Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #90

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rallibella

    Rallibella Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I just can’t shake the feeling that this is someone known well to at least one victim’s family.
     
    8paws, Carja7, atmh and 45 others like this.
  2. Dre

    Dre Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    7,472
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Since this sketch has been around since the beginning... I’m wondering if police ALSO thought this witness sketch was not the man in the video, doesn’t seem too similar imo. Is it possible enough people called to tell them about a specific person, possibly their voice or something triggered them, and this specific person may look just like this original sketch? If I were the police or the family, it would be completely upsetting to realize this...
     
    dansbia, 8paws, Subiechik21 and 15 others like this.
  3. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    56,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Okay, here are my thoughts:

    * I used to think this was a crime of opportunity, but I don't think so anymore. I think the perp parked at that building and waited for the girls to be dropped off. I think he purposely was there because he knew they would be there. When he finished the crime, he walked back to his car and drove away.

    * I think the LE officer scoped out the room at the very beginning of his speech and saw who they think is the perp. I think he was already emotional after talking to the family, but then it really hurt him to see the perp in the room.

    * The timing of the press conference now makes sense to me. With the Easter holiday, they released the news about the press conference in advance knowing the perp would be nervous about it all weekend. LE likely knew he would be participating in church events over the weekend. For regular-church goers, there could have been many church services - Good Friday, Easter vigil, Easter morning - lots of opportunities to reflect on sins, to think about forgiveness, to appear "pious," to stand out to family if acting differently.

    * The officer said to watch the mannerisms of BG but not to pay attention to the walk because of the dangerous bridge conditions. So the only mannerism to notice would be hands in pockets?

    * The girls were likely posed in some demeaning way, and I think it ties in with the timing of the press conference - the day after the holiest of holidays for Christians. The officer emphatically stated the girls were not like the way they were left anymore. To a Christian, the girls are now in heaven, they are whole, and they are with God and at peace...so something about the way they were left seems to suggest the opposite.

    * Some of the officer's statements seemed like "acting" in a way - like at the beginning when he said he will never forget how supportive the town was to the family. And at the end when he said he will always think of the girls. I don't mean acting as in faking - I believe he TRULY MEANT those statements, but that the statements seemed very, very deliberately made, as if to say to the killer, I know who you are and you're no longer fooling anyone.

    * The perp may appear younger than his years makes me also think a "wholesome" person - not someone who drinks or smokes, for example, which can age a person's looks.

    * Perhaps the family left because they couldn't stand the possibility of being in the same room as the perp. That might have been too much for them. I'm curious about the 2-week ban on interviews - I get the idea and totally understand, but wonder if "2 weeks" of silences is a message? Is the perp someone who takes vows of silence on religious retreats, for example? (I know this idea might be a stretch.)

    * I now wonder if the girls knew the perp. Seems likely? That is not something I seriously considered previously.

    * Like others have said, it seems likely he has been part of the investigation - perhaps as a searcher or as a support/comfort provider to LE, family, etc. Yuck.

    I have more on my mind, but that's long enough! I hope for an arrest soon. Oh happy day that will be.

    jmo




    *
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
    dansbia, Midnight_Fox, 8paws and 88 others like this.
  4. zencompass

    zencompass May today be the day. Justice for Abby and Libby.

    Messages:
    4,498
    Likes Received:
    21,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dear Han,

    Knowing that the authorities have a witness strengthens my belief that this investigation team will solve this soon.

    The press conference ensured that this case was brought front and center on the news stations and the ensuing public discourse is essential for any investigation. For this reason, I am so glad that a statement was made today.

    It is possible that the investigators will uncover the evidence necessary to lead to the perpetrator of this horrific crime without the benefit of DNA.

    Today's press conference was very interesting to me. It made me wonder if somehow the cell phone tower dump lead to their suspicions about the vehicle parked at the building.

    I realize of course that the investigative team are keeping most of what they have discovered to themselves, in order to protect this investigation.

    There's no doubt in my mind that this law enforcement team is committed to solving this case and determined to do so.

    The press conference today made me feel like there's momentum in this investigation.
     
    8paws, Laughing, JDough and 21 others like this.
  5. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,522
    Likes Received:
    34,559
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Just a general reminder- We can’t accuse or sleuth victim’s families it is against Websleuths rules. I really don’t want this thread shut down indefinitely.
     
  6. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,442
    Likes Received:
    8,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I may be alone on this but I just can't get over the fact that a man in a town of 2,882 would go to a popular bridge and abduct and murder 2 girls and not be recognized. I grew up in a small town and everyone knew everyone! IMO, for no one to have recognized this man at the scene, he was most likely from out of town. Or was wearing something to disguise his identity.
     
    8paws, Claudius, CuriousinNY and 32 others like this.
  7. Maplesyrup

    Maplesyrup Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I listened again to Doug Carter in the news conference today. What caught my attention was around the 7 minute mark when he said that the FAMILY just found this information out today. He again stated FAMILY. Clearly there are two families involved. Why did he say the FAMILY?? I do wonder if the person is known to ONE of the families? I have another thought regarding the mention of the movie "The Shack." That comment was so randomly introduced. I recall during the Washington DC sniper case, the police chief was told by the sniper to reference certain subjects when he spoke to the media. I have been wondering if the killer has somehow been in contact with LE [he could use the dark web to conceal his identity or perhaps some other method]. The mention of the vehicle also makes me wonder. If the vehicle was abandoned, LE could easily locate the VIN on the dash. If it is removed, many car parts have the VIN or other identifying numbers. This would allow the owner/previous owners to be tracked down. Again I wonder if the vehicle was supposed to be mentioned as part of this news conference? If the vehicle was so important to LE, then why didn't they describe the make/model/color? How many times have we seen police hunting a certain vehicle and they use a stock photo as an example to show what they are looking for? Many people have speculated that Doug Carter was talking directly to the killer. He was highly emotional, his face became red. I am concerned that if this killer committed these brutal murders, what is to stop him from repeating and killing again. I have other thoughts but for now will post the ones I mentioned above.
     
  8. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    93
    A couple of random thoughts:
    Similarities between the two sketches - at first I thought, "WTH - it looks like a completely different person!" But thanks to the side-by-side images I actually do see some strong similarities which have also been noted in some other posts. The nose, eyes, eye brows and cheek lines are very similar. The very different chin shape/line could be because the facial hair can "camouflage" the try lines.

    I think it is quite likely LE does have a specific person on their radar and that the things said in the PC were specifically chosen to make him uncomfortable. I also think there is a father-son connection - possibly an adult son is the killer and the father has a connection to LE. The father could have friends in LE and/or be in some aspect of LE, such as a corrections officer or something.

    The comment about the killer possibly having a little bit of a conscience left could also be being directed at the father - maybe trying to appeal to the father's conscience to turn the son in and/or also trying to convince the father that LE doesn't see the son as being completely evil (even if he is).

    Lastly, I think LE will be closely watching the person(s) on their radar - looking for any changes in behavior, stress, suicide attempt or even for them becoming a victim of someone who has also realized who he is. I don't think LE will have disclosed to the family who the person is. A few years ago the elderly uncle of a friend of mine went missing. Several months after he disappeared the uncle's granddaughter's boyfriend was arrested. He was convicted of murdering the elderly man and burying his body in the killer's aunt's back yard. My friend's family wished they had been told about the impending arrest saying that if they had known there never would have been a trial.
     
  9. Trudie

    Trudie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,516
    Likes Received:
    40,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is very weird with such low pop’, he remains at large. I mentioned on the last thread, eliminate women, children, elderly & non Caucasian male, how many men are left?
    Moo
    I do think his ID will be a surprise to all of us.
     
    8paws, Subiechik21, neesaki and 14 others like this.
  10. Rallibella

    Rallibella Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I have no one in mind and wasn’t going to post anyone. I just didn’t use to think this was someone known. Always thought it was random.
     
    8paws, La Louve, heyjudette and 16 others like this.
  11. itsrak

    itsrak Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    1,336
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Having walked across railroad trestles like this one, I believe the odd gait simply reflects that the guy was having to step from tie to tie. If you step wrong, your foot goes between ties and you can take a bad fall.
     
    ZionNaP, Amonet, MsFacetious and 16 others like this.
  12. Mrs. Grueby

    Mrs. Grueby Active Member

    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I hear you on all of your points, but....

    re: the abandoned car
    I think the “witness” might have connected the car to the new sketch of the suspect... which we recently learned was drawn on the 17th. So that connection was fresh in the witness’ memory. Maybe LE is trying to connect the vehicle to the new sketch to BG. Just my opinion.
     
  13. mi_hiker

    mi_hiker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    63
    A few thoughts. All very much MOO.

    Agree with all of you that stated this press conference was calculated and targeted directly at the killer.

    Carter looked genuinely agitated and emotional. Could be a ruse but it seemed genuine. I believe they have uncovered new information that is making them look at someone they had previously dismissed or at least moved to the bottom of the pile. This person is either a respected person associated with the community or close to one of the families or law enforcement. To me it was almost as if Carter knew the suspected killer personally and was still in shock and disbelief. Could also explain the supposed angry/tearful reaction from close family.

    As to why this new old sketch wasn’t released earlier, two thoughts 1) maybe the person had a reason to be at the trail and had a valid alibi that said he was with them during the important window of events, 2) maybe they’re just learning that BG was wearing a disguise, bulky clothes, hat to hide distinct hair, and most importantly facial hair. I don’t think a facial disguise is highly likely, just trying to make sense of it all.

    One thing that stood out to me was referring to a change in direction/tactic (sorry, don’t have exact quote at the moment) and how the killer wouldn’t be expecting this new tactic. Is the new tactic dusting off an old sketch that was originally ruled out? Are they expecting a family member who provided an alibi to feel guilt and turn them in (or at least admit they weren’t with them during that time)? Edited to add: maybe the anger displayed at the press conference wasn’t so much with the killer (stick with me) but at the person who has been covering for the killer. What if that person is respected or close to family and all this time they were covering because they were in denial. So many new questions.
     
  14. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain’t the Ones Beneath the Bed

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    197,009
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There’s a bit of an in between here.

    Perhaps he benefited from that initial sketch, as it didn’t look much like him.

    That grainy image of BG, may have also served him well.

    If he didn’t live in that town, I think he was very familiar with it.
     
    8paws, Laughing, La Louve and 22 others like this.
  15. Salt_

    Salt_ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    385
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I don't think they sat on this sketch for 2 years. I think the first sketch released is the perp, as is the second with changed facial maintenance. There had to have been some new evidence come to light to reveal the new sketch, same with the request for tips about the car.
     
  16. Mountain Misst

    Mountain Misst FA in Aus.

    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes Received:
    1,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Apologies for banging on about the use of the term us - 'guys, down the hill'.
    I can't get my head around a sexual predator using the cross-gender term of 'guys' to his potential female victims. If he's a sexual predator, imo he'd be fixated on the endgame, not being Joe-cool. Imo, he would be much more likely to use a female tag - eg 'girls'.

    Sexual predators are not known to cross gender in their preference of victim... unless of course the seduction is not sexually motivated and became more complex as time passed..
     
    Subiechik21, dotr, cpeacock1 and 4 others like this.
  17. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    56,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, it was a VERY targeted statement and he knew BG would know what he meant. Doesn't matter that the public doesn't get the reference.

    Was that movie shown recently at church? Was the book or movie given to LE by someone following the case? Did a pastor mention it in a sermon recently?

    Is there an actual shack in this case where evidence was found???

    jmo
     
  18. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain’t the Ones Beneath the Bed

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    197,009
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, but the expression may be a standard part of his language, a word said without much thought.

    I don’t think he was trying to sound cool, I think he was just talking in a way that was natural for him.
     
  19. jashrema

    jashrema Verified insider - Sierah Joughin case

    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    1,650
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good point about that small of a town, and no one recognizes him? Particularly since LE states they think he is a resident, altho he could be living elsewhere and come back to "visit". I'm thinking by saying he may appear younger means "babyfaced", which some men are. They're 40 and still look 25.
    I too, am stymied over holding on to this sketch for 2 years. Reminds me of the case where a woman was kidnapped from a gas station/convenience shop and it was caught on camera. LE put out that it was a guy in his late teens or 20's wearing a sweatshirt/jogging and spent a LOT of time looking for a man like that when in reality it was an older guy40-50 wearing a baseball jersey (Which I could see the first time I saw tape!)
    The look at his mannerisms was strange because there are NO mannerisms to look at with a 1 second clip (hands in pockets?) that's a mannerism? I am really failing to see why a longer clip of him walking wasn't released.
     
  20. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    26,539
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Former FBI, IMPD investigators explain how new sketch in Delphi murders could help solve case
    “Investigators say the new sketch more accurately depicts the face of the man responsible for the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.

    One former investigator with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and another with the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department both agree, sketches are not an exact science, but they could still help solve the case.

    “Sketches are worthwhile, but you never want to take it at 100 percent value and think they have to look exactly like the sketch, because they won’t,” said retired IMPD homicide captain, Robert Snow.....

    .....Doug Kouns retired from the FBI last year. He didn’t work on the Delphi double murder and doesn’t know what information led state police to develop the new suspect sketch, showing a man who appears to be significantly younger than a sketch police released two years ago.

    “I think they look like different people,” said Kouns. “What one person and sees and remembers may be different from what another person sees. It may be the same person they’re talking about, it may not be.”

    “Sketches in any crime can be tricky because they’re not photographs,” said Snow....”
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice