Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[jkloc420]

They must not have dna in this case because if they did the new genealogy stuff would be a good thing to use in this case. Unless LE is just stubborn and refusing to use it.

 

[MassGuy]

Certain characteristics of BG remind me of Dennis Rader (BTK) in Wichita, KS. He, too, was very good at compartmentalizing, hiding in plain sight in a small city environment while remaining active in his church, as a scout leader, at work, with family, etc. The profiler said BG probably fantasized about a murder scenario before he took Abby and Libby that day. Rader did something similar in that he chose his victim, stalked them and planned the attack before finally carrying it out.

The active fantasy life and re-enacting the previous crime is what keeps them from attacking again when the police are watching. It's possible BG will eventually attack again if he's not caught.

Rader was organized, and even then, things didn’t always according to plan.

He made some huge mistakes in his first murders, ones that he rectified going forward.

I don’t think this guy is of the organized variety, but he definitely has fantasies.

 

[MuddyTires]

Weeeelllll... isn’t that sort of like saying: “other than the religious overtones, where are the religious overtones?”

I do agree that we on WS are over-emphasizing them, just as we over-analyze the ‘guys’ in BG’s speech, and the glitch in his step.

Lol - yep.

It was poorly written on my part!

I don't really think those are religious overtones, particularly in the way people have been running with them here. I think he saw a movie recently and it made an imprint on him given his involvement in the case, and so he mentioned it. And I think next part is just a general appeal to conscience.

Ultimately, my point is that we keep hearing about the religion that was in the PC and that it has some meaning, but I don't see any emphasis or focus on religion so I don't get why it's almost become fact that religion was front and center. If there's religion, it's barely there - a few words out of nearly 1,000.

 

[Amandaaa]

So I've been thinking about the "new" sketch.

I would be absolutely horrible at accurately describing someone for a sketch. I'm totally certain the facial features would be completely off - unless there was something really distinctive (crooked nose, striking eyes, birthmark, scar...) - but I think I would stand a better chance of reasonably describing the hair. Especially if it was somewhat unusual.

IMO, most men I come across have short, straight (or possibly wavy) hair. Anything other than that - a shaved head, long hair or thick, curly hair - would stand out to me. And I am nearly 100% certain I would be able to pick out a wig, even from a distance. I have never, EVER seen a man with a wig (or a hairpiece) that looked totally convincing. And I would *absolutely* mention that detail to the sketch artist.

If the witness had no recollection of BG's hair (or really just wasn't sure) I would find it strange for the artist to include a full head of somewhat distinctive, curly hair. Why not skip the hair altogether, and just draw BG with a hoodie or hat (per the video)?

JMO, as always

 

[ab01]

Having lived in a little town in Wisconsin after growing up in Pasadena and Seattle, I can see this very well. There a basically 2 kinds of people as fat as LE is concerned. The “good “ones who have jobs and go to church and attend the pancake breakfast, and the ones who live out on the outskirts of town, have five cars in their front yard, and are probably addicted to something. We know there are so many more facets, but this is basically how small towns are divided up. They have been looking for the crazy Punisher hoodie dudes instead of the ones who show up to every parade to help hand out hot chocolate to the kids. That’s the hiding in plain state park.

This isn’t a local small town pd investigation

This has multiple agencies far and wide

 

[MassGuy]

They must not have dna in this case because if they did the new genealogy stuff would be a good thing to use in this case. Unless LE is just stubborn and refusing to use it.

There’s a couple possibilities:

The DNA is not of the quality needed to go that route.

They’re in the process of doing this, but it has yet to yield results.

I don’t for a second, believe that this task force wouldn’t have done this, if they had the ability to do so.

They want to nail this monster as badly as the public wants them to.

 

[marisab67]

This isn’t a local small town pd investigation

This has multiple agencies far and wide

I understand that but when you’re talking about a small town and who they are side-eying, it’s the Walmart shoppers, not the ones who go to Target. If you live in a small town like this you know exactly what I mean.

 

[NancyDrew3]

That image gave me the creeps. I dismissed it as artifacts and our brain wanting to see patterns in everything. You think it might be BG laying in wait under the bridge?

I’ve used the free app Snapseed to highlight the warm tones and then magnify both the forward concrete block and the area with the apparent face. It appears the sunlit concrete is not the same tone as the face. This is for those that sent me images of the concrete bridge posts and said it is these, without any further image analysis. I am an engineer with some image analysis background and what I was asking previously was if anyone on WS had done a high quality image analysis on that area using an image analysis S/W package. I will also look through the 47 page image thread link sent to me. What else bothers me about Libby’s photo is that Abby does not appear to be in clear focus. The clear focus appears to be the area in the lower bottom left part of the photo. I don’t know how to take a photo like Libby took without intentionally aiming lower without appearing to do so. You can see the nail in the wood plank bottom left very clearly for instance but Abby is less focused. Why would that be if Libby was reputed to be a good photographer? (MSM on that reputation needed.)

 

[jkloc420]

There’s a couple possibilities:

The DNA is not of the quality needed to go that route.

They’re in the process of doing this, but it has yet to yield results.

I don’t for a second, believe that this task force wouldn’t have done this, if they had the ability to do so.

They want to nail this monster as badly as the public wants them to.

Could be bad dna

 

[housewife]

In my opinion, here’s my profile of the suspect. Most of this is based on statistics from https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/pr/201316.pdf

He’s a white male, average age of 27 (I think he’s on the younger side of the wide age range they gave us for BG, due to his voice and word choice. He doesn’t have a grizzled old man voice to me. And his word choice of “guys” when addressing two girls.)

He is most likely single (big surprise) and living with parents looking at statistics. Also there is a 50% chance he’s unemployed (child abductors have a much higher rate of unemployment compared to gen pop).

Can someone look at dating profiles of men based in Delphi on apps like Tinder or Plenty of Fish? I sense he might be Christian because of the press conference wording.

Can we search men receiving unemployment checks in Delphi, or disability checks, or any man who has submitted a recent change of address for said checks?

Reviewing the video, I don’t think BG has any walking/leg problems, personally. I grew up exploring forested areas and that’s just how you step carefully on rough terrain so you don’t accidentally trip. Also, he has his hands in his pockets the whole time! I agree with Bobby Chacon! If you are trying to cross old, uneven, weathered railroad ties, you would naturally have your arms hanging loosely at your sides. Keeping both hands in pockets tells me he’s hiding/holding stuff in the jacket. And I agree that shadows indicate it might be a handgun in his right hand. I get the sense that something is also hidden in his pants, too, along his thigh possibly? He may have brought binding material (rope, tape) with him as well.

Stats also say he is most likely a stranger to these girls with no prior contact.

The press conference made me think that “how you left them” was very important. Most child murders are concealed in some way by the suspect. I’m conflicted as to what that means. Were the girls posed or unnecessarily disfigured? I’m intrigued by how the girls’ bodies were transported to the site where they were found. Were there drag marks? Were the girls alive and then killed at the site? Any footprints/boot prints in the soil? Evidence of what binding material used? I want to know so much more about the crime scene.

He did this to feel powerful. He may have a history of sexual problems. There may not be much DNA at the crime scene at all, he may not have been able to ejaculate. He is likely to have a history of violent crimes. Bringing his own weapons tells me he had planned ahead or possibly done this before. It is very likely he bound his victims (because he had two to control), and brought the binding with him. Victims were most likely strangled. It’s possible that conflict with a female in his life precipitated this event.

 

[ab01]

I understand that but when you’re talking about a small town and who they are side-eying, it’s the Walmart shoppers, not the ones who go to Target. If you live in a small town like this you know exactly what I mean.

I do and I agree to disagree

 

[TTF14]

Thank you so much for doing all this work! I, and I’m sure others, really appreciate it.

I'd like to ditto this! Thank you so much, ChooChoo!

 

[x_files]

I’ve used the free app Snapseed to highlight the warm tones and then magnify both the forward concrete block and the area with the apparent face. It appears the sunlit concrete is not the same tone as the face. This is for those that sent me images of the concrete bridge posts and said it is these, without any further image analysis. I am an engineer with some image analysis background and what I was asking previously was if anyone on WS had done a high quality image analysis on that area using an image analysis S/W package. I will also look through the 47 page image thread link sent to me. What else bothers me about Libby’s photo is that Abby does not appear to be in clear focus. The clear focus appears to be the area in the lower bottom left part of the photo. I don’t know how to take a photo like Libby took without intentionally aiming lower without appearing to do so. You can see the nail in the wood plank bottom left very clearly for instance but Abby is less focused. Why would that be if Libby was reputed to be a good photographer? (MSM on that reputation needed.)

without a doubt it's creepy.

 

[crhedBngr]

In my opinion, here’s my profile of the suspect. Most of this is based on statistics from https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/pr/201316.pdf

He’s a white male, average age of 27 (I think he’s on the younger side of the wide age range they gave us for BG, due to his voice and word choice. He doesn’t have a grizzled old man voice to me. And his word choice of “guys” when addressing two girls.)

He is most likely single (big surprise) and living with parents looking at statistics. Also there is a 50% chance he’s unemployed (child abductors have a much higher rate of unemployment compared to gen pop).

Can someone look at dating profiles of men based in Delphi on apps like Tinder or Plenty of Fish? I sense he might be Christian because of the press conference wording.

Can we search men receiving unemployment checks in Delphi, or disability checks, or any man who has submitted a recent change of address for said checks?

Reviewing the video, I don’t think BG has any walking/leg problems, personally. I grew up exploring forested areas and that’s just how you step carefully on rough terrain so you don’t accidentally trip. Also, he has his hands in his pockets the whole time! I agree with Bobby Chacon! If you are trying to cross old, uneven, weathered railroad ties, you would naturally have your arms hanging loosely at your sides. Keeping both hands in pockets tells me he’s hiding/holding stuff in the jacket. And I agree that shadows indicate it might be a handgun in his right hand. I get the sense that something is also hidden in his pants, too, along his thigh possibly? He may have brought binding material (rope, tape) with him as well.

Stats also say he is most likely a stranger to these girls with no prior contact.

The press conference made me think that “how you left them” was very important. Most child murders are concealed in some way by the suspect. I’m conflicted as to what that means. Were the girls posed or unnecessarily disfigured? I’m intrigued by how the girls’ bodies were transported to the site where they were found. Were there drag marks? Were the girls alive and then killed at the site? Any footprints/boot prints in the soil? Evidence of what binding material used? I want to know so much more about the crime scene.

He did this to feel powerful. He may have a history of sexual problems. There may not be much DNA at the crime scene at all, he may not have been able to ejaculate. He is likely to have a history of violent crimes. Bringing his own weapons tells me he had planned ahead or possibly done this before. It is very likely he bound his victims (because he had two to control), and brought the binding with him. Victims were most likely strangled. It’s possible that conflict with a female in his life precipitated this event.

Welcome, @housewife ! Love your avatar, by the way.

Great first post!

 

[Spartygirl]

So if he parked at the lot where the welfare building was, he would have no choice but to walk on the road? Is there no access to the woods other than that?

There is a little PATH, off the road, in the grass, right along side the road--he would not have to walk in road, just along side it on the path off the side..The path goes from the parking lot right up to the entrance of the trails. If he did NOT follow the path to the beginning entrance of trails, then he would either have to walk on the road or in the grass, weeds and woods, at least until he got to the spot where the girls were dropped off, then he could access the trails from there.

 

[x_files]

In my opinion, here’s my profile of the suspect. Most of this is based on statistics from https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/pr/201316.pdf

He’s a white male, average age of 27 (I think he’s on the younger side of the wide age range they gave us for BG, due to his voice and word choice. He doesn’t have a grizzled old man voice to me. And his word choice of “guys” when addressing two girls.)

He is most likely single (big surprise) and living with parents looking at statistics. Also there is a 50% chance he’s unemployed (child abductors have a much higher rate of unemployment compared to gen pop).

Can someone look at dating profiles of men based in Delphi on apps like Tinder or Plenty of Fish? I sense he might be Christian because of the press conference wording.

Can we search men receiving unemployment checks in Delphi, or disability checks, or any man who has submitted a recent change of address for said checks?

Reviewing the video, I don’t think BG has any walking/leg problems, personally. I grew up exploring forested areas and that’s just how you step carefully on rough terrain so you don’t accidentally trip. Also, he has his hands in his pockets the whole time! I agree with Bobby Chacon! If you are trying to cross old, uneven, weathered railroad ties, you would naturally have your arms hanging loosely at your sides. Keeping both hands in pockets tells me he’s hiding/holding stuff in the jacket. And I agree that shadows indicate it might be a handgun in his right hand. I get the sense that something is also hidden in his pants, too, along his thigh possibly? He may have brought binding material (rope, tape) with him as well.

Stats also say he is most likely a stranger to these girls with no prior contact.

The press conference made me think that “how you left them” was very important. Most child murders are concealed in some way by the suspect. I’m conflicted as to what that means. Were the girls posed or unnecessarily disfigured? I’m intrigued by how the girls’ bodies were transported to the site where they were found. Were there drag marks? Were the girls alive and then killed at the site? Any footprints/boot prints in the soil? Evidence of what binding material used? I want to know so much more about the crime scene.

He did this to feel powerful. He may have a history of sexual problems. There may not be much DNA at the crime scene at all, he may not have been able to ejaculate. He is likely to have a history of violent crimes. Bringing his own weapons tells me he had planned ahead or possibly done this before. It is very likely he bound his victims (because he had two to control), and brought the binding with him. Victims were most likely strangled. It’s possible that conflict with a female in his life precipitated this event.

agreed.
I do think he has a sexual dysfunction/disability issues and rage towards women. I also wonder if he was sexually abused as a child. Has momma issues. Is mother too controlling and overbearing? Father submissive but resentful of wife his mother?

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Are psychopaths by nature planners? I am not qualified to answer this question but I thought I would ask and see if anyone else here wants to answer. I am not stating that he is one, I am just thinking out loud based on recent discussion.

JMO
I am still on the fence on whether or not this was his first violent crime. I think that in his everyday life, he has an outlet of sorts that allows him to be in a position of power as well as to have full control of those around him and he thrives on it.

I believe that in the year before the crime, he had a taste of what it was like to make a person very, very afraid of him and this triggered his need to try again on a much larger scale.

I strongly believe that he had this planned out everything in advance. I think he visited those trails and the bridge regularly many times before he did this, and knew where he was going to take his victim(s) to commit his crime. I don't think his original intent was to take two victims, but when the opportunity arose, he couldn't resist the urge to do it.

I think he planned where he was going to park and where he was going to stand get the best vantage point to see who was headed to the bridge and then seized his opportunity to follow them.

He came prepared with what he needed to use to control his victims, to keep them quiet (this is an *advertiser censored*umption) and what he needed to use to end their lives.

He did not plan on getting caught, but I believe that he will be.

 

[Inthedetails]

The profiler said BG probably fantasized about a murder scenario before he took Abby and Libby that day. Rader did something similar in that he chose his victim, stalked them and planned the attack before finally carrying it out.

Snipped and bolded.

Wow - this jumps out at me as entirely possible. I have been thinking BG is a planner - that he was able to carry of what seems like a first murder so quickly in the open without getting caught because he played it over and over in his mind. But there was a missing part in my theory....and I think you hit on it. Perhaps part of BG's plan wasn't just planning the crime, but selecting the targets, stalking them....and knowing precisely the time and place to strike.

IDK of course, but your post makes a lot of sense to me.

jmo

 

[marisab67]

So I've been thinking about the "new" sketch.

I would be absolutely horrible at accurately describing someone for a sketch. I'm totally certain the facial features would be completely off - unless there was something really distinctive (crooked nose, striking eyes, birthmark, scar...) - but I think I would stand a better chance of reasonably describing the hair. Especially if it was somewhat unusual.

IMO, most men I come across have short, straight (or possibly wavy) hair. Anything other than that - a shaved head, long hair or thick, curly hair - would stand out to me. And I am nearly 100% certain I would be able to pick out a wig, even from a distance. I have never, EVER seen a man with a wig (or a hairpiece) that looked totally convincing. And I would *absolutely* mention that detail to the sketch artist.

If the witness had no recollection of BG's hair (or really just wasn't sure) I would find it strange for the artist to include a full head of somewhat distinctive, curly hair. Why not skip the hair altogether, and just draw BG with a hoodie or hat (per the video)?

JMO, as always

This is 1,000,000% true because my husband has Mark Ruffalo hair and when I trim it short he blends in 1,000,000% until it grows out and then he’s one of those guys with amazing hair that everyone loves that is also very unusual and would probably be the first thing anyone noticed about him.

 

[marisab67]

I do and I agree to disagree

See how we can all get along. So much more civilized than Twitter.