was the last outside person known to be in contact with Libby other than the murderer.

After the murders another girl who had been in contact with KAK reported a Peeping Tom to the local police. After the murders, KAK apparently went to Las Vegas for several days (the timelines still aren't clear to me.) KAK put a bunch of "work history" on facebook that included his being hired as a casino card dealer the same day as the murders--but we know he posted that over a year *after* he claims it happened. No casino reported knowing KAK to the "Murder Sheet" podcasters.

KAK admits that he wiped information from his electronic devices, and presumably hid his main phone when his house was searched two weeks after the murders. Many of us assume he did so to hide criminal evidence.

Over a year after the murders, TK, KAK's father, posted a message on FB with a picture of KAK saying "my boy is coming home--he hasn't been here in over two years." The 'over 2 years' is greatly incorrect and TK must have lied deliberately since he apparently was with KAK immediately after the murders. Many of us assume TK did this to provide a pathetically weak and laughably fictional alibi for his son.

Those are the major points as I recall them, Gypsy Lass. I would add that the pictures of KAK from the Las Vegas trip *to me* and this is just my opinion, look to me that he easily could physically be Bridge Guy from the video.

All this is just my own poor opinion. I also think law enforcement has more evidence than we know, pointing to KAK, but he's in jail and not getting out any time soon, so there's no urgency in an arrest. (shrug) JMHO.

I can agree with almost all of this whether or not it's them who's responsible for what happened on FEB 13, we cannot confirm att. I might add to this:

"The 'over 2 years' is greatly incorrect and TK must have lied deliberately since he apparently was with KAK immediately after the murders. Many of us assume TK did this to provide a pathetically weak and laughably fictional alibi for his son."

It is beginning to look as if the two of them are involved up to that blue jacket, in some shape or another. In the least, TK is looking good for this unexpected and horrifying double homicide. Perhaps TK was providing an alibi for himself, as well as for his favored son.
.
.

 

[Boxer]

KAK/TK are the only POIs that have actual links to one of the girls, meaning Libby.

Per KAK Libby planned to meet with "A_S," he said "she never showed up."

MOO that planned meeting would have been an ambush to rape her, since there is no "A_S" and it would be KAK appearing instead.

IMO Libby did go to meet "A_S," and KAK/TK came instead planning to rape her. And then there were two girls, but the plan went forward any way.

We know TK is an extemely out of control, violent abuser and KAK, though has outbursts less frequently has an overkill rage response to certain things (per his brother.)

 

[margarita25]

Project Hades: Dark Web Revealed - ACAMS Today

“In order to understand Project Hades as a dark web intelligence platform, it is necessary to clarify the concept of the dark web itself beyond some of the stereotypes created around it. The reason the dark web is called “dark” is not because it is a place of heinous activities, but rather because the cryptography protocols that protect users and URLs operating in it mixes attributions to the extent that they are made “dark,” compared to the daylight, in which intelligence monitors are accustomed to operating.”

[...]

“Big Data: Out of the Dark
One problem with the dark web relates to the decentralized nature of the internet. Things are opaque because attributions are all “falsified and falsifiable” without any further validation. On the dark web, IPs are proxies and where users seem to use their real-world nicknames and post personal identifiable information as if there was no tomorrow. Investigators must take into account the hypothesis of attribution being a matter of “online vengeance,” as this is what often occurs in child sexual abuse material (CSAM) cases.

From now on, it is important to separate intelligence from law enforcement (LE) activities—they are not and cannot be the same. The two crime-fighting activities occur in different stages of the timeline and face very different challenges. For intelligence, the question is not how far an IP is geolocated in international waters related to a specific user but, rather, how deeply integrated is this same IP with other criminal activities. For example, the registry of a cryptocurrency transaction performed between a CSAM criminal located in the U.S. and another criminal in Australia might happen in the public section of a French CSAM website—making this data subject to French jurisdiction. Consequently, a cryptocurrency address that might have been highly relevant for a CSAM investigation in the U.S. and Australia might never reach the U.S. nor Australia without the help of an intermediary and central database.

The lack of a central database for intelligence sharing on CSAM is still one of the biggest challenges for LE authorities working in the field—and that includes a challenge pervading cryptocurrency information.”

*more at link

—

Re: paragraph 3, our late Great @Foxfire used to refer to this in simple terms as “jurisdictional blindness”

My main point for posting this article here is to mention the cryptocurrency element.

 

[FromGermany1]

KAK/TK are the only POIs that have actual links to one of the girls, meaning Libby.

Per KAK Libby planned to meet with "A_S," he said "she never showed up."

MOO that planned meeting would have been an ambush to rape her, since there is no "A_S" and it would be KAK appearing instead.

IMO Libby did go to meet "A_S," and KAK/TK came instead planning to rape her. And then there were two girls, but the plan went forward any way.

We know TK is an extemely out of control, violent abuser and KAK, though has outbursts less frequently has an overkill rage response to certain things (per his brother.)

KAK and TK are locals so-to-say and I wonder, why would they meet in the middle of the day a girl at the MHB-area, where umpteen people could have been around as they would have known. As fas as we know, they aren't sk, who maybe don't care, what time of day they kill. Choosing 13 pm by KAK/TK I can't imagine, unless they "were forced to act" (with murder, not rape), and this day was the last possible date for them. IF one of them wanted to eliminate Libby (Abby) as a possible kind of witness and because of an imminent danger to themself, then I could understand the time of day. Otherwise I believe, the killer is rather a sk. He might belong to the giant web of pedos or not. IMO MOO

 

[Nobody_special]

Considering the platforms that he was using, KAK could have targeted girls from anywhere for his CSAM catfishing but it sounds like he generally stayed local and even had victims from families that he knew. It seems like that was likely a big part of the thrill for him. From there, it’s not tough to imagine that he may have scheduled meet ups that were purely for voyeuristic purposes. He obviously would never be confused for the anthony_shots model, so he could actually schedule a meeting, show up, and just observe, without ever being recognized or found out. This may have made things more “real” for him than just digital images or correspondence and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he silently stalked other victims that he received images from.

Maybe that was the plan with Libby but someone else who had access to the profile showed up instead of— or in addition to—KAK? Or maybe that person actually scheduled the meet up? Maybe what happened was indeed planned? Or maybe it was a crime of opportunity or perhaps something went wrong (like Abby being with Libby) that triggered some kind of homicidal rage?

Obviously all just pure speculation but I’d be surprised at this point if KAK (and TK) weren’t somehow involved.

 

[minazoe]

KAK supposedly failed a poly...for me this is extremely important info....also the fact that he gave them nothing..even though a girl he knew was MURDERED he could not remember where he was or what he was doing that day? even though he communicated with her? gimme a break..he is a liar...it's outrageous!

mOO

 

[Falling Down]

Project Hades: Dark Web Revealed - ACAMS Today

“In order to understand Project Hades as a dark web intelligence platform, it is necessary to clarify the concept of the dark web itself beyond some of the stereotypes created around it. The reason the dark web is called “dark” is not because it is a place of heinous activities, but rather because the cryptography protocols that protect users and URLs operating in it mixes attributions to the extent that they are made “dark,” compared to the daylight, in which intelligence monitors are accustomed to operating.”

[...]

“Big Data: Out of the Dark
One problem with the dark web relates to the decentralized nature of the internet. Things are opaque because attributions are all “falsified and falsifiable” without any further validation. On the dark web, IPs are proxies and where users seem to use their real-world nicknames and post personal identifiable information as if there was no tomorrow. Investigators must take into account the hypothesis of attribution being a matter of “online vengeance,” as this is what often occurs in child sexual abuse material (CSAM) cases.

From now on, it is important to separate intelligence from law enforcement (LE) activities—they are not and cannot be the same. The two crime-fighting activities occur in different stages of the timeline and face very different challenges. For intelligence, the question is not how far an IP is geolocated in international waters related to a specific user but, rather, how deeply integrated is this same IP with other criminal activities. For example, the registry of a cryptocurrency transaction performed between a CSAM criminal located in the U.S. and another criminal in Australia might happen in the public section of a French CSAM website—making this data subject to French jurisdiction. Consequently, a cryptocurrency address that might have been highly relevant for a CSAM investigation in the U.S. and Australia might never reach the U.S. nor Australia without the help of an intermediary and central database.

The lack of a central database for intelligence sharing on CSAM is still one of the biggest challenges for LE authorities working in the field—and that includes a challenge pervading cryptocurrency information.”

*more at link

—

Re: paragraph 3, our late Great @Foxfire used to refer to this in simple terms as “jurisdictional blindness”

My main point for posting this article here is to mention the cryptocurrency element.

Good luck to U.S. LE getting warrants for searches of data from apps, sites, etc., based outside the U.S. It can be a challenging task, and people up to no good on the internet here in the States know this.

 

[Falling Down]

Considering the platforms that he was using, KAK could have targeted girls from anywhere for his CSAM catfishing but it sounds like he generally stayed local and even had victims from families that he knew. It seems like that was likely a big part of the thrill for him. From there, it’s not tough to imagine that he may have scheduled meet ups that were purely for voyeuristic purposes. He obviously would never be confused for the anthony_shots model, so he could actually schedule a meeting, show up, and just observe, without ever being recognized or found out. This may have made things more “real” for him than just digital images or correspondence and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he silently stalked other victims that he received images from.

Maybe that was the plan with Libby but someone else who had access to the profile showed up instead of— or in addition to—KAK? Or maybe that person actually scheduled the meet up? Maybe what happened was indeed planned? Or maybe it was a crime of opportunity or perhaps something went wrong (like Abby being with Libby) that triggered some kind of homicidal rage?

Obviously all just pure speculation but I’d be surprised at this point if KAK (and TK) weren’t somehow involved.

BBM


Since early on in the case, LE have insisted SM accounts and the internet were not involved in this case. I've thought that if there is a connection on those fronts, it would have had to have happened surreptitiously, someone with knowledge of the girls' whereabouts in the days before the murders, but was not known to them. Stalking these days doesn't have to include actual line-of-sight surveillance, harassing phone calls, etc.

I've thought all along that most likely this was a random encounter by a perp who figured he might find vulnerable possible victims that day there at MHB, but was open to a possible cyberstalking angle, far-fetched as it might seem. Just recently it was revealed people were putting random Apple-produced trackers with magnets on them, on folks' vehicles here in the States. Wouldn't surprise me if an individual, or a group of people collaborating together, could get information on folks' whereabouts in real time or almost real time, from apps and other means. Merely by looking at actual messages, or getting the info they're looking for from other bad people.

JMO

 

[Nobody_special]

BBM


Since early on in the case, LE have insisted SM accounts and the internet were not involved in this case. I've thought that if there is a connection on those fronts, it would have had to have happened surreptitiously, someone with knowledge of the girls' whereabouts in the days before the murders, but was not known to them. Stalking these days doesn't have to include actual line-of-sight surveillance, harassing phone calls, etc.

I've thought all along that most likely this was a random encounter by a perp who figured he might find vulnerable possible victims that day there at MHB, but was open to a possible cyberstalking angle, far-fetched as it might seem. Just recently it was revealed people were putting random Apple-produced trackers with magnets on them, on folks' vehicles here in the States. Wouldn't surprise me if an individual, or a group of people collaborating together, could get information on folks' whereabouts in real time or almost real time, from apps and other means. Merely by looking at actual messages, or getting the info they're looking for from other bad people.

JMO

My recollection early on is that LE dismissed a social media connection but I’m pretty sure that they’ve since admitted that they believe that there is some kind of connection to the anthony_shots instagram and Snapchat accounts, even before the transcript of the 2020 interview was (accidentally) released.

 

[sandy_80]

KAK/TK are the only POIs that have actual links to one of the girls, meaning Libby.

Per KAK Libby planned to meet with "A_S," he said "she never showed up."

MOO that planned meeting would have been an ambush to rape her, since there is no "A_S" and it would be KAK appearing instead.

IMO Libby did go to meet "A_S," and KAK/TK came instead planning to rape her. And then there were two girls, but the plan went forward any way.

We know TK is an extemely out of control, violent abuser and KAK, though has outbursts less frequently has an overkill rage response to certain things (per his brother.)

beyond ur first line.. the whole rest is just more speculation
kak is one big fat liar ..and so le were using lying tactics to pressure him
there is no facts established that the girls were meeting anyone again

 

[Yuletide]

I don’t recall ever reading that any people that were on the trails that day witnessed a man dressed like the man photographed by Libby on the bridge. (I could have missed it). Is it at all possible that BG was hiding at the end of the bridge and when the girls approached he walked past them on the bridge and then turned around headed back toward them triggering Libby to photograph him? Just an idea

 

[Boxer]

beyond ur first line.. the whole rest is just more speculation
kak is one big fat liar ..and so le were using lying tactics to pressure him
there is no facts established that the girls were meeting anyone again

Of course.
MOO but it is KAK saying to LE that she didn't show up to a meeting.

 

[Boxer]

I don’t recall ever reading that any people that were on the trails that day witnessed a man dressed like the man photographed by Libby on the bridge. (I could have missed it). Is it at all possible that BG was hiding at the end of the bridge and when the girls approached he walked past them on the bridge and then turned around headed back toward them triggering Libby to photograph him? Just an idea

Right, but apparenrly someone did see him and that person's identity is not public.

 

[Yuletide]

Right, but apparenrly someone did see him and that person's identity is not public.

It’s completely understandable why they would keep that witness shielded. My point was that I would assume there might be several witnesses if BG followed the girls across the bridge. I find it a bit more plausible that he waited for them instead.

 

[sandy_80]

Of course.
MOO but it is KAK saying to LE that she didn't show up to a meeting.

that is not true.. kak completely denies talking in person to libby in the first place.. its LE who suggests the account told a person he was supposed to meet her ( WHICH might be a lie or might be something made up by the person using the account ).. to which kak replies ( thats a *** lie )..
personally if le had that message evidence.. they would simply confront the suspect instead of he said/ she said tactic ..to me this says they dont have it so its just pressure tactic

 

[Yemelyan]

I don’t recall ever reading that any people that were on the trails that day witnessed a man dressed like the man photographed by Libby on the bridge. (I could have missed it). Is it at all possible that BG was hiding at the end of the bridge and when the girls approached he walked past them on the bridge and then turned around headed back toward them triggering Libby to photograph him? Just an idea

Setting aside the question of who saw him that day or where, the theory you've put here is the same as the one espoused by the hosts of the podcast "Down the Hill." They call it the "U-turn theory."

It's in one of the later episodes in the series, they discuss it at length - no idea if it is what happened, but worth checking out IMO.