IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #30

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I'd like to see LE release an approx. height for BG but until they do has anyone seen a decent guesstimate?

I saw a retired LE guess 5'10" to 6' but he didn't appear to have studied the pic; it was just off the top of his head, imho.

I'm thinking the low end of that range. He just doesn't look that tall or large to me. Lot of the girth seems to be caused by the stuff inside his jacket, imo. My best guess is 5'10" 180-190 lbs.
 
I believe our next biggest clue will be LE releasing cause of deaths. They've understandably withheld this information for a significant amount of time, and I think that's because it's extremely telling in every case -- but particularly this one.

What I'm looking for there is the method, as it tells us a lot about the killer(s). But more importantly, I'm looking for whether both girls were killed in the same exact way. If not, I'd consider that a significant twist in the investigation, and one that could support a 2+ killer theory.

For example, if both girls were strangled in the same fashion and e.g., half an hour apart, perhaps a single (serial) killer committed the crimes and this is his modus operandi. The preparation and consistency would lead investigators to believe this was a serial killer as they often develop these kinds of routines and patterns. Autopsy reports would be able to confirm whether the bruise marks (e.g., size of hand, amount of pressure) were consistent or not, which would provide clues about a single vs. multiple killers.

On the other hand if COD is even slightly different -- for example a stabbing vs. slashed throat -- it could be that multiple killers were involved. It could also be the case that something went wrong, forcing the killer(s) to deviate from a "routine." If the COD are different, this also may provide a clue about whether one of the victims was the intended target, while the other was just an obstacle. An example of this would be if Victim A was executed by gunshot (quickly, early on) while the Victim B was strangled later (more "intimate"). Investigators would likely suspect that Victim B had been specifically targeted.

This targeting vs. random information is extremely valuable because it cuts the suspect pool and relevant evidence pool *drastically*. If detectives are able to make a determination that Victim B was specifically targeted, not Victim A, the suspect pool has been effectively narrowed to individuals within Victim B's network (friends, people who visited social media, those who live near them, etc.). Making any connection between the killer and victim is basically a prerequisite to solving the crime.

It's important to keep in mind why LE cannot release this information without possibly compromising the case. Consider a hypothetical scenario in which BG is found and interrogated. He matches the photo, voice, and perfectly describes the death of one victim, but gives a wildly inaccurate description of the second victim's murder, claiming to have done both. If these details had never been made public, LE can make the determination that multiple killers are involved, and one or more remain on the loose.

What purpose would releasing the COD have in helping the public identify the supect.
 
I think I’m onto something big here and it’s taken some time to develop so here me out.

I have a theory that’s tied to the past. There’s a serial killer (It’s unclear to me if he’s been convicted of killing or just abducting several or only one woman at this point), but was convicted and sent to jail in 1995 - Larry Dewayne Hall. He was from Wabash, IN. He is doing life for an abduction. It is assumed he committed a lot of murders. An LE insider believes he had an accomplice (below). I think the accomplice did this crime.

This is a guy who traveled from Wabash, Indiana all the way to Nevada to kill young women the police believe. He (and his brother) both did Civil War reenactments across the country together. It’s been speculated by several investigative writers, expert investigators, witnesses and police officers that Hall had an accomplice in some of the crimes he committed. More specifically there was a police officer at one time (a female officer whose father was a former detective investigating Hall in Wabash, IN). The female officer was interviewed for a book I believe in 2009 and she with her father believed there was an accomplice because the brothers traveled together for one specific event in a specific year a murder happened placing them both at the crime’s specific location stated in the book and interview link below. I believe this to be true as well based on what I’ve read. I’ve read quite a bit. Hall was born and raised in Wabash, IN. It’s not too far from Delphi, IN. Anyway Hall has a twin brother and at one point Gary, his twin tried to give his brother an alibi for the Jessica Roach abduction, which didn’t work - I’m surprised the brother wasn’t arrested at this point, although maybe he was brought in for further questioning, who knows. Regardless their father was a Sexton and they worked in a *cemetery as youths, were abused, bed wetters, alcoholic father, classic serial murder stuff. Larry’s suspected body dump sites were in wooded areas, parks, rivers, etc. The crazy part is Larry Hall has never been convicted of murder, only abduction I believe at this point on a federal charge, although that could have changed recently. All the above is specific to Larry Hall outside of paraphrasing regarding the brother with regard to trips taken as noted in the links below and what the police officer believed. You have to watch the documentary and read the excerpt below from an Unsolved Mystery forum. It’s chilling to say the least. Read the comment first and then watch some of the documentary and you will see where I’m going. I’ve only scratched the surface and think there is much more to read, watch and *hear.

Gary has many times stated he thought his brother killed all the women and that there could be as many as 30 women and very adamant that it was his brother all along. Detectives have approached Gary to try to get him to convince his brother (Larry) to confess who has, but then Larry recanted his confessions each time eluding a conviction. I wonder why he recants? Is it because he had someone else with him and thinks it’s unfair he gets all the credit? IDK, seems really odd to me considering all the stuff he’s said over the years regardless. The good part is that he is still in jail - the bad part is that there is no clue to where a lot of these women are, or if there’s an accomplice running around with a home or residence in Wabash, IN or possibly another Civil War buddy. The information regarding all these women going missing in Indiana, Michigan, Illinois and across the US is slowly getting tracked back to Hall and his Civil War reenactment sites. What if there was an accomplice and they’re still out there or just now decided to become active again, but without Larry and by themselves? At one point I read about a murder involving three women who were all abducted together. I can’t imagine one man did that by himself, thus requiring the help of an accomplice possibly which is also being blamed on no other than Larry Hall himself of course. I find that odd.

The following links will help you on your journey.

Here’s the story about Jimmy Keene who went into prison for trafficking drugs. He was asked to go undercover and befriend Larry Hall in finding out where the bodies of several women ended up. He does, but ends up blowing his cover on purpose telling the serial killer that he thinks he’s a disgusting person, etc. I think in one of these books, one of these interviews we can find out who the accomplice is. Maybe there are dates, events (Civil War), etc., that link other murders to someone else still on the outside? Maybe the one you and I are both thinking of at this point? Maybe take the “Down the Hill” audio and compare it to the other person in this Documentary? I’m trying to not be too specific here. Take care.

CNN Documentary
https://youtu.be/mQjYonis8FE

Some good background on other stuff in the case. You will notice some interesting things as you read. This is a comment regarding a book interview, someone who talked to the female LE person, brother, Larry, etc.

Look at Comments after main part of story by “Sharon Hauf 3/10/15” - It’s the first set of comments in the story, not the second set.

http://unsolved.com/archives/angela-hammond

very interesting. I have family very close to Wabash. I had not heard of this.
 
I think I’m onto something big here and it’s taken some time to develop so here me out.

I have a theory that’s tied to the past. There’s a serial killer (It’s unclear to me if he’s been convicted of killing or just abducting several or only one woman at this point), but was convicted and sent to jail in 1995 - Larry Dewayne Hall. He was from Wabash, IN. He is doing life for an abduction. It is assumed he committed a lot of murders. An LE insider believes he had an accomplice (below). I think the accomplice did this crime.

This is a guy who traveled from Wabash, Indiana all the way to Nevada to kill young women the police believe. He (and his brother) both did Civil War reenactments across the country together. It’s been speculated by several investigative writers, expert investigators, witnesses and police officers that Hall had an accomplice in some of the crimes he committed. More specifically there was a police officer at one time (a female officer whose father was a former detective investigating Hall in Wabash, IN). The female officer was interviewed for a book I believe in 2009 and she with her father believed there was an accomplice because the brothers traveled together for one specific event in a specific year a murder happened placing them both at the crime’s specific location stated in the book and interview link below. I believe this to be true as well based on what I’ve read. I’ve read quite a bit. Hall was born and raised in Wabash, IN. It’s not too far from Delphi, IN. Anyway Hall has a twin brother and at one point Gary, his twin tried to give his brother an alibi for the Jessica Roach abduction, which didn’t work - I’m surprised the brother wasn’t arrested at this point, although maybe he was brought in for further questioning, who knows. Regardless their father was a Sexton and they worked in a *cemetery as youths, were abused, bed wetters, alcoholic father, classic serial murder stuff. Larry’s suspected body dump sites were in wooded areas, parks, rivers, etc. The crazy part is Larry Hall has never been convicted of murder, only abduction I believe at this point on a federal charge, although that could have changed recently. All the above is specific to Larry Hall outside of paraphrasing regarding the brother with regard to trips taken as noted in the links below and what the police officer believed. You have to watch the documentary and read the excerpt below from an Unsolved Mystery forum. It’s chilling to say the least. Read the comment first and then watch some of the documentary and you will see where I’m going. I’ve only scratched the surface and think there is much more to read, watch and *hear.

Gary has many times stated he thought his brother killed all the women and that there could be as many as 30 women and very adamant that it was his brother all along. Detectives have approached Gary to try to get him to convince his brother (Larry) to confess who has, but then Larry recanted his confessions each time eluding a conviction. I wonder why he recants? Is it because he had someone else with him and thinks it’s unfair he gets all the credit? IDK, seems really odd to me considering all the stuff he’s said over the years regardless. The good part is that he is still in jail - the bad part is that there is no clue to where a lot of these women are, or if there’s an accomplice running around with a home or residence in Wabash, IN or possibly another Civil War buddy. The information regarding all these women going missing in Indiana, Michigan, Illinois and across the US is slowly getting tracked back to Hall and his Civil War reenactment sites. What if there was an accomplice and they’re still out there or just now decided to become active again, but without Larry and by themselves? At one point I read about a murder involving three women who were all abducted together. I can’t imagine one man did that by himself, thus requiring the help of an accomplice possibly which is also being blamed on no other than Larry Hall himself of course. I find that odd.

The following links will help you on your journey.

Here’s the story about Jimmy Keene who went into prison for trafficking drugs. He was asked to go undercover and befriend Larry Hall in finding out where the bodies of several women ended up. He does, but ends up blowing his cover on purpose telling the serial killer that he thinks he’s a disgusting person, etc. I think in one of these books, one of these interviews we can find out who the accomplice is. Maybe there are dates, events (Civil War), etc., that link other murders to someone else still on the outside? Maybe the one you and I are both thinking of at this point? Maybe take the “Down the Hill” audio and compare it to the other person in this Documentary? I’m trying to not be too specific here. Take care.

CNN Documentary
https://youtu.be/mQjYonis8FE

Some good background on other stuff in the case. You will notice some interesting things as you read. This is a comment regarding a book interview, someone who talked to the female LE person, brother, Larry, etc.

Look at Comments after main part of story by “Sharon Hauf 3/10/15” - It’s the first set of comments in the story, not the second set.

http://unsolved.com/archives/angela-hammond

Here: http://m.chronicle-tribune.com/arch...912-fb50-5896-8581-1409baadaede.html?mode=jqm
 
I'd like to see LE release an approx. height for BG but until they do has anyone seen a decent guesstimate?

I saw a retired LE guess 5'10" to 6' but he didn't appear to have studied the pic; it was just off the top of his head, imho.

I'm thinking the low range of that. He just doesn't look that tall or large to me. Lot of the girth seems to be caused by the stuff inside his jacket, imo. My best guess if 5'10" 180-190 lbs.

I would gauge him to be a little shorter, perhaps 5"7'-5"9'. 180-190 lbs seems about right. He resembles a man I know well, who is 5'6" and stocky in his chest.
 
It's just that from the beginning I've "seen" a younger guy, maybe 25. Then when someone did the side-by-side with the PO I thought he could be even younger.

Maybe we should consider someone closer to the girl's age who knew they were there that day. He sure looked comfortable walking on that "bridge" like Someone who comes there a lot.

And remember police were looking for someone w/o a vehicle, a hitchhiker.

And the girls would probably have been a little more comfortable if it was a younger person, although they were young enough that they probably would have considered anyone over 20 to be "old"...but I do think someone much older wouldn't have been nearly as comfortable walking at ease on that bridge...I'm 30 and I think I'm too old to easily navigate it! I just wish that there was a way to enhance the photo more. They need to find this guy and get him off the streets.
 
I'd say just reply to this post instead of my giant one and we can call it accomplice maybe? But story link above is here as well so we don't clog up the thread with my wall of text: To summarize it's a theory of an accomplice to Larry Hall's doings still in and around Wabash area possibly. LE close to case was a believer in the theory.

http://m.chronicle-tribune.com/arch...912-fb50-5896-8581-1409baadaede.html?mode=jqm
 
I haven't commented in a while considering there is not much new. I do however pop in everyday and go to the very last page to see if there has been new developments. I pray they catch him soon these girls deserve justice and he needs to be caught before he does it again.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
What purpose would releasing the COD have in helping the public identify the supect.

I assume you're being rhetorical, and I agree. I don't really believe it would help the public identify the suspect much better which is why LE hasn't done it yet -- too much at stake.

Out of options, however, the LE may resort to it because it can help if out of options. For example if the COD is a gunshot wound from a particular gun, someone in the public may have been gifted a gun recently and thought nothing of it. Or, if the COD was strangulation by pantyhose (random disgusting example), a local prostitute may have information regarding a client with a very specific request.

Very minor details can make or break a case, and COD is not a minor detail at all. JMO.

They'll rightfully keep it close to the chest until they have no other option but to release it.
 
Have they released any more information about the BG? For example, have they said anything like, "Based on the picture, we can assume he is around X'X" tall and around X lbs?" I know there is a mathematical way to figure it out based on the ties he's standing on, etc. I just didn't know if they've done that or released that yet before I recreate the wheel and try to figure it out. I think that would be really helpful in trying to rule possible BGs out.
 
Has LE every mentioned facial hair on BG re: photo? IMO there is a mustache there but I want to know if this has been confirmed by LE. Thanks.
 
Maybe this guy truly is a transient, and he walked into the area and walked away. Maybe he's still just wandering around in another area now with a changed appearance. Nobody really knows him, and he has no family or friends.
 
Tonight I think of the families of Abby and Libby. I pray for them in these hours of unbearable pain and grief. May they one day find peace while on Earth.
 
Maybe this guy truly is a transient, and he walked into the area and walked away. Maybe he's still just wandering around in another area now with a changed appearance. Nobody really knows him, and he has no family or friends.

That's the scariest kind of suspect, because they're the hardest kind to catch since they have no friends or family to notice any different behavior and turn them in to LE.
 
That's the scariest kind of suspect, because they're the hardest kind to catch since they have no friends or family to notice any different behavior and turn them in to LE.
Scary yes. But so too the killer who lives among us.
 
That's the scariest kind of suspect, because they're the hardest kind to catch since they have no friends or family to notice any different behavior and turn them in to LE.

Seems unlikely that a transient would go unnoticed in a town of 3,000 people. Folks would almost certainly remember seeing someone who wasn't local in the time leading up to or proceeding the murders.
 
I apologize if this has been discussed. I just imported the BG photo into a program in order to zoom in very close. To me, JMO, it looks as if there is a long object going down the front of his jeans from the right pocket. Like a baton. IMO

I think there is something like that too. Could you possibly check BGs left leg above knee inner area w the zoom program? What is there? TIA
 
It's just that from the beginning I've "seen" a younger guy, maybe 25. Then when someone did the side-by-side with the PO I thought he could be even younger.

Maybe we should consider someone closer to the girl's age who knew they were there that day. He sure looked comfortable walking on that "bridge" like Someone who comes there a lot.

And remember police were looking for someone w/o a vehicle, a hitchhiker.
Was basically insunuated I was a fool for asking how BG got out of there unnoticed.
Pretty sure police have made it sound as though he was carless.
He was no doubt wet also from the river.
Surely a car would have been seen nearby if he had parked one? Probably cant take that down the trail (or can you?). Would make sense he would transport the girls elsewhere if he had taken a car
I think the perp is mid 30s early 40s..anything is possible though

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
 
I'd say just reply to this post instead of my giant one and we can call it accomplice maybe? But story link above is here as well so we don't clog up the thread with my wall of text: To summarize it's a theory of an accomplice to Larry Hall's doings still in and around Wabash area possibly. LE close to case was a believer in the theory.

http://m.chronicle-tribune.com/arch...912-fb50-5896-8581-1409baadaede.html?mode=jqm

What I find very interesting about this guy is that he had quite a low IQ but evaded detection for so long.
 
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