Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams & Liberty (Libby) German - The Delphi Murders - #149

[raja]

@MistyWaters, here is something that really bothers me about KAK's charges. Even if we disregard the interview, we do still have the search affidavit from 2/25/17. In it, you can read on pg. 3 where Det. DV talks about the 5/14/16 chat between emilyanne and another user about dropbox links. This date correlates with a few of KAK's exploitation and possession charges. That is from the iPhone 4, which Det. DV also states includes CSAM of children between ages 3 and 11 years old.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

So here's what gets me. If KAK's device had CSAM of children between 3 and 11 years old, then why does he not have charges representing that? His 2016 charges are all F5 level with no aggravating factors. *Sidenote: he DOES have F4 level charges with aggravating factors on his 2/17/17 and 2/25/17 charges (c)(1) - does not include letter to specify.

2017 Indiana Code :: TITLE 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: ARTICLE 42. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON :: CHAPTER 4. Sex Crimes :: 35-42-4-4. Child exploitation; possession of child *advertiser censored*; exemptions; defenses
IC 35-42-4-4

(c) However, the offense of child exploitation described in subsection (b) is a Level 4 felony if:
(1) the sexual conduct, matter, performance, or incident depicts or describes a child less than eighteen (18) years of age who:
(A) engages in bestiality (as described in IC 35-46-3-14);
(B) is mentally disabled or deficient;
(C) participates in the sexual conduct, matter, performance, or incident by use of force or the threat of force;
(D) physically or verbally resists participating in the sexual conduct, matter, performance, or incident;
(E) receives a bodily injury while participating in the sexual conduct, matter, performance, or incident; or
(F) is less than twelve (12) years of age; or

So why was KAK not charged with F4 level possession charges when his iPhone4 had CSAM of 3 to 11 year olds?

They may be dangling that charge out in front of him as leverage for info with regards to Delphi.

 

[TL4S]

In regards to the affidavit above, there's also strangeness on pg. 31. Det. DV states that multiple CSAM images of girls 12-17 were found on the Samsung Galaxy S4, which was last used in June 2015, when KAK was 21. He also says emilyanne and in parenthesis ([KAK's] step-sister) is talking about having sex with KAK and his dad at the same time. So this is fact, and KAK, even being 21 at the time, does not have charges related to any of these images. Why not?

This kind of talk of emilyanne being with KAK and TK at the same time adds weight to the "my daddy" stuff being real, imo.

 

[sunshineray]

Only if said devices are currently attached to a cell account. If they are just dead cellphones, charging them up wouldn't open access to anything. Yes? No? MOO

Sure you can just go on a wifi with it

 

[Boxer]

Only if said devices are currently attached to a cell account. If they are just dead cellphones, charging them up wouldn't open access to anything. Yes? No?

Moo Apps work with wifi, don’t need the cellular.

 

[Frankeeeh]

Might be nothing haha but just throwing it out there

 

[Boxer]

In regards to the affidavit above, there's also strangeness on pg. 31. Det. DV states that multiple CSAM images of girls 12-17 were found on the Samsung Galaxy S4, which was last used in June 2015, when KAK was 21. He also says emilyanne and in parenthesis ([KAK's] step-sister) is talking about having sex with KAK and his dad at the same time. So this is fact, and KAK, even being 21 at the time, does not have charges related to any of these images. Why not?

This kind of talk of emilyanne being with KAK and TK at the same time adds weight to the "my daddy" stuff being real, imo.

MOO TK violated his children.
They grew up terrorized and abused. He has used KAK all along the way.

 

[Schatz]

Maybe that is what I am trying to say. I know the old phones I have are disconnected from any type cell service so unable to make calls. Internet would be under Data Plans usually. Maybe time for me to dig out my old phones and experiment. IMO MOO

You can take your old device sans plan to any WiFi (your home, public library, McDonald’s, etc) and it’s a computer.

 

[Schatz]

Re: lack of CSAM activity/charges between initial counts and May 2020 - remember that at the time of arrest they only had the devices from the original search in 2017. At the beginning of the LE interview, they discuss with KAK what devices he has at his girlfriend’s and get him to agree that they can collect them. I imagine they came back for a second interview once they reviewed those, but subsequent interviews have not been leaked as this one was.

 

[Justice101]

New thread... hope there is a break in the case this week even if behind the scenes

 

[Yemelyan]

In regards to the affidavit above, there's also strangeness on pg. 31. Det. DV states that multiple CSAM images of girls 12-17 were found on the Samsung Galaxy S4, which was last used in June 2015, when KAK was 21. He also says emilyanne and in parenthesis ([KAK's] step-sister) is talking about having sex with KAK and his dad at the same time. So this is fact, and KAK, even being 21 at the time, does not have charges related to any of these images. Why not?

This kind of talk of emilyanne being with KAK and TK at the same time adds weight to the "my daddy" stuff being real, imo.

Bolded by me and Re: why not charges related to some of these other known images/conversations, I have those questions too. And then I go back to certain things that experts on internet crimes against children have said. I'd say the recent The Murder Sheet podcast with CSAM detectives and also the podcast Hunting Warhead (which is about CSAM and how LE tracks people producing/trading it) have led me to think that the investigation into possession of CSAM, or into the exploitation of children to produce it, is far more complicated than is generally known, and also that it is more complicated to bring charges on it, than is generally known.

In my mind, it should be simple - you have a person's device, the images are on there, it's an open and shut thing. But I don't think it's like this legally. I think you have to trace these threads through the investigation to prove ages of victims, identities, and access to the device, and more. I think that, potentially, someone could have thousands of images and LE could end up only being able to charge this person with a few of them, just depending on how the investigation shakes out and if LE can figure out how the images were obtained and their attribution, if you will. But I'm not a lawyer so this is my opinion only.

 

[TL4S]

Re: lack of CSAM activity/charges between initial counts and May 2020 - remember that at the time of arrest they only had the devices from the original search in 2017. At the beginning of the LE interview, they discuss with KAK what devices he has at his girlfriend’s and get him to agree that they can collect them. I imagine they came back for a second interview once they reviewed those, but subsequent interviews have not been leaked as this one was.

I can understand there only being early charges at the time of his arrest, but they've had two years to go through his more recent devices, yet no charges were added. It's just strange to me.

 

[TL4S]

Bolded by me and Re: why not charges related to some of these other known images/conversations, I have those questions too. And then I go back to certain things that experts on internet crimes against children have said. I'd say the recent The Murder Sheet podcast with CSAM detectives and also the podcast Hunting Warhead (which is about CSAM and how LE tracks people producing/trading it) have led me to think that the investigation into possession of CSAM, or into the exploitation of children to produce it, is far more complicated than is generally known, and also that it is more complicated to bring charges on it, than is generally known.

In my mind, it should be simple - you have a person's device, the images are on there, it's an open and shut thing. But I don't think it's like this legally. I think you have to trace these threads through the investigation to prove ages of victims, identities, and access to the device, and more. I think that, potentially, someone could have thousands of images and LE could end up only being able to charge this person with a few of them, just depending on how the investigation shakes out and if LE can figure out how the images were obtained and their attribution, if you will. But I'm not a lawyer so this is my opinion only.

I've noticed when there are CSAM-related arrests in the news, more often than not there are only a handful of charges. What you explain here might be why we don't usually see more charges when we can probably assume these individuals didn't just stumble upon an image or two.

In KAK's case, most his 2016 charges seem to be reflecting one ongoing exchange between emilyanne and an unknown user about Dropbox links and such. There must have been plenty of evidence for prosecution throughout that exchange.

 

[sunshineray]

I can understand there only being early charges at the time of his arrest, but they've had two years to go through his more recent devices, yet no charges were added. It's just strange to me.

I honestly think it was the FBI's doing. I think the feds considered KAK a part of the huge state wide investigation so they basically were calling the shots. The Sheriff's office must have been cooperating fully with it. Let the feds spend the major money and help me clean-up my county of this scourge. That's where I think this al went wrong with KAK at the beggining. ISP were of course involved but not privy to all the intel. That is the feel I'm getting from it, don't rock the bigger boat. We've got bigger fish to fry. KAK is smaller scum in the network, we don't think he's your killer. ISP moved on to other tips and suspects. AJMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I honestly think it was the FBI's doing. I think the feds considered KAK a part of the huge state wide investigation so they basically were calling the shots. The Sheriff's office must have been cooperating fully with it. Let the feds spend the major money and help me clean-up my county of this scourge. That's where I think this al went wrong with KAK at the beggining. ISP were of course involved but not privy to all the intel. That is the feel I'm getting from it, don't rock the bigger boat. We've got bigger fish to fry. KAK is smaller scum in the network, we don't think he's your killer. ISP moved on to other tips and suspects. AJMO

I think you are probably right.
Competing agendas and priorities. It’s sad to think that finding the killer of two young girls would take a backseat to…anything…but at some level that’s probably exactly what happened.
It doesn’t say much for the oft mentioned Delphi Multi-agency Task Force…or whatever they called it. Doesn’t sound like they were talking much to each other.
Just my thoughts.

 

[Boxer]

Only if said devices are currently attached to a cell account. If they are just dead cellphones, charging them up wouldn't open access to anything. Yes? No? MOO

Cell phones are like mini computers with a phone network added. IOW they can be used to Google and use apps independent of cellular connection just like a tablet.

 

[Boxer]

Maybe that is what I am trying to say. I know the old phones I have are disconnected from any type cell service so unable to make calls. Internet would be under Data Plans usually. Maybe time for me to dig out my old phones and experiment. IMO MOO

Connecting to WiFi does not need data. Like an iPad or computer, no phone but a “yes” to internet access. You can make voice calls over WiFi too, called VOIP calls.

MOO An iPhone 3 was like an iPod with internet connectivity and cellular connection.

 

[watcher9]

Still hanging in here, hoping there will be justice for these two girls soon.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not so 'patiently' waiting for something to break. KAK is in deep, how deep? I'm not sure, but it's not all just coincidental. I'm sure there is a lot more information that we don't know about and I sure hope that they recovered something during their recent search. I'm think flash drive, or even a hard drive thrown into the river.

I wish comfort to the families during this hard time, I cannot fathom what they've been through.

MOO

 

[IQuestion]

Not so 'patiently' waiting for something to break. KAK is in deep, how deep? I'm not sure, but it's not all just coincidental. I'm sure there is a lot more information that we don't know about and I sure hope that they recovered something during their recent search. I'm think flash drive, or even a hard drive thrown into the river.

I wish comfort to the families during this hard time, I cannot fathom what they've been through.

MOO

GIRLHASNONAME... Four stars!! You are right, none of this stuff involving KAK is coincidental or about hacked drop box/cell phone access. He is used to asking for money "upfront" before he gives you access to anything he can control...even his interviews. If I was an innocent person, I'd be giving interviews for free, just to proclaim my innocence. If guilty, I'd be directing questions to my lawyer. But not KAK, he wants to control, be in charge and make money.
(The charges against him makes my skin crawl.) A collateral investigation put KAK back on the radar in early 2019. Electronic info showed ongoing contact with LG, up and until hours before her murder. <modsnip: No MSM to substantiate this information stated as fact> He never willingly admits to anything...what was the turning point? For 2 frickin' years he has been playing everyone.

 

[MichMan015]

Yes he is up to his ears in this. If it acts like a duck and and talks like a duck and looks like a duck-it is a duck. He fills in many of the blanks but the police know this already. As mentioned there is a twist in here though and that is the other perp. A few other folks could be involved but there is one that is involved.
Going back to the beginning there were two suspects mentioned early on. Then it kind of settled down to one again. The publicity has put a lot of pressure on whoever that other person is. I am sure he is looking over his shoulder. The police have a lot of evidence and the noose is getting tighter. Just let the pressure build!!