IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #38

[guruagain]

Or - one survived in the water and pulled the other one out to get help, but succumbed possibly to hypothermia.. Awful thought, I know.

-Nin

Except it appears to be a very steep bank on that side of the creek.

 

[jenthern]

That is a good find! Thank you! Respectfully, I would ask people to be really sensitive when discussing cause of death, there is a lot of rumor floating around and I'd hate to think we here caused the family more pain then they are already in. TIA.. I guess it is JMO but the horrible ways in which Abbey and Libby died are so varied that speculation on cause just doesn't get us very far...but of course that is JMO and I can always just scroll and roll.. TIA

I understand what you are saying, however, I would think hearing about them possibly drowned, dragged, held at gun point, sexually assaulted, naked and all of the very many things discussed here on this board would be extremely upsetting to a family member, which is why, if I were a family member I would never join any forum discussing the death of my family member. I couldn't take it. That being said, I would appreciate people that care so much that they research every angle and possibility hoping that maybe, just maybe, they will see something no one else did or shine a light where it hasn't yet been shone or at the very least, keep my child/family member's memory alive. JMO.

 

[margarita25]

If a family member of a victim says something on SM, are we allowed to paraphrase it?

 

[tokyorose]

So new line of thought I don't think has been mentioned before. The police said a few times that the girls stayed together, that one may have had a chance to make a run for it, but they kept together.

Maybe there was an "agreement" that one would be assaulted and both let go if they went along with the plan.

Hence, no struggle, no screaming and they walked themselves to the final restung spot. Imo.

Seems plausible

 

[ocgrad]

Jumping off yours

Between 10 am and 3 pm on Wednesday, LE switch from 'watch your kids and whereabouts' to 'there is no immediate danger." At 10, they had already been briefed on the autopsies. So what changed? Must have been a credible tip?


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Before the photos were released.

 

[WestieMom]

Wow.


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Why is the open casket question a big deal? This is a thread about 2 murders and we know that cause of death can often link a crime to a particular person / motive etc. doubtful we will get those answers but it's not an illogical question. For example: multiple stab wounds = passion killing or murderer knowing the victim(s)

<modsnip>.


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[IllinoisMissing]

I never said they were. I asked those who believe they were to explain why they would have been moved to where they were found rather than just left in the water. That's especially confusing if one or both of them died from falling or being pushed off the bridge. MOO

Your first sentence of the post I quoted said you had seen so many times that the girls were killed in the water.

I was saying I had never seen that. I was trying to clarify that, in case I missed it. So are saying other people theorized that? Sorry. I did not read it correctly then, if that's what you meant.

JMO



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[liltexans]

If a family member of a victim says something on SM, are we allowed to paraphrase it?

Where on SM? If it's a comment under a MSM news article, you can direct us to the comment, but we can't discuss the comment here. If it's something on a family member's personal SM, then no, we can't even mention it because that would be considered sleuthing the family.

 

[FreeRoad]

If a family member of a victim says something on SM, are we allowed to paraphrase it?

A link to the rules is posted on the first page of every thread, and at the top of every screen you are on here. As a new member, I reread them every day myself !

 

[margarita25]

Where on SM? If it's a comment under a MSM news article, you can direct us to the comment, but we can't discuss the comment here. If it's something on a family member's personal SM, then no, we can't even mention it because that would be considered sleuthing the family.

Thanks liltexans. I believe it was on their personal Facebook very early on, then removed, so this answers my question. Thank you. I'll double check with my "source" to see if by chance it appeared under an msm article. Thanks again.

 

[liltexans]

[video=twitter;845369842035240961]https://twitter.com/ISPLafayette/status/845369842035240961[/video]

Sgt. Kim Riley&#8207;@ISPLafayette 13m
13 minutes ago

Have left the command center. Will not return till Monday morning unless something happens. Have a great weekend.

 

[fruity]

I wonder if there could be a compromise regarding the thread being closed during the US night time? are there any mods outside the US who could watch over the thread so the non US websleuthers can participate during friendlier hours? It's so disappointing to come home from work and be shut off from replying.

I'm not making this post as a challenge, I understand the need for it to be closed, I'm just hoping there might be a way it could be left open for a few hours longer please?

I will report this post so the mods see it.

 

[BunnyHop]

Before the photos were released.

They had hundreds of tips less then 24 hours after the girls were found, BEFORE that photo was released.

 

[Eileen730]

Please tell me where it says the girls were killed in the water? Or even ever in the water as I have not seen that in MSM or from LE.

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It was a discussion. Nothing more

 

[Momma2cam]

I personally don't think RL is BG either ( sorry sometimes quoting is messed up here for me and other times it works just fine!)
I loved the comment made about collateral damage.
I believe RL is collateral damage here. He's made some really awful choices in life but I don't think that he'll end up being BG.
I actually feel sorry for him. So many have called him a killer without one shred of evidence to back up that claim. If he turns out not to be BG, those same people will just turn around and start pointing fingers at the next person without waiting for evidence to pass judgement. It hurts them none because they are sitting ten States away anonymously behind their keyboard while real people are forever affected by their rumors and judgmental gossiping.
If RL is BG then I'm sure we'll know in time. At that point he'd be open game but until then, he may just be collateral damage.

I've been on the fence about any involvement RL has- and still am. But, after the announcement that there are 50-60 persons of interest, I'm less comfortable seeing his photo plastered all over these threads and sm. Jmo.

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[Spellbound]

Does anyone know if the girls had an open casket at their funerals?

They did:

Music played while weeping mourners – many of them teenagers – filed past the white, open caskets of Abigail Williams, 13, and Liberty German, 14, and talked with their family members on the floor of the school gymnasium.
http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_herald_journal/memorial-for-teen-girls-lasts-nearly-seven-hours/article_4b1989d8-f7db-11e6-9f4b-ff5056c72de5.html

 

[margarita25]

So new line of thought I don't think has been mentioned before. The police said a few times that the girls stayed together, that one may have had a chance to make a run for it, but they kept together.

Maybe there was an "agreement" that one would be assaulted and both let go if they went along with the plan.

Hence, no struggle, no screaming and they walked themselves to the final restung spot. Imo.

Ugh I hate reading this because these um, monsters, seem to say this often. Little Jessica asked ARS (while she was tied to his bed being assaulted for hours) if she would ever see her mother again. These iirc were her last words. He lied to her and told her yes if she complied.

 

[fruity]

Although it is frustrating, I keep trying to remember that often it does take longer than a month for an arrest to be made.

I'm thinking again of Morgan Huxley's murderer - they had CCTV footage of him and knew who it was from the very start. But it still took a month for them to get everything together and for their evidence to be watertight before making an arrest.

 

[kirkassoc]

While sleuthing for "tributaries" to Monon High Bridge, etc., I came across the most interesting document (National Registry of Historic Places). On page 8, there is a TERRIFIC map of the bridge, surrounding properties, cemetery, deer creek (I even noticed what seems to be a path leading from the cemetery to the creek ). This is a black and white map (drawn items), but has many great details (esp. page 8). I haven't read it all. It's dated 2002, so it's fairly recent. Thought it might prove worth sleuthing. It seems to be 65 pages long. It includes, describes (and has photos which you can zoom in) every building and structure and house on this 770 acres. Amazing bit of information.

https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset?assetID=e8cd4d1a-7603-4395-b97e-19e6f0201b9a

 

[Spellbound]

I have previously posted the search activities per the Carroll County fire scanner and I emphasize there isn't much traffic but it does give you a timeline of certain activities.

This link opens to a folder. The audio files containing search radio traffic are there. There is a text file that lists which file, what time in the file, and a transcript of the message.

The one thing I will point out is that the last activity is likely at a point shortly after the girls were found which occurred at 12:11pm.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx0LL2gY_AordzJTTTAtT0FLbnM

I am still finishing up with Indiana State Police scanner traffic and I will be posting those audio files and a text file just like I have for the Fire Scanner likely for tomorrow. The same is true as with the fire scanner there isn't much radio traffic. However, it too provides indications of the types of searches going on and where and when. The key things so far:

There was a helicopter based searched that was conducted between 9am and 12:00pm on the 14th. There was one State Police helicopter involved. There is mention of a Life Flight helicopter (at 9am) but it is unclear if that helicopter was involved with the search or passing through the airspace. The helicopter search was only conducted East of the bridge along the creek and the land surrounding it on both sides of the creek to a distance of 4 miles. The helicopter search did not sight the girls.

While there has been mention of dogs involved in the search it appears that they did not arrive prior to the girls being found. The last transmission concerning an ETA for the dogs occurred about the time the girls were found.

In conjunction with that, the dogs were to be directed to a location where tracks had been found. There is no indication in the radio transmissions that these would be the same tracks that led to the girls. There was radio traffic to ISP personnel to keep people away from the tracks until the dogs arrived.

There is no scanner traffic confirming that the girls were found and a citizen did report to an ISP officer that the girls had been found already but the ISP dispatch center had no confirmation of that - that was about 25 minutes after the girls were found. Keep in mind that the dispatch center would not be necessarily privy to, or in contact with the search command which should also be noted was not being run by ISP. And I would also add that when situations like this (finding bodies) occur it is often the case where they don't broadcast that over the air and that leads to situations such as this where not all units involved know that the find has been made.

Like I said, I should be able to get those files uploaded and write up the text file like I did for the fire scanner for tomorrow. The only thing I will say about the ISP scanner archive (out of Tippicanoe County) is that it is a stereo broadcast with one speaker ISP and the other speaker Lafayette, West Lafayette, and Purdue police departments. So there can be and is many times where there are transmissions at the same time. It will be easier to listen to if I isolate the times and which speaker you should be listening to rather than trying to pick it out of everything else going on.

That is a lot of amazing work to do. Thank you for all the effort put in!