IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #37

[WebSight]

First, that is not RL or BG! Those are the two guys walking on the bridge that were searchers for the girls. That picture on the left was taken the morning the girls were found.

I am trying to show is the perspective from similar angles on the bridge and how big or small (people or cars) would be due to those heights and angled perspectives. There has been debate as to whether a car could have been in the circled part on the middle frame (the picture of Abby, cropped out). Some have felt that there is a car down by those trees. I agree that if there were a car or truck then that adds a new piece to the puzzle and it was worth entertaining. I knew that there could not be a car down there but I am visual so I came up with a way that might be convincing to other visual people like myself.

FWIW. It may be slightly off but I don't think by much. It should say "same trees," plural, Sheesh, where is that proofreader when I need them!! The guys in the right frame are not standing on the ground and should be slightly smaller but not as small as the guys in the back in the left frame, so somewhere in between. If we were to reduce the guys on the bottom right then we would need to reduce the truck size, but only slightly. imo,moo, and all that!

I forgot to post the links: 1st photograph:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209763320017791&set=a.10209763319577780.1073741969.1174987605&type=3&theatre
3rd photograph:http://www.bicentennialpark.net/

 

[Gloriosa]

First, that is not RL or BG! Those are the two guys walking on the bridge that were searchers for the girls. That picture on the left was taken the morning the girls were found.

I am trying to show is the perspective from similar angles on the bridge and how big or small (people or cars) would be due to those heights and angled perspectives. There has been debate as to whether a car could have been in the circled part on the middle frame (the picture of Abby, cropped out). Some have felt that there is a car down by those trees. I agree that if there were a car or truck then that adds a new piece to the puzzle and it was worth entertaining. I knew that there could not be a car down there but I am visual so I came up with a way that might be convincing to other visual people like myself.

FWIW. It may be slightly off but I don't think by much. It should say "same trees," plural, Sheesh, where is that proofreader when I need them!! The guys in the right frame are not standing on the ground and should be slightly smaller but not as small as the guys in the back in the left frame, so somewhere in between. If we were to reduce the guys on the bottom right then we would need to reduce the truck size, but only slightly. imo,moo, and all that!

Thank you for this!


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[Deleted member 155000]

I keep going back and forth with this myself. One day my brain tells me that even with the early searches, the bodies could have easily been missed.

But then RL describes the crime scene as "pristine".

If the girls got into a vehicle, I'm wondering how on earth the unsub was able to return them to the scene :thinking: - although, I do think it is possible....

What if the vehicle wasn't a car, but a gator or 4-wheeler?


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[tokyorose]

Jmo if LE felt that RL was their guy for sure and found items to back up their suspcions, I don't know if they would go straight back to focusing the tips. Sure, they would still be checking them all but I think they would have other things to do to verify things about RL. Jmo

There are a lot of people working on this investigation. JMO but I expect they could do both.

 

[ladymoffat]

I forgot to post the links: 1st photograph:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209763320017791&set=a.10209763319577780.1073741969.1174987605&type=3&theatre
3rd photograph:http://www.bicentennialpark.net/

Thank you for doing this!

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[Knox]

I keep going back and forth with this myself. One day my brain tells me that even with the early searches, the bodies could have easily been missed.

But then RL describes the crime scene as "pristine".

If the girls got into a vehicle, I'm wondering how on earth the unsub was able to return them to the scene :thinking: - although, I do think it is possible....

Further complicated by searchers supposedly finding the girls bodies by following footprints. Obviously we don't know how many sets there were. Just seems very risky to return them to the area, even after dark.

 

[Tricia]

so allowed or not? MSM but not LE...

Since this is an MSM article you can discuss what the girls said about a man in black.

However, since there are no pictures and the police have given us a picture of the suspect there really isn't anywhere to go with the "man in black" story.

 

[DatelineFan]

I just cannot believe that anyone would put these girls in a car and then dump them near where they were taken. That just sounds like the least possible situation to me.

 

[ocgrad]

Yes, possibilities. Just doesn't make much sense. If the girls were in a vehicle, the perp(s) should have wanted to leave the area for a more remote place. Why come back to an area with homes nearby, and searchers out looking for them?

Unless they wanted them to be found as in a targeted murder to send a message to someone. Thinking like drug dealers and other criminals someone could owe in some way. JMO.

 

[KyMom]

What if you knew that the search had been called off for the night and you would have the cover of darkness, after all it was after midnight at that point. I would really like to know ( obviously LE isn't going to say) if the area they were found was searched the day before. If so it would give the killer confidence that LE wouldn't be back until at least daylight and they would have plenty of time.

To me that sounds like it would still be taking a huge risk. Even if the search was officially called off the for the night, he couldn't be sure of the possibility family and/or friends could come back and look some more or with it being known by then the girls were missing, if people close by could be keeping an eye out during the night for anyone coming/going from that area.


jmo

 

[SunStar]

Then why/how did they end up in the place the bodies were found? Its my understanding the area can only be accessed by foot?

He/they drove them to the opposite side and walked them into the woods by the creek. MOO.

 

[haystack]

Since this is an MSM article you can discuss what the girls said about a man in black.

However, since there are no pictures and the police have given us a picture of the suspect there really isn't anywhere to go with the "man in black" story.

Thank you, yes, not far to go, but wanted to say that BG could easily have been wearing a black outfit under the dad clothes. IMO, if people saw an all-black dresser, they would notice, and it couldn't be any farther from what BG was described as wearing. The perfect distraction imo

 

[Falling Down]

I just cannot believe that anyone would put these girls in a car and then dump them near where they were taken. That just sounds like the least possible situation to me.

...and where would someone park their vehicle?

 

[Tricia]

If its public that they are a sex offender, cant we add there name on here too look up? Afterall it is public they are a sex offender along with the crime committed?????? Right!!!

If I give permission for random sex offenders to be "looked up" then this thread will go off the rails in seconds.

Remember, the police have the sex offender information.

If you want to look up a specific sex offender send me a private message with the information and I will decide.

 

[ocgrad]

If they were returned via the cemetery, maybe even walked "down the hill" to get to that spot

Looking at the terrain or topo map it seems an easier path to get to where they were found from the trail that leads down from the cemetery than the trail behind RL'S. It would be super difficult to carry weight or even force 2 girls to walk through the steep ravines. But it seems a gentler slope down from the cemetery to me.

 

[graceness81]

One in every FIVE women is raped at some time in their lives.

And that's of the women willing to admit.

 

[tokyorose]

I just cannot believe that anyone would put these girls in a car and then dump them near where they were taken. That just sounds like the least possible situation to me.

The whole crime seems pretty improbable to me which is why in JMO it was pretty carefully planned. One of several things happened based on where we have determined them to be on the bridge when they encountered BG...after so many threads and discussions I no longer have any opinion at all as to which one it was.

1. girls were led off the bridge/ trail and put in a waiting car

2. girls were walked off the bridge and crossed the creek to get to where they were found

3. girls took video of BG and began to walk back across the bridge and passed BG in doing so, at some point on their way across BG comes up behind them after doubling back and takes them "down the hill" on the other side of the bridge.

murdering 2 girls in broad daylight so close to highways, trails, other hikers and homes is quite the risky thing to do..JMO

 

[ZacksDad]

49F. He's wearing boots, baggy pants, a hoodie with the hood pulled up, a zipped up bulky coat, a ball cap, and at least one hand is in a pocket. No one needs two hats and two coats in 49 degree weather unless they grew up in the tropics.

Compared to what the girls are wearing, he is overdressed. In fact, the extra clothing disguise both his build and his facial features.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/delphi-in/46923/february-weather/332895

I just don't understand the disguise idea.

1. Was he disguising who he was to the girls? (I don't see reason for this, a creepy guy disguised and a creepy guy they knew would cause similar reaction)
2. Was he disguising from other hikers (Maybe but it seems no-one saw him)
3. Was he disguising from the possibility of being caught on the girls phone and either leaving her phone for LE or the video being uploaded to the cloud? (Wow, he planned this really well. Maybe he also had a voice changer to throw us off also knowing his voice would be recorded.)

I have run out of ideas.

 

[graceness81]

I just don't understand the disguise idea.

1. Was he disguising who he was to the girls? (I don't see reason for this, a creepy guy disguised and a creepy guy they knew would cause similar reaction)
2. Was he disguising from other hikers (Maybe but it seems no-one saw him)
3. Was he disguising from the possibility of being caught on the girls phone and either leaving her phone for LE or the video being uploaded to the cloud? (Wow, he planned this really well. Maybe he also had a voice changer to throw us off also knowing his voice would be recorded.)

I have run out of ideas.

Maybe it's not a disguise in a flamboyant sense, but just a way to hide his identity so no one could say, I saw so and so on the trails that day... imo

 

[tokyorose]

I just don't understand the disguise idea.

1. Was he disguising who he was to the girls? (I don't see reason for this, a creepy guy disguised and a creepy guy they knew would cause similar reaction)
2. Was he disguising from other hikers (Maybe but it seems no-one saw him)
3. Was he disguising from the possibility of being caught on the girls phone and either leaving her phone for LE or the video being uploaded to the cloud? (Wow, he planned this really well. Maybe he also had a voice changer to throw us off also knowing his voice would be recorded.)

I have run out of ideas.

I would guess number 2... There were other hikers out there that day. It was reported on MSM that friends of Abby and Libby reported seeing them there that day and waving to them. There was a woman interviewed who was there at 3:49 pm and reported seeing a man and another couple. Also it was a really lovely day and it is possible that BG expected the people would be around who could recognize him. That being said, I don't think it wasn't much of a disguise... really just put your hoodie up underneath your hat to cover your hair.