Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

[photographer4]

I keep going back to one LE saying he saw the look on one of the girl‘s faces and it was a look of terror or something to this general effect. The video is 43 seconds long. How could he have seen this if something terrifying hadn’t happened within those seconds? Is there other video? I doubt it. So what did the officer see? And we’ve been told we all have it all wrong and no one has it right so far. What if literally the attack happened initially at the end of the bridge? Does not mean they died there, but could mean they were incapacitated there. We know the video says down the hill. We don’t know if that is a command to the girls or a direction of something he wants them to focus on. We have no idea.

Quoting myself for brevity, I wonder now, did the police think perhaps someone else recorded something (eg: killer or accomplice)? Did someone forget or drop something or leave something there intentionally??

 

[m00c0w]

How do phone pings from the cell service provider work? Do they silently determine a location or is it more like when I use find my device etc and they over ride the silence feature to beep or whatever really loudly to make finding them easier?

They silently detect the location, either by tower triangulation or the GPS receiver from the phone itself. This is part of E911 functionality. With a warrant or exigent circumstances, a telco can either force the phone to reveal its location to the telco via GPS which is usually extremely accurate, or by using tower triangulation that can be fairly accurate (but still relies on there being enough towers in the area to actually be able to narrow down the location sufficiently). This would not be apparent to anyone using or looking at the device.

As stated in the WaPo article I linked earlier, this is wholly different from historical cell site data.

JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Does anyone remember the name of that movie, where the murderer lined up and posed the victims after he killed them. IIRC he left no clues, but someone figured out that he had left fingerprints on their eyes, the eyeballs, as he posed the victims with eyes open the way he wanted them to look in death. That's how he was discovered, fingerprints on the eyes. I don't mean the new iris "fingerprints".

 

[Cryptic]

IMO She kind of does make a claim.
From the doc:
Page 8
"1. Based on the aforementioned facts, I believe there is probable cause to believe that Ronald Logan has committed the crime of murder and evidence of that could be found on Ronald Logan's property."

I agree, she did state that there was reason to believe that RL committed the murders.

At the same time, the unwritten focus of the warrant could have been to eliminate RL as a suspect. In the end, the agent was looking at:

An individual with a checkered past, including some aggression. The bodies of the victims were found on his property.
The individual then creates a false alible in advance.

The totality suggests that failing to obtain a search warrant regarding RL would be seen as a serious error. The fact that RL did not appear to be very sophisticated could have also supported the belief that RL would either be cleared quickly by negative results from the warrant, or that the warrant would quickly yield incriminating evidence.

 

[MollyDDD]

I find this fascinating. I do think LE knows more than they are letting on - I think this case is so extremely complex that they are trying to ensure they have all the i’s dotted and T’s crossed before moving forward. I really don’t think they’re at a loss for who did this. It’s more of, can we get a smoking gun out of this.

How is it complex? Idk. Maybe this was an extremely intricate ambush. Maybe multiple people were involved. These are just examples of possible complexity.

I also find it very interesting they believe the person is a local or someone who frequents the area.

Does anyone have a timeline from when the interaction started until it ended?

Five years on and reading all of this again, stills gives me chills. I believe who ever did this crime, pre planned it and had ”things” already set up.
And I definitely think there was more than one person involved. But why?
Were they trying to send some sort of message to someone or others?
The very fact that this remains unsolved is, I believe due to some pretty thorough planning, very purposeful. But again, why, why these two little girls? I don’t necessarily believe that they themselves did something personally to ”deserve it”, not that any one deserves to be murdered, but it was done as the result of the murders’ anger and revenge about something or someone. And I believe that someone knows who they are. JMO

 

[MollyDDD]

Does anyone remember the name of that movie, where the murderer lined up and posed the victims after he killed them. IIRC he left no clues, but someone figured out that he had left fingerprints on their eyes, the eyeballs, as he posed the victims with eyes open the way he wanted them to look in death. That's how he was discovered, fingerprints on the eyes. I don't mean the new iris "fingerprints".

My goodness, no, but what an unusual thing to do. Sickening what some human beings are capable of doing to others.

 

[MollyDDD]

I agree, she did state that there was reason to believe that RL committed the murders.

At the same time, the unwritten focus of the warrant could have been to eliminate RL as a suspect. In the end, the agent was looking at:

An individual with a checkered past, including some aggression. The bodies of the victims were found on his property.
The individual then creates a false alible in advance.

The totality suggests that failing to obtain a search warrant regarding RL would be seen as a serious error. The fact that RL did not appear to be very sophisticated could have also supported the belief that RL would either be cleared quickly by negative results from the warrant, or that the warrant would quickly yield incriminating evidence.

I find it awfully convenient that after all of these years, they blame it on a dead man, who was always in plain sight.

 

[MollyDDD]

True.

But I had suspected social media involvement in the murders from day 1, and after seeing many local interviews with him I didn’t think he appeared to be SM savvy. Also, I thought he looked too tall to be BG. When the revised age range was released he definitely would have been much older than BG.

JMO

I agree, he’s taller, and that pointy nose really stands out to me, unlike the sketches and video.

 

[MollyDDD]

To take that a step further, a phone is not a person. Just because a phone made a call, does not mean that the person who owns that phone made the call.

Very good point. Someone, or two, or three made sure to leave lots of interference to complicate the investigation.

 

[MollyDDD]

They were looking for photos / video / devices on which these materials could be made and stored…. has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps the killer put up a trail cam or two in the area where the killing took place? Maybe he put those up ahead of bringing the girls there? Perhaps they were even along the route. Maybe some device that he could connect to and watch in live time as the girls walked around the area and approached the bridge? He could have been in the woods near the bridge, seen them coming, on his phone via some live feed set up and then come out after they had stepped on the bridge. He could easily have taken any such devices with him. Devices like this are not even expensive to get really and are easy to set up / take down quickly. Finding out he used one or two of these wouldn’t shock me. Police may not even know if this was done or not done really depending on the evidence at the scene and in the general area. Scary thoughts.

Yep, very possible. I know there’s not much talk anymore about JBC, but all of the odd photographs he posted of the area around the MHB, still haunt me. I often wonder if he was somehow involved in this crime.

 

[Yvettea]

No one ever comes out and says anything, but it has always seemed that this was a ‘horrible’ murder. LE has talked about the terror evident in the girls in the video. Ron Logan’s early remarks implied a scary almost horrific crime scene. He couldn’t believe such a terrible crime occurred on ‘his property.’ His friend in the taped interview says ‘nothing will ever be the same now.’ That ‘when they come down here from now on they will be more vigilant.” And the arrest warrant emphasizes a large amount of blood would be present. A sharp instrument could be some thing worse than a knife. Maybe that’s what they are trying to say without coming out and saying it. The horrible part of the crime could be the use of a scarier weapon; something we would find horrifying.

 

[NuttMegg]

My goodness, no, but what an unusual thing to do. Sickening what some human beings are capable of doing to others.

I just remembered, it was Red Dragon,but there is a twist in the "eye" identification that I forgot, but won't disclose the spoiler here in case anyone goes back to watch.
But it remains that the killer inadvertently left an important clue in a place he must have forgotten that he touched, and that could have happened with Libby and Abby.

 

[MollyDDD]

Quoting myself for brevity, I wonder now, did the police think perhaps someone else recorded something (eg: killer or accomplice)? Did someone forget or drop something or leave something there intentionally??

Has LE ever mentioned the possibility of there being more than one person involved in this crime? That video of one of the girls faces could have been taken during her actual murder or threatening words being said to her.

 

[Cryptic]

I find it awfully convenient that after all of these years, they blame it on a dead man, who was always in plain sight.

I dont think the police are blaming it on RL.

Rather, news channels are sensationalizing and hyping their "new" material. While the material does contain some new information regarding the victims and the circumstances of the crime, the core facts regarding RL seem to be old:

- RL was not a pleasant person and lied to the police. This contributed to him being a suspect to some degree.
- An FBI search warrant was served on his residence / property.
- The search warrant yielded nothing. RL also had a plausible explanation for his lies (prevent probation officer from learning that he was driving on a suspended license).

The investigation then moved on.....

 

[photographer4]

From the video of the man walking on the bridge...I have always thought mid forties. And, sure enough, LE finally came up with a new pic and said it could be someone 18 to 40 and look younger than their age.
Always thought BG was a man who had the day off from work, or got off early in the morning. (Monday, right?)
And, IMO his walk indicated an injured/sore/sciatic left hip. It had the "lead step with the right foot and a follow-up slight drag with the left leg." (I call it step-drag, step-drag, step-drag.)
And, familiar with the area because he was a "deer hunter" at one time.... the "double S bend" of the creek is where a hunter would frequent or stalk because the water is shallower, flows slower and a place where deer can be found drinking water and cross through the slow moving current.
We have only been privy to a short voice clip, yet I feel it was a reply to a question and not a command. Maybe along the line of, "We are looking for our friend Anthony Shots, have you seen him?" And the man replies, "Yeah, down the hill." Once the girls started down the hill, he brandished a weapon, they were unable to flee back across the bridge because he now blocked their ability to run back across the bridge. BG doesn't appear to be a runner/sprinter because of his hip and had to take control quickly. Again IMO, he also had to have a lot of upper body strength if he moved the victims to a less visible area.
Since I am techno-ignorant, would it be possible to access the AnthonyShots real time communications if they had the password to get into that account? Maybe the killer thought he could get away with his crime because this was not his backyard, so to speak, but still an area with which he was familiar.
It's been 5 long years and I know LE wants to get it absolutely correct. I don't want a person to get off because, their defense is, "It's all circumstantial evidence."

I'd be surprised to learn that the kids ever asked BG anything really. We've always been told that LG took the video of his approach, perhaps secretly to conceal what she was doing and perhaps to show someone later about the weird guy they saw at the bridge. I believe that is the case, and if so, I cannot imagine the girls stopping to ask him anything. I don't know if BG issued a command to go "down the hill" or if he was directing their attention to something "down the hill". I almost think it was directing their attention because LE have said the look on one of the girl's faces was demonstrative of her fear of what she realized. So I wonder, if he directed their attention, "down the hill" - what could have been, "down the hill" that might shock or scare them?

 

[photographer4]

Just thinking out loud. Even finding an errant scalp hair at the scene would be an incredible stroke of luck as BG wore a hat.

We are all assuming he left his own hair, or the hair of an animal behind right? What if that isn't the case? What if he removed some hair from one or both kids and that is what was found? He may have cut some out, or pulled some out to keep as a trophy and in doing so, some may have been left at the scene.

 

[Diddian]

We are all assuming he left his own hair, or the hair of an animal behind right? What if that isn't the case? What if he removed some hair from one or both kids and that is what was found? He may have cut some out, or pulled some out to keep as a trophy and in doing so, some may have been left at the scene.

If he was a planner, and there are elements which indicate he was in relation to this crime, he may have even planted hair or DNA (say, a used cigarette butt or drinking container) from someone else at the scene (a former convict or offender known to be in CODIS) in an effort to lead investigators astray.

There are so many things that might explain the sudden change in direction in April 2019, but I've often wondered if it was something like this: DNA at the scene from someone who has a solidly provable alibi, so could not possibly have been there.

 

[Peppery]

Hate these posts, but does anyone have a link to LE saying they could see a look of terror on one of the girls faces?
Ive been here from the beginning, skipped a few threads, but I dont remember hearing that before. Thanks.

 

[MistyWaters]

I find it awfully convenient that after all of these years, they blame it on a dead man, who was always in plain sight.

The search warrant was from over five years ago, March 17, 2017. Who’s blaming a dead man? RL was very much alive when the search occurred and while we didn’t know specifically what LE were hoping to find during the search, a search warrant is apples and oranges to an actual murder indictment. JMO

 

[photographer4]

Has LE ever mentioned the possibility of there being more than one person involved in this crime? That video of one of the girls faces could have been taken during her actual murder or threatening words being said to her.

I'm not sure that I'd believe that they captured their own murder on video because LE have said that the video is 43s long. They've said as well there was a lot of work done to the video by various agencies to make it clearer etc (not sure if that was regarding the video or sound quality or both). It doesn't seem like there is anything else they can reveal to the public from the video or nothing else that may be useful.