Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

Tricia

Owner Websleuths.com
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2003
Messages
27,851
Reaction score
38,239
Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

delphi-suspect-sketch-ht-jef-190422_hpEmbed_5x6_992.jpg



HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at
(844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to [email protected]

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.


Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

Thread #99 Thread #100
Thread #101 Thread #102 Thread #103 Thread #104 Thread #105 Thread #106 Thread #107 Thread #108 Thread #109 Thread #110 Thread #111 Thread #112 Thread #113 Thread #114 Thread #115 Thread #116 Thread #117 Thread #118 Thread #119 Thread #120Thread #121 Thread #122 Thread #123 Thread #124 Thread #125 Thread #126 Thread #127 Thread #128 Thread #129 Thread #130 Thread #131 Thread #132 Thread #133 Thread #134 Thread #135 Thread #136 Thread #137 Thread #138 Thread #139 Thread #140 Thread #141 Thread #142 Thread #143 Thread #144 Thread #145 Thread #146


Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*

IMAGE Discussion Thread

Scanner Thread

Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION

DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sillybilly

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
32,782
Reaction score
86,596
ADMIN NOTE:

Theorizing based on some known fact sourced from MSM or LE is fine, but speculation not based on known fact is not allowed.

Also, a few reminders from TOS:

It is WS preferred policy to use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just private message a Mod or Admin for clarification.

Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

Before you post something make sure what you are stating is FACT as we know it from MSM, LE or another approved Websleuths source.

Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons are not allowed.
 

Tiff23fr

Verified Expert - Cultural & Behavioral Dynamics
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
6,808
Reaction score
49,405

StarryStarryNight

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
2,059
Reaction score
23,550
I don’t think suggestive fingerprints and touch DNA are going to put anybody behind bars in this case. They may help bolster a case against someone at trial but physical evidence is not working here. I think someone in LE a good while back actually said they had a lot of physical evidence but it doesn’t point to anybody.
This is a circumstantial case. It is a long and winding road, but eventually you have to say “we have enough” and go for it. I think that’s what we’re waiting on and we’re hoping it is soon.
 

IQuestion

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
2,028
Reaction score
7,736
Good early morning from SoCal. It should be a Federal crime to text me before 6:30 am on the one day I was supposed to sleep in! KELL1, I did pick up on the "moving around a lot" in terms of a particular type of offender. I believe the term the detective used was "things are stacking up." (I'll bring your post forward, later, ok?)
Somehow in the twilight thoughts between dreaming and awakening, I had one of those big "what if" moments. TK cut off ties to his son a couple of weeks after KAK's arrest and DNA test, right? "He is not talking to me or putting money in my commissary account, blah, blah, blah." And suddenly had a Maury Povich moment.....and it goes something like this:
"We just got the results back and TK, You-Are-Not-The-Father!" Wouldn't that be something? I had 3 clients this year alone who after years of paying child support, found out they were not the biological donor after all. In each case, they lived with the female, assumed it was their child and didn't want to "rock the boat" because everyone was so happy and in love, then. Sometimes a man doesn't even have to take a DNA test to prove they are not the donor. Many blood types are impossible combinations or a medical condition led to sterility.
 

WildHuncher

Certified Insane Amateur
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
348
Reaction score
883
well it wasn't a claim but rather the alleged leak of the unredacted document ..it was all over on fb and other places
who knows
Been musing over this problem. The document is not riddled with typos and grammar errors. It is written in crisp, Hemingway-esque, grammatically correct LEO English. I found one instance of bad punctuation, a sentence incorrectly broken into two. ("The video from the transfer station appears to be off by 26 minutes. Putting LOGAN at the transfer station from approximately 11:53 AM and 11:58 AM.") That's all I found in a rather cursory scan.

The sentence with the trophy redacted reads as follows: "It was discovered that the __________ of one of the victim's was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered."

"WAS missing." We are invited to believe that the subject of that verb is singular. "Undergarments" is plural. "Undergarments WAS missing" is wrong. "Panties and sock" is plural. "Panties and sock WAS missing" is also wrong. One might also more readily expect "panties and A sock."

Maybe the redacted word/phrase is something else. Or maybe the document contains at least two grammar mistakes. Hard to say.
 
Last edited:

M. Kay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
88
Reaction score
351
"WAS missing." We are invited to believe that the subject of that verb is singular. "Undergarments" is plural. "Undergarments WAS missing" is wrong. "Panties and sock" is plural. "Panties and sock WAS missing" is also wrong. One might also more readily expect "panties and A sock."
The day the bodies of AW and LG were still on the ground with helicopters circling, the communications were broadcast; all could hear them say what undergarment was "just found beneath the bridge", not at scene across water.
 

WildHuncher

Certified Insane Amateur
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
348
Reaction score
883
The day the bodies of AW and LG were still on the ground with helicopters circling, the communications were broadcast; all could hear them say what undergarment was "just found beneath the bridge", not at scene across water.
That's another question. Was the missing thing NEVER recovered or just not recovered right there at the scene?
 

sandy_80

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
569
Reaction score
3,303
The day the bodies of AW and LG were still on the ground with helicopters circling, the communications were broadcast; all could hear them say what undergarment was "just found beneath the bridge", not at scene across water.
those were not identified in the transmission as if belonging to the victims
******
i also dont find grammars in the doc as a hint.. most of the le docs ive read are grammatically flawed someway
 

WildHuncher

Certified Insane Amateur
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
348
Reaction score
883
those were not identified in the transmission as if belonging to the victims
******
i also dont find grammars in the doc as a hint.. most of the le docs ive read are grammatically flawed someway
This particular document strikes me as generally very well written, the product of some care. If it were riddled with easily noticeable errors that would be another thing, IMHO.

The essence of sleuthing is spotting signal in the noise and it's often a tough call. You don't want to make too much out of a subtle little clue, but neither do you want to be blind to it.

One possibility mentioned earlier is "underwear." That's singular. It fits the sentence as written. But it may be too few letters.
 

WildHuncher

Certified Insane Amateur
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
348
Reaction score
883
It appears we're looking for a word or phrase of 15 or 16 letters. It takes the space of 16 letters on the line below it. However, the typographic width varies depending upon the letter so it's not certain.
 

Attachments

  • Redacted Trophy Phrade.jpg
    Redacted Trophy Phrade.jpg
    7.5 KB · Views: 32

IQuestion

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
2,028
Reaction score
7,736
Having researched "older felon/younger felon" (There she goes again with that wolf thing....) teaching the younger protégé the ropes. I remembered John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo, the Beltway Snipers. John Allen Muhammad was NOT his biological father, but he assumed the role and trained him in hate and murder. (Where ya' going with this?) I am thinking the interview with KAK was "planned incorrectly." If as ISP Carter stated, "for you this is about power." then perhaps the interviewer should have been a female not a male. A male challenging his "power" just made him dig his heels in deeper and ended up with no new revelations other than, "grandpa was there." (BTW, I think GF was the alibi no one bother to test early on.) Obviously, females are KAK's kryptonite. He mentions fondly the "motherly" interviewer, but did not like the other guy. I have looked for pics of Det. V, (no luck) but I can only imagine: smart, crisp, nice hair, in charge, suit & tie, gainfully employed....all the things KAK is not and never will be. I'm thinking KAK resented him the second he walked in the room.
Ever heard of June Boyd? Lee Malvo told her everything, actually had him eating out of her hand! (literally and figuratively) "She arranged his food, she sent out for veggie burgers, for boxes of raisins, at one point sitting with a handful of raisins as he took them one by one and ate them. She got him to open up, to really start talking..."
 

Ursamajr

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
680
Reaction score
4,729
That's another question. Was the missing thing NEVER recovered or just not recovered right there at the scene?
Don't know.

After all the talk about was taken and what the redacted word was and then knowing that undergarments were recovered in the river... I'm wondering if BG dropped them there on his way out of the area.
 

JnRyan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
5,013
Reaction score
21,383
I doubt that LE has a person in their sights but don't have enough evidence. Although it has happened before like in one missing person case I followed, Teresa Butler, in MO. LE made an arrest after 13 years and surprised everyone by stating that he was their only suspect from the beginning when they never stated they had a suspect.

However, I would not be at all surprised if LE has a list of possibles from the volume of tips submitted and that this list is (1) likely to be a few dozen or more, (2) not set in stone as names are deleted and others added. (The brother of one of the Colonial Parkway Murder victims, Bill Thomas, once stated on his "Mind Over Murder" podcast that the FBI told him their list of 'probables' was over 150.) I also would not be surprised if the killer turns out to be someone LE moved on from early on due to a misstep, poor interview or false alibi. In any event, I believe LE already has the killer's name but he is buried in there with the 60,000 to 70,000 tips. LE were all over RL when there were 15 tips on him in the beginning. Maybe this killer was the subject of only one or two tips living 75 to 100 miles away and that in itself may not catch the attention of investigators like a county resident with a half dozen tips.
 

UnapologeticallyAspie

Shark Fanatic, Crazy Penny Lady, Maniac 4 Makeup
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
8,998
I've gone back and forth between two personal POIs. From the very early days, I really thought RL was suspicious, but as time passed, and LE didn't confirm my idea, I moved on. Since the KK a_shots info was revealed, I have been of the mind that if it looks like a duck and smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck...then the person who was a known CSAM criminal who was in contact with one of the victims right before they were killed is the duck. (Having said that, I admit that reading the LE evidence on RL made me rethink a bit.) So what do I think is the issue with no arrests? IMO perhaps the DNA they have doesn't match KK. Or maybe the DNA was compromised and so it is not able to be used as evidence. ALL MY OPINION ONLY.
RBBM for focus:

When you say that you moved on do you mean that in your mind you decided to move on because LE didn’t confirm your idea of who the perpetrator(s) is? (Or something else, entirely?)

Because if that’s the case IMO, I personally would not have moved on. Well not completely anyway. I would’ve still kept him in the back of my mind as a possible suspect, but that’s just me. Also, that’s not to say that I wouldn’t have entertained the possibility of other potential suspects/POIs, because I would have.

Knowing what we know now, and you having read LE evidence on RL, has this changed your mind at all? You said that after reading the evidence, that it made you rethink things (RL) a bit. Would you mind sharing with us if you’ve gone back to your original thought/hunch about RL having some kind of part in this case, even in the slightest? Or no? Or even something else?

If you do decide to share your thoughts, thank you in advance!

(Always MOO. IMHO. YMMV. JMVHO.)
 

UnapologeticallyAspie

Shark Fanatic, Crazy Penny Lady, Maniac 4 Makeup
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
8,998
The affidavit stated that it was never recovered.

JMO
Please correct me if I’m wrong, the affidavit was from 2017?

Because IMHO if that is the case then there’s the possibility that the missing thing has since been recovered since.

(Always MOO. IMHO. YMMV. JMVHO.)
 

Yemelyan

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2017
Messages
2,996
Reaction score
27,457
That's another question. Was the missing thing NEVER recovered or just not recovered right there at the scene?
IMO, no way are they listing something in the warrant for RL's property that they already found a month prior in the creek.

I don't find it out of the realm of possibility that some items of clothing (even, perhaps, undergarments) were recovered in the creek while other items of clothing remained missing. Just because some underwear, for example, were possibly found by searchers in the creek does not mean that other items of underwear were not taken by the offender. We have two victims here.
 

UnapologeticallyAspie

Shark Fanatic, Crazy Penny Lady, Maniac 4 Makeup
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
8,998
Thumbs down on chadwell but that's my opinion.
If you mean thumbs down on Chadwell as being their killer, ITA.

But, IMHO, I wouldn’t rule him out as someone who received images from the dropbox. And IF perhaps this was the case, I would believe that’s one of the reasons why LE stated that he was a POI. (And/or that he was somehow, even in the teeniest tiniest way, connected to the Ks)

(Always MOO. IMHO. IMHAspieO. YMMV. JMVHO.)
 
Top