IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #17

[HockeyMom330]

IndependentFeed: I'm sorry but I can't quote you for some reason.

I'm thinking it's possible that the car is familiar; it's not his.
I also think he and another person did abduct them.

In my mind, the timeline of the woman who said she didn't see anything out of place on the bridge, the time stamp of Abby's pic and the time of the BG just don't add up to them going off the north end of the bridge.

Can somebody estimate how long it would take BG and the girls to walk each of the theorized routes (North vs South, Cross Creek vs Not Cross Creek)? Based on the 2:30pm time stamp on the photo of BG, and the witness account of who she did or didn't see in the vicinity, it might be possible to estimate the girls location around 3:00pm, when their ride was supposed to show up.

Also wondering if the witness who claimed to see a man and couple, described the man in a similar way to BG, or if it was a completely different male--and if so, has this guy been interviewed.

 

[blueherring]

I think only someone who is close to this man or had contact with him recently could identify him from what they've released. Many men in the midwest look and talk like that.

If someone called in and said they live with this man or someone said they gave him a ride recently, wouldn't that tip be fast tracked? I just wonder if that's the kind of tip they are looking for.

If someone lives or interacted with him recently, they'd be able to positively identify him from the clothing, photo and audio recording.

Also, wouldn't LE have special software that could determine his height and weight? I assume they do, I don't know for sure. They haven't released much for the general population to go on, I'm assuming on purpose to protect the investigation.

 

[Hambone1480]

One thought I had is maybe (knowing the creek is shallow) they tried to make a run for it but eventually he caught up with them.

Wow. I hadn't thought of this, but you could really have hit the bullseye here, explaining the reason for the crossing of the creek. I could see two teens (and best friends) together making a run for it. I know when I was a kid that my best friend and myself certainly would have attempted to runaway.

 

[perfectingpink]

Same. I ventured in there for about 5 min the other night. Had a really hard time sleeping that night. Left almost immediately.


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I only do a quick peek on there, too. I am waiting for them to put Sunny the red panda's pic up against the guy and accuse her. Thank goodness April the giraffe has a solid alibi or she would be next.

 

[WebSight]

But how did he know they would go all the way down to the sound end? The bridge is terrifying imo. I would assume two children wouldn't go across. If that's the case though, he had to have known they were coming there and arrived before they did. That would rule out randomly seeing them cross the bridge over Hoosier Highway and turning around, imo he couldn't get down there and to the SW end before them. The water. The water is just the weird link right now.


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Well, it depends on whether he was waiting for them particularly (planned) or just anyone who might show up and make their way across (opportunity).

So, hey, what do you know, square one...:gaahon't mean to be plippant but this is frustrating - imagine how LE feels and they have much more info!

 

[IndependentFeed]

Can somebody estimate how long it would take BG and the girls to walk each of the theorized routes (North vs South, Cross Creek vs Not Cross Creek)? Based on the 2:30pm time stamp on the photo of BG, and the witness account of who she did or didn't see in the vicinity, it might be possible to estimate the girls location around 3:00pm, when their ride was supposed to show up.

Also wondering if the witness who claimed to see a man and couple, described the man in a similar way to BG, or if it was a completely different male--and if so, has this guy been interviewed.

If you goto maps.google.com and right click you can measure distance. Measure the distance of the path you want then divide that by feet-per-second that you assume the walking distance would be.

 

[thekarmabus]

It does seem like he had been there before. Bringing his "kill kit" with him and finding two girls in that space on that day... then knowing where to kill them, place them . I believe this was premeditated and he catfished one of them and ask to meet her. He knew the location, planned the moments. I wonder if it was to be a solo meeting and last minute one said to the other I want you to come along. He had it well planned. I think it was a social media crime of sorts


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[luckyme]

I really think they dont know who he is!!!! my opinion only!

 

[Hatfield]

I'm sure someone has already answered but all forms of social security benefits (for both disabled and retirees) are paid out on the 3rd of the month (so nope not the end of the month at all there) or if the 3rd falls on a weekend or holiday then whatever the last weekday before that is (so, as someone on social security disability, I've been paid on the first if the third was a Sunday or even sooner sometimes with Christmas and such). So no relation there.

Don't know about other benefits outside of disability and social security but assuming it's similar. 13th is a weird time to pay someone who, like those on disability or other government benefits, only get paid once a month.

That said, 13 is an interesting number. Some people find it very unlucky of course (there are buildings built without 13th floors. A hospital in my area doesn't have one!) but other folks love the number and even consider it lucky (if I'm not mistaken Taylor Swift is fond of the number, so just a random example). Maybe, if this was the same killer (so both happened on the 13th then? That's an interesting catch there) this is just a number they like? I don't really think it's pay related since most people get paid on Friday's and government benefits (in my state this is true also for food stamps, as well, and some other related financial benefits as far as I'm aware, but would be interesting to know what's that like in Indiana because some benefits are state based not national like disability or social security) are tied to a date not day of the week but seems to be beginning of the month. So barring some Indiana (or Iowa? That's where the other case happened, right?) I just don't think it's financially related.

Besides, these types of heinous folk have no qualms about killing innocent young women/ children so let's assume if they really needed or wanted to, they'd just steal any necessary supplies. They aren't operating under normal human morals or laws here so I somehow also don't think this type would be waiting for the money to go out and commit their double homicide!


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Thanks. That helps a lot and answers a lot of the questions I had.

 

[perfectingpink]

One thought I had is maybe (knowing the creek is shallow) they tried to make a run for it but eventually he caught up with them.

I had wondered about this, too. The one thing I question about them going through the water is wouldn't LE have pointed out something about the guy having wet clothing? Or maybe this is where the duffle bag comes in with a change of clothing.

 

[Falling Down]

You very well could be right, but I personally will disagree with you on this. I totally think it all took place right there on the South end as he knew nobody was coming directly behind him and he wanted to get them down off the trail quickly so that nobody coming the other way would run into them. If you are him, why wait and follow without knowing how many people are going to come across the bridge from the north side, serving as potential witnesses to your crime? You also take the chance of waiting, following, getting to the other side, and then coming across more people on that side of the trail when you make your move.
I honestly think he saw his opportunity on the south side and took it. You are gambling when you are gonna commit a crime like this, and you are gonna go immediately when you see the coast is clear. You aren't going to risk anymore people stumbling across him and the girls by waiting any longer.
God Bless these two sweet children and may they look over their grieving family and friends, providing them comfort in the tough days ahead. Rest in Peace ANGELS Abby and Libby.

I agree, and come to think of it wonder if BG had just jerked his head/torso around, when the images were taken, and was about to reach for a weapon. I keep running this scenario, the girls see him, Libby starts recording. Guy keeps looking around to make sure nobody else is on the trail, on the NW shoreline, etc. Once he determines nobody else is there, his meticulously planned crime is put in motion.

He's Dennis Rader, but without the city job.

 

[AuctionGal]

Agreed.......there's no telling how many times he went to that park and came up empty handed before the perfect situation arose. People from out of State wouldn't be able to stalk and prowl like that. The only reason people are starting to lean towards the out-of-state angle is because nobody local has been fingered yet. Personally, I think he lives right there in that community, or within 20-30 miles of it. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if LE hasn't already talked to him or had a phone tip called in about him. For whatever reason.......no alarms went off.


I was arguing about this case with my old lady the other night------>View attachment 111582 click ............and even though she won, I got to thinking,

who would be available and off work at the same time the kids were out of school, so if this person was off work that day, it wouldn't be odd in the least ?

Answer: A teacher, school district employee, bus drivers


Side note: I'll keep practicing-------->View attachment 111583click

I agree, it could also be someone who works a different shift. A factory worker, retail clerk, security guard, hospital employee, etc.

 

[luckyme]

I think the billboards explain everything! moo

 

[WestieMom]

[FONT=&amp]Has it been mentioned at all WHERE the girls were suppose to be picked up at?[/FONT]

Not that I've seen. I'd also like to have the info on who was to pick them up and when, alas we don't...

 

[Aunt B]

I've spent the last several days catching up on these threads. I can't remember the last time I posted to WS...Lyric and Elizabeth's case, maybe?

I know it probably doesn't accomplish anything, but for what it's worth, I just wanted to post my thoughts and impressions based on the evidence so far in Liberty and Abigail's case. All MOO, of course.

The photo of BG:

1) I absolutely do not think this is a homeless individual, as some have suggested. How would he ever get away without being detected? He'd be likely wearing the same clothes as in the pics, and would have been seen in them afterward...filthy, wet, possibly with blood on them. Or, he could have changed clothes...but then the clothes probably would have been found somewhere by now. Finally, he just doesn't seem disheveled enough to me to be homeless...clean-ish clothes, his facial hair does not seem unkempt or overgrown, nor does the hair on his head, etc. (I'm in the camp that sees a cap on his head, but he doesn't appear to have long, overgrown hair coming out from under it).

2) His jeans look a great deal like the ones my husband buys for work...Wranglers, I think? We buy them from Wal-Mart. Probably a common jean for men in their 30's, 40's, and 50's who don't buy expensive clothes for work, or who don't have a lot of money, especially in smaller towns where Wal-Mart is one of the only places to shop. I see from a quick search that Wal-Mart has a store 22 minutes from Delphi, in Monticello.

3) At first I thought he had a goatee-thing going on. But on closer inspection, I'm wondering actually if that's not a mustache only? Kind of long on the sides?

4)I am very convinced that BG is at least 40 years old, and I'm leaning closer to 50. I'm not sure I can articulate exactly what it is about his body, posture, voice, etc. which leave me thinking he's in that age range. I think because my perception of the image, at least in part, subtly reminds me of a couple of men I know. And they are both in their 40's and 50's.

General stuff:

1) As others have expressed here, I am also convinced that BG knew the girls would be there. Whether he had pretended to be someone else and communicated with one of them online, or if he was stalking the SM of either one, etc. I 100% believe this was a crime he planned out all the way, down to the last detail. Unless he's the most skilled perp of this kind who ever existed, I just don't see how he could subdue two teenage girls so efficiently, finish the crimes, and get away...if he hadn't planned it out carefully. In the beginning, I wondered if it wasn't someone well known to one or both of them..but considering LE probably has heard interaction between BG and the girls from the recording on the cell phone...if it had been someone they knew, his name likely would have been used at some point.

2) I also wondered immediately if this case was connected to L & L's case. Only 6 hours away? So similar? So efficient? Sure doesn't seem like someone who has never done it before.

3) I'm on the fence about whether there was more than one perpetrator. But logic tells me it would be even MORE difficult for two or more criminals to be that efficient and avoid detection. Certainly not impossible, though.

I hope very much that there are VERY solid investigators working on this. These monsters get away far too often. I pray they catch whoever did this before they have the opportunity to do it again. My heart is absolutely broken for the girls' families and everyone who knew and loved them. What a horrible, horrible loss to have to endure. And I can't even think about what these poor babies must have gone through. My heart and mind just can't even go there. :'(

 

[Deleted member 278]

I'm sure someone has already answered but all forms of social security benefits (for both disabled and retirees) are paid out on the 3rd of the month (so nope not the end of the month at all there) or if the 3rd falls on a weekend or holiday then whatever the last weekday before that is (so, as someone on social security disability, I've been paid on the first if the third was a Sunday or even sooner sometimes with Christmas and such). So no relation there.

Don't know about other benefits outside of disability and social security but assuming it's similar. 13th is a weird time to pay someone who, like those on disability or other government benefits, only get paid once a month.

That said, 13 is an interesting number. Some people find it very unlucky of course (there are buildings built without 13th floors. A hospital in my area doesn't have one!) but other folks love the number and even consider it lucky (if I'm not mistaken Taylor Swift is fond of the number, so just a random example). Maybe, if this was the same killer (so both happened on the 13th then? That's an interesting catch there) this is just a number they like? I don't really think it's pay related since most people get paid on Friday's and government benefits (in my state this is true also for food stamps, as well, and some other related financial benefits as far as I'm aware, but would be interesting to know what's that like in Indiana because some benefits are state based not national like disability or social security) are tied to a date not day of the week but seems to be beginning of the month. So barring some Indiana (or Iowa? That's where the other case happened, right?) I just don't think it's financially related.

Besides, these types of heinous folk have no qualms about killing innocent young women/ children so let's assume if they really needed or wanted to, they'd just steal any necessary supplies. They aren't operating under normal human morals or laws here so I somehow also don't think this type would be waiting for the money to go out and commit their double homicide!


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My SS does not come on the third of the month. It comes the third week.

 

[luckyme]

My opinion! They were brutally murdered. I think the killer left a calling. LE knows hes done this before. Hence the billboards so fast! moo

 

[Hatfield]

NiN posted official data of the creek depth the day they went missing and I believe it was around 3 feet and a few inches, which IMO would be tricky to run in.. that's waist high or so on someone 5'3" (I believe they were around that - my - height, RIP).

This is just a guess but I think that would be average depth because from fishing in many rivers and creeks the water level varies quite a bit depending on if it is narrow point or wider width.

So IMO I dont put a lot of weight into the posted depth of the river. I am sure it is an accurate average depth but I dont think it can tell us actual depth in certain spots on the creek.

JMO of course.

 

[Wondergirl]

Diane and Eric, the grandparents of Abby Williams, left an emotional note at the headquarters of the Delphi investigation Tuesday.


http://fox59.com/2017/03/01/grandpa...-leave-emotional-note-at-police-headquarters/

 

[Aropizt]

CB's aren't very popular anymore. Delphi is to small to have a taxi service. There may be Uber.

HIGHLY doubt Delphi has Uber. I live in a fairly large city in MI that even has a university in it and Uber doesn't service this area. Lyft JUST announced last week they were starting to cover the area. I don't see a small town like Delphi having Uber and while I'm not certain my best guess is Lafayette nearby (unsure if it's even near enough though for Uber coverage to reach Delphi anyway if Lafayette has Uber) is no bigger than the area I'm in, if not smaller so... I'm going to guess no on Uber and such. But you never know. I was staying with a friend who lived in the middle of nowhere NJ. Couldn't get Uber but managed to get a 4am Lyft to take me to the airport so eh... but I assume the Northeast in general has far better coverage than here in the Midwest.


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