IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #38

[Deleted member 278]

While sleuthing for "tributaries" to Monon High Bridge, etc., I came across the most interesting document (National Registry of Historic Places). On page 8, there is a TERRIFIC map of the bridge, surrounding properties, cemetery, deer creek (I even noticed what seems to be a path leading from the cemetery to the creek ). This is a black and white map (drawn items), but has many great details (esp. page 8). I haven't read it all. It's dated 2002, so it's fairly recent. Thought it might prove worth sleuthing. It seems to be 65 pages long. It includes, describes (and has photos which you can zoom in) every building and structure and house on this 770 acres. Amazing bit of information.

https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset?assetID=e8cd4d1a-7603-4395-b97e-19e6f0201b9a

Mmmmmm... I like this!

 

[Spellbound]

Why is the open casket question a big deal? This is a thread about 2 murders and we know that cause of death can often link a crime to a particular person / motive etc. doubtful we will get those answers but it's not an illogical question. For example: multiple stab wounds = passion killing or murderer knowing the victim(s)

<modsnip>.


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I don't think there is a problem discussing COD, but it has not been released so would all be speculation at this point. We know so little that it coud quickly escalate into wild assumptions. Posters would need to carefully follow the TOS here. No rumors, no social media posts, no quotes from FB, no blogs. Make sure to put a link to specific sites of approved media, or be clear that a post is JMO (Just My Opinion) or MOO (My Own Opinion). And do not get overly graphic, please.

Does this help?

 

[NancyDrew007]

They had hundreds of tips less then 24 hours after the girls were found, BEFORE that photo was released.

Wow, I was gearing up to try to write a list of ideas for what these tips were and had to stop a minute. Tips would not be coming from family or close friends or neighbors of RL. Or the folks that were out at the park on the 13th. I imagine LE was out talking to these folks already.

Who does that leave?

- anyone who saw strangers in and around town
- anyone who noticed co-workers, relatives, friends acting strangely around the time of the 13th and 14th
- anyone who knew of bad blood among town members
- anybody who knew of people who had planned to go to the bridge on the 13th

That doesn't seem like that alone would have changed LE's warning to people. Maybe the tips in conjunction with the in-person interviews got them on a certain path?



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[TheOtherChristina]

While sleuthing for "tributaries" to Monon High Bridge, etc., I came across the most interesting document (National Registry of Historic Places). On page 8, there is a TERRIFIC map of the bridge, surrounding properties, cemetery, deer creek (I even noticed what seems to be a path leading from the cemetery to the creek ). This is a black and white map (drawn items), but has many great details (esp. page 8). I haven't read it all. It's dated 2002, so it's fairly recent. Thought it might prove worth sleuthing. It seems to be 65 pages long. It includes, describes (and has photos which you can zoom in) every building and structure and house on this 770 acres. Amazing bit of information.

https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset?assetID=e8cd4d1a-7603-4395-b97e-19e6f0201b9a

Wow! What an amazing find! That's some good sleuthing.

 

[Jethro4WS]

That is a lot of amazing work to do. Thank you for all the effort put in!

There are 168 hours of scanner traffic - 21 hours per scanner (5:30pm on the 13th to 2:30pm on the 14th). There are 7 scanners to listen to because mutual aid fire departments for Delphi comes out of White County (4 separate fire scanners - no LE), Tippicanoe County (3 scanners, fire, dual LE as I mentioned, and a P25) and, of course Carroll County fire (haven't found a Carroll County LE scanner yet).

I hope to get a full extent of the search activities nailed down as best as I can. I have been hoping to find talk-around traffic rather than dispatch traffic as that might give more search details but I have not encountered it so far and I don't expect to at this point.

One thing that I forgot to point out is that there was an Amber Alert active for a girl out of Gary Indiana so Indiana State Police would have been looking for that girl. This was going on at about the same time the girls in Delphi were reported missing. A BOLO for Libby and Abby did not go out over the Tippicanoe LE scanner until 1:36am on the 14th. I assume a BOLO in Carroll County had been out earlier but like I said I haven't found an LE scanner for Carroll County yet.

 

[Mainemom76]

50-60 is a big number.


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That many suspects makes me feel like they do not have dna to compare. JMO

 

[Spellbound]

While sleuthing for "tributaries" to Monon High Bridge, etc., I came across the most interesting document (National Registry of Historic Places). On page 8, there is a TERRIFIC map of the bridge, surrounding properties, cemetery, deer creek (I even noticed what seems to be a path leading from the cemetery to the creek ). This is a black and white map (drawn items), but has many great details (esp. page 8). I haven't read it all. It's dated 2002, so it's fairly recent. Thought it might prove worth sleuthing. It seems to be 65 pages long. It includes, describes (and has photos which you can zoom in) every building and structure and house on this 770 acres. Amazing bit of information.

https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset?assetID=e8cd4d1a-7603-4395-b97e-19e6f0201b9a

:giggle: thank you for posting this again. I had posted it back on 3/16, but it did not get much attention. I think there is a lot of good basic info in it, although it is 14 years old. I found it very interesting.

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo, kind of sad and ironic but but in the end, this case will be solved by dna, with very little to do with the video image. Amazingly, LE has this image, more than we have seen, yet the man is unrecognizable. Probably the video would be useful in a trial down the road, to reinforce that suspect X walks and talks in a similar fashion but I don't think it is clear enough in the end to be much more of an identifer than if Le only had a generic description. Jmo

 

[Spellbound]

There are 168 hours of scanner traffic - 21 hours per scanner (5:30pm on the 13th to 2:30pm on the 14th). There are 7 scanners to listen to because mutual aid fire departments for Delphi comes out of White County (4 separate fire scanners - no LE), Tippicanoe County (3 scanners, fire, dual LE as I mentioned, and a P25) and, of course Carroll County fire (haven't found a Carroll County LE scanner yet).

I hope to get a full extent of the search activities nailed down as best as I can. I have been hoping to find talk-around traffic rather than dispatch traffic as that might give more search details but I have not encountered it so far and I don't expect to at this point.

One thing that I forgot to point out is that there was an Amber Alert active for a girl out of Gary Indiana so Indiana State Police would have been looking for that girl. This was going on at about the same time the girls in Delphi were reported missing. A BOLO for Libby and Abby did not go out over the Tippicanoe LE scanner until 1:36am on the 14th. I assume a BOLO in Carroll County had been out earlier but like I said I haven't found an LE scanner for Carroll County yet.

I don't really inderstand scanners too well, but would this page help to find the LE scanner channel? It does say "Carroll County EMA, Carroll County Fire/EMS, Carroll County Sheriff, and Delphi Police Department utilize the Project Hoosier SAFE-T system for their primary public safety communications."

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?ctid=700

 

[BunnyHop]

Wow, I was gearing up to try to write a list of ideas for what these tips were and had to stop a minute. Tips would not be coming from family or close friends or neighbors of RL. Or the folks that were out at the park on the 13th. I imagine LE was out talking to these folks already.

Who does that leave?

- anyone who saw strangers in and around town
- anyone who noticed co-workers, relatives, friends acting strangely around the time of the 13th and 14th
- anyone who knew of bad blood among town members
- anybody who knew of people who had planned to go to the bridge on the 13th

That doesn't seem like that alone would have changed LE's warning to people. Maybe the tips in conjunction with the in-person interviews got them on a certain path?


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All of the above?

I don't know what to make of it. Boggles my mind. I can't imagine hundreds of tips before that pic was released.
That gives me a new perspective. I would like to hear other thoughts.

 

[ninij9]

IDK. The girls were found Tuesday and less then 24 hours later they have hundreds of tips from the community. I find that astounding.
AND, that's before they released that picture! What do you make of it?

Nvmnd

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[MsFacetious]

The tv show csi told us that a perp can be linked by family dna if there is enough matching to the dna genes.

So this means that LE may cant find the perp from a 100% dna match.

But maybe they can find a relative that has most common dna markings and work their way from there.

So is it possible that the perp nor his parents nor siblings have their dna on file?

I can't think of a blood relative of mine who has DNA on file. Not that they are angels by any stretch, just haven't had to give DNA.

So if myself, my brother or my dad committed a crime... we couldn't be linked by familial DNA.

 

[ninij9]

Wow, I was gearing up to try to write a list of ideas for what these tips were and had to stop a minute. Tips would not be coming from family or close friends or neighbors of RL. Or the folks that were out at the park on the 13th. I imagine LE was out talking to these folks already.

Who does that leave?

- anyone who saw strangers in and around town
- anyone who noticed co-workers, relatives, friends acting strangely around the time of the 13th and 14th
- anyone who knew of bad blood among town members
- anybody who knew of people who had planned to go to the bridge on the 13th

That doesn't seem like that alone would have changed LE's warning to people. Maybe the tips in conjunction with the in-person interviews got them on a certain path?



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Well, I DO think some of those tips could be from family, friends etc, perhaps they needed to call it in anonymously?

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[Jethro4WS]

I don't really inderstand scanners too well, but would this page help to find the LE scanner channel? It does say "Carroll County EMA, Carroll County Fire/EMS, Carroll County Sheriff, and Delphi Police Department utilize the Project Hoosier SAFE-T system for their primary public safety communications."

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?ctid=700

No, but I appreciate you taking the time to look that up. I have a subscription to radioreference.com but what you have to find is someone that not only broadcasts that scanner on the internet but also has archived recordings so the scanner archives I have are all the ones via Broadcastify. Radio Reference is tied to Broadcastify where you can listen to scanners live all over the country. It is possible that some other site might have archived scanner recordings but I have not gone looking for them yet.

 

[ocgrad]

Wow, I was gearing up to try to write a list of ideas for what these tips were and had to stop a minute. Tips would not be coming from family or close friends or neighbors of RL. Or the folks that were out at the park on the 13th. I imagine LE was out talking to these folks already.

Who does that leave?

- anyone who saw strangers in and around town
- anyone who noticed co-workers, relatives, friends acting strangely around the time of the 13th and 14th
- anyone who knew of bad blood among town members
- anybody who knew of people who had planned to go to the bridge on the 13th

That doesn't seem like that alone would have changed LE's warning to people. Maybe the tips in conjunction with the in-person interviews got them on a certain path?



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Wouldn't some of those earliest tips have come from the family and friends? Not necessarily recognizing BG but naming those who might have targeted them or who might have known they were there.

 

[Confusion]

Your first sentence of the post I quoted said you had seen so many times that the girls were killed in the water.

I was saying I had never seen that. I was trying to clarify that, in case I missed it. So are saying other people theorized that? Sorry. I did not read it correctly then, if that's what you meant.

JMO

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I've never believed the girls were ever in the water, and that they were killed where they were found. I was just wondering if there was a practical reason to move them if they had died in the water. Several people have suggested that one or both may have fallen, or been pushed, from the bridge when confronted, some have suggested they may have been dumped in the water to destroy DNA and then moved, some have suggested drowning, etc., but I don't understand what they think would be a good reason to move them 50' feet from the water when they could just leave quickly without risking being seen. Just trying to look at all plausible scenarios and was wondering if these might be some I'm just missing something in. MOO

 

[Yvettea]

That gives me a new perspective. I would like to hear other thoughts.

First I wonder if someone saw (or heard) anything. Then I wonder about suspions about a known criminal element.

 

[NancyDrew007]

Well, I DO think some of those tips could be from family, friends etc, perhaps they needed to call it in anonymously?

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I stand corrected. Great point!


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[Jethro4WS]

On your text page it mentions they needed a pickup truck removed. What is that about? TIA.

I believe that a firefighter might have parked a pickup truck and it was blocking the road that goes under the bridge on the SE end - near the top of N625W.

 

[margarita25]

I personally don't think RL is BG either ( sorry sometimes quoting is messed up here for me and other times it works just fine!)
I loved the comment made about collateral damage.
I believe RL is collateral damage here. He's made some really awful choices in life but I don't think that he'll end up being BG.
I actually feel sorry for him. So many have called him a killer without one shred of evidence to back up that claim. If he turns out not to be BG, those same people will just turn around and start pointing fingers at the next person without waiting for evidence to pass judgement. It hurts them none because they are sitting ten States away anonymously behind their keyboard while real people are forever affected by their rumors and judgmental gossiping.
If RL is BG then I'm sure we'll know in time. At that point he'd be open game but until then, he may just be collateral damage.

As I stated earlier I am not feeling sorry for anyone until LE has officially cleared him. It is too early to tell IMO what his potential involvement is if any. They went back there for a reason. Moo. Could turn out to be a dead end. When he has been cleared though, I will feel sorry for him then.

ETA: Does this mean I'm calling him a killer? Not at all, I have no idea what his role is, if any. I agree though it's probably harsh out there on SM since LE hasn't officially named him as the killer.