IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[IllinoisMissing]

I live in a small town in Indiana. 1 police officer. He would recognize a local and probably quite a few others who frequent our town. He might not know their name, but he would definitely know their face. I have always thought it was a local all this time, but started thinking tonight that maybe I'm not so sure now. Even if you have never been in trouble with the law, LE, in small towns, try to make themselves familiar with everyone. That makes their job so much easier. My BIL is in LE and he worked in Indianapolis and he tried to familiarize himself with everyone in his district/area.

I agree. I would've thought LE in Delphi would recognize him. I still think he doesn't usually dress like that. Perhaps he never or rarely wears jeans and bought that jacket only to carry out his plan.

If not currently local I believe he was local at one time, or visited family there frequently...perhaps a child of a divorced couple, with the custodial parent not local but he came to visit...maybe even summers.

After we drove around for 45 minutes looking for the trail and bridge, using GPS, I just don't see someone finding this place by accident, prepared to murder.

JMO

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[ninij9]

a violent offendor arrested today in Bloomington, IN for harassing a young mother and child in a park:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...loomington-for-impersonating-a-police-officer

Scary. Thank goodness this woman was alert and went to police.

BTW, what a poorly written article don't you think? Had to read it twice to realise the offender was in a car. Journalism is really in the pooper nowadays.

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[kellala]

The families have already stated that the girls loved to hike here. There is proof out there that at least one of the girls was into the innocent pursuit of Geocaching, and IMO, Abby is wearing a sweatshirt jacket, tee shirt, jeans and sneakers with her hair pulled up into a loose bun and NO makeup. VERY age appropriate for a walk and totally wrong for a meet up. Catfish or otherwise.

These girls were so age appropriate. They played sports they didn't post suggestive duck lips pix on SM, they didn't post wannabe gangsta crap. So many 12 and 13 year olds that us WSers have to research here on a regular basis sadly look ten years older than they are on their SM and then it makes more sense what happened.

I don't mean to be hard on your theory, as far as I am concerned ANY ONE OF US COULD BE RIGHT, but I think if this was a meet up, LE would be letting that out, I think they would have this due to an electronic trail too.

I just feel so sick and awful that these two girls, that were so NOT into all of the nasty stuff I see some of these kids into, who were so active in sports and community, who loved each other SO MUCH that one didn't run when the other was grabbed (the grandfather theorized this, so JMO), I don't wish to think that they were being sneaky and meeting up with someone they met online. I want to elevate them just a bit above that. I want to give them that credit.

I'm so sorry to hijack your response to another poster. I should have pulled your original post and responded there.

I mean no disrespect for your ideas. I'm heartsick. I haven't had a case hurt me this bad in a while and I'm having a rough go with it all.


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Totally agree. Those who says the girl is dolled up probably don't know how teens wear those days. Their clothes are clean, down to earth to me.


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[ninij9]

My first post so go easy on me��. I don't see the resemblance to a scream mask but what I have noticed is what appears to be the outline of a handgun in BG's right jacket pocket. This may have already been discussed but if you're not aware I encourage you to take a close look and let us know if you see it.

I don't see it, but many very respected WSers here that are avid gun owners have made many a post here saying exactly what you are saying. So you are in great company.[emoji4]

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[ab01]

I can: he doesn't live locally, which makes him less subject to scrutiny and without a need to hide. Whether or not he grew up locally, I strongly suspect he does not live in the area now.

(I don't disagree with you that he may be less visible if the social structure of his life is conventional; simply that geography may play a role.)

I mean to add to that it's highly possible this suspect had never been there. I for one don't think it's a stretch to picture somebody googling secluded public hiking trails and studying them on a map. Now after saying this I still tend to believe that he is atleast semi local, just my gut nothing more. But in reality I wouldn't be suprised to find that it's either one. There is just so little we know, I mean the video and audio is supose to be the bombshell in this case, but personally I think both are so generic that very little can be discerned from either one.....Moo


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[ocgrad]

Checking in. I see nothing has changed in the case. Wish they could release a little of "something" that may help. Sigh

I see people commenting on the way the girls were dressed that day and whether or not they were "dressed up" or dressed "appropriately" for hiking. Let me just say, between the ages of 14 and 16 I wore heels (originally the small 2 inch ones then eventually 4 inch ones) EVERY DAY of my life during those years. This includes in the rain, sleet, snow, etc. In fact, it's still an on going joke with me and all my friends about how it could be 6 inches of snow and I'd be in my heels. Back then we used to "hang" on "the corner" too which meant I'd be outside like that for hours on end cold, heat, didn't matter. I had my heels on. Hell, I could even run in them! We'd walk miles around the neighborhood, to the mall, down by the river, through parks, on playground equipment, etc......But I had my heels on. Anyway, just saying, if something had happened to me back in the day and I was found dead in the woods with my heels on, for example, all my family and friends would know that that was not an odd thing for me to be dressed like that in that kind of environment. Hell, I could have ended up there due to hiking, taking a short cut, meeting friends, going on a hot date,....who knows! There would be no way to tell what I was doing there because the clothing and me actually being in that type of environment would have been very normal for me. Heels were just my thing. Something I loved to wear.

We just don't know what's normal and not for any given person. Or what they found comfy, etc. I mean, we all have at least one friend who refuses to even go to the mailbox without makeup. Then there are those of us who only wear it on special occasion. Everyone and their comfort levels are different. What may be "normal" to one person may be odd for someone else. You just never know. IMO

I agree. The messy bun is the thing for girls right now. She's just being on trend. Which at 13 is important 24/7 no matter where you go. My niece is 14 and it's the only way I ever see her hair no matter what occasion. That's not to say they weren't catfished, or maybe just hoped to run into friends or a cute boy.

 

[The Farm]

We go back to the Caylee case, and your siggy still cracks me up LOL.

I remember you both from the Caylee case also.
As horrible as that case was including the outcome we still managed to have some good laughs to break the tension of it all.
We also toasted with quite a few shots of tequila with wonderful breakfast every morning. And then the verdict came in and many of us were never quite the same after.
As far as this case goes I am at a standstill until more is revealed.

 

[ninij9]

If BG was someone's husband, boyfriend, brother or son I tend to believe there is a greater chance they would provide a false alibi. Even if they aren't afraid of him, they might do it because don't believe he did it and they 'just want the whole thing to go away'. How many times has a girlfriend or wife provided a false alibi when there was only one or two suspects and it may have taken over a decade before LE finally got the suspect. Here, I believe I read where LE has interviewed 300 men. I can't believe, even with the additional resources, that LE can spend enough time to try to break each alibi.

I believe we are going to need something else and right now I have no idea what that something else could possibly be.

I think the "something else" at this point needs to be more video or audio released. I have been too long against doing this, but I'm so afraid this guy is going to act again, either because he's escalating, cocky, or maybe the LE is getting close and he feels he's got nothing to lose.

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[ninij9]

BBM. I'm not sure how to not be upset at this statement. Dolled up? She was dressed in jeans, sneakers, and a sweater with her hair pulled up. How in the world is that "dolled up"? She was a teenager for crying out loud, and dressed like a typical, normal teenager.

Ty, ty, ty.

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[ninij9]

Totally agree, Abby is dressed exactly how my teenage daughter would dress, I thought we were a victim friendly forum!

I posted a giant blowhard post 15 minutes ago and you said it all in one sentence! Thank you.

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[Jennifer.k]

I do not believe these girls were there to meet anyone that day.
https://youtu.be/WsbYHI-rZOE
This video is about a girl who met a online predator who killed her. I don't know if this has ever been discussed on here before as I Joined when abby and libby were found.
It takes time for these creeps to gain kids trust and LE would have found evidence of this and I think they would have told us if that was the case. Jmo

 

[heaterann]

I posted a giant blowhard post 15 minutes ago and you said it all in one sentence! Thank you.

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I think being "victim friendly" and "victim blind" are two very different things. I have not seen anyone bashing the girls or their dress but simply looking at the rest of the pictures we have of them and trying to determine if they look more dressed up, to perhaps give validation or put to rest the idea of a meet up of some sort... JMO

 

[pandorasbox]

Totally agree. Those who says the girl is dolled up probably don't know how teens wear those days. Their clothes are clean, down to earth to me.


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Exactly... and around that age, it happens in the flash of an eye, females will look like a goofy adolescent girl one month and like a young woman the next. Styles and hair and makeup can go through many phases, especially around 11-15 when a girl is finding herself and developing their personality as an individual.

:crying:

 

[ninij9]

MOO I refuse to believe that the girls are responsible for the outcome of that day. I believe they were doing what they enjoyed together as good friends totally guileless. JMO No links

I think, however, they may be responsible for ensuring they were found and for getting video of the perp. Quite possibly they were able to mitigate some horror; I choose to believe that. IMO JMO MOO

Turn him in.

I could kiss you for this post [emoji8] .

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[Mattquakenbush]

I don't see it, but many very respected WSers here that are avid gun owners have made many a post here saying exactly what you are saying. So you are in great company.[emoji4]

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I can see it to a T. Looks to me like his hand is partially out of his pocket holding on to the gun while most of the gun is in his pocket.

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[ninij9]

One thing that still bothers me is a statement that Sgt. Kim Riley said on Feb. 15th.

“Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what’s going on in their lives. That’s the most important thing I can say at this point in time.”

http://kfor.com/2017/02/15/2-bodies-discovered-during-search-for-missing-teens/


Added: I don't think the girls were overdressed.

I really thought he said that because we have a child killer on the loose. It was an unfortunate choice of words IMO, because it had cast the girls in a light of perhaps sneaking around. It is only one of many poorly phrased comments by LE in this case IMO.

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[Rosewater20]

I agree. The messy bun is the thing for girls right now. She's just being on trend. Which at 13 is important 24/7 no matter where you go. My niece is 14 and it's the only way I ever see her hair no matter what occasion. That's not to say they weren't catfished, or maybe just hoped to run into friends or a cute boy.

Girls and ladies have been wearing this hairstyle for years. I wear it like that as it is just easy to pull up like that and not worry about styling. I would agree it is not dressing up or 'dolling up' as one insensitive post suggested.

 

[Burnt Toast]

<modsnip>

Well bob, She's not in a tshirt and sweats, just saying. And don't get me wrong I'm not critical of how she's dressed. What got me thinking is that she looks so different from the other photos circulating. Since LE is determined to save any critical updates until they absolutely need public assistance, I gotta work backwards. Starting with : Why were the girls there ? Why was BG there? Do you believe in coincidences ? Fine if you do, I just am not a believer that this vulnerable twosome was out there at the very far end of the trail to go hike on a day off. Again, which teens do you ever see do that at that age? Usually if you see teens out in the country they are partying and that's the 15-20 age group.


Other ?'s may include Why did he take them to a perfect spot to abduct and possibly transport them ? This was meticulously planned out IMO
Thanks for all the thoughtful posts here

As the property owner where the bodies were found, one would assume that RL was thoroughly checked out right away, as soon as the bodies were found, and if there had been such a huge probation violation that necessitated incarceration, then why not have taken him in right away? OTOH, if some 4 weeks later, something comes to light during the investigation, something LE is not certain about, and they need time, and/or they want to work on questioning, and/or they have a hunch and want to make sure the area is safe... what a great way to have someone where they know where he is and what he's doing, than to drag him in because it's within their rights to do so for other reasons unrelated? That is kind of similar to what they did with Douglas Garland in the Liknes/O'Brien case here in Canada. They suspected him, but they needed some time to search his property, question him incessantly, etc., and they brought him in and held him on other minor things they found wrong, which gave them some time. Could it be something like that? Although this fellow doesn't look like the same body type to me at all, he's lived there for 50 years, presumably with no violence charges against him, and why would he agree to a news interview.. so doesn't make sense. Stumped!

I don't think RL has ever had his property searched since this all began.

 

[Bus_face]

BBM
Contrary to your speculation, here is what is actually said by those who knew the girls;

<snip>
"Liberty and Abigail were familiar with the community trails, which were popular with locals.

“She went hiking often,” Mike Patty, Liberty’s grandfather, previously told PEOPLE of his granddaughter, who he raised alongside his wife, Becky."

<snip>
"When they weren’t in class together at the local middle school, Abigail and Liberty were playing sports or hiking Delphi’s community trails, Patty said."

http://people.com/crime/abigail-williams-liberty-german-slain-indiana-teens-5-things/

I think being "victim friendly" and "victim blind" are two very different things. I have not seen anyone bashing the girls or their dress but simply looking at the rest of the pictures we have of them and trying to determine if they look more dressed up, to perhaps give validation or put to rest the idea of a meet up of some sort... JMO

Exactly. Thank you. I disagree w how the moms here extrapolate their own relatives and especially their own teen experiences from30 years ago and try to apply them directly to this case. Great you wore heels 24/7 and snuck out and fooled your parents woo hoo.

Im just trying to work backwards. Why were they there why was BG there

Thanks for everyone's thoughtful posts.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I have to agree with others though, that she does look rather dolled up for a hike in the woods, and even when we consider her attire in comparison to LG's attire that day. Could it have been a planned meetup for AW, with LG along for the ride... I heard in the beginning that AW did not have a cellphone, but then later it has been said that both girls did. Does anyone know which is correct? If AW did not have her own cellphone, and she was a more private person on SM, it may be more difficult for police to get a handle on her activities and communications, and it could explain LG taking video.. perhaps LG was a little more streetsmart and feeling somewhat hesitant about AW's plans?

Abby had jeans, a t-shirt, tennis shoes, and a hoodie on. I just don't see that as "dolled" up. What she is wearing is totally age appropriate, even for a hike on a trail.