IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #5

[Thyme]

Had them already done. This is the best I can do DeDee. Not very clear. Looks as though that brown bit on HIS right side is flat with the blue jeans and his hand is in there.When I zoom in on this...very distorted...it looks like a a white object coming out of his mouth..cigarette?

 

[mpnola]

Woo hoo! I've been looking all over for those! Thanks mom2four!! That particular color combination doesn't seem to be very common. I'm hoping someone will recognize it!

Lol. Except the color does not even come down close to the crotch on either side. I think they are plain ole man jeans.

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[Elainera]

There sure are some wild rumors flying around that town right now. I'm seeing them on social media. Who the perp(s) are, item(s) used in the killing, etc. Are these underground rumors allowed or a violation? There's no person(s) named.

No it's not allowed. Only msm and LE are allowed as sources.

 

[mpnola]

I am always very supportive of everyone in a missing persons case. But I said from moment 1, they should have called for thermal imaging help. It's done all the time! Even without foul play, these were kids who were last seen in rough terrain. Hours of an injured child could mean life and death. They didn't have to search the world, but should have searched at least that area around the bridge! There are no leaves and no other people in there at night. So these girls should have been scanned for. I will always have a hard time with that decision. I'm not le and I posted that night about it needing to be done. This should be standard in a case like this. All the factors were perfect.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/watch/how-is-thermal-technology-helping-in-the-manhunt/vp-BBl4CsE

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[jillycat]

This speculation is NOT insane. I used to own a 9. When I first saw the picture that's what it looked like, a gun to me, plain as day (also or possibly a hammer).

I'm not saying it is for sure, but it deeeeeefinitey looks like one and I posted that the angle has been driving me bonkers for days. Mooooooooooo

So it's OK for everyone to speculate about hoodie, no hoodie, hat, no hat, but not a gun? To call someone else's opinion about what they see as insane is disrespectful.

I guess what I don't understand is how we are getting into 9mm's and Glocks, and if I'm reading correctly in a recent post, even "automatics". And in language stated as fact.

Yes, handguns have an obvious basic uniform shape and size, but claiming one can distinguish between a 9mm vs .40, etc., through some guy's pocket in a grainy picture is reaching. IF it's even a gun.

 

[rotary_dial]

This speculation is NOT insane. I used to own a 9. When I first saw the picture that's what it looked like, a gun to me, plain as day (also or possibly a hammer).

I'm not saying it is for sure, but it deeeeeefinitey looks like one and I posted that the angle has been driving me bonkers for days. Mooooooooooo

So it's OK for everyone to speculate about hoodie, no hoodie, hat, no hat, but not a gun? To call someone else's opinion about what they see as insane is disrespectful.

If that is a handgun outline in the picture, it is absolutely impossible to determine the specific caliber from that picture.

At most, it could be guessed its a semiautomatic handgun.

That is what the poster is referring to as insane.

I could say the man in the picture appears to have two arms. If I told you I'm absolutely sure he had a rose tattoo on his forearm which is hidden by the jacket, wouldn't that be a little insane?


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[mymagic]

What is that brown in front of his hip? Some kind of fanny pack? What about the hat..is it a ball cap..odd looking.

 

[Robert Lindsay]

Let me just throw this out there.

Notice how LE thinks this guy "participated" in the killings? What an odd thing to say! Why not just say he did it? What does participated imply? Participated could indeed imply that there was more than one killer, correct?

Ok let's suppose that not just Bridge Man but Bridge Man and a partner killed these girls. Partner? Well, for now let us suggest Man in Black. Part of the problem here is a backpack was discarded a suspect, yet BM has no backpack! And neither do the girls! Huh? So where did the backpack come from? Wa-la. It came from the MIB.

This solves other problems. Everyone is wondering how the heck this one guy controls two wily teenage girls. All kids that age are pretty wild, defiant and disobedient, in fact, that age is peak for that. One guy, even with a gun, controlling two girls? Maybe for some time, like hours? Huh?

Wa-la. Problem solved. There was not just one killer but two killers. BM and MIB, his partner in murder. Two men, both armed, could have easily controlled those two girls. No problems at all.

At some point the girls are killed and the killers leave. On the way out, MIB discards his pack.

Another possible solution to the problem of how to control these two girls. Suppose there were not only two men both with guns, but suppose they manage to um, restrain these girls somehow so it might be rather difficult to run away. It's even hard to run away with your hands tied. You need your arms free for balance when you run?

One other way the girls could have been restrained was to restrain them and then put them on "leashes" of some sort. There are a variety of materials that could be used. Now the girls cannot run away at all because they like pets on a leash.

Just throwing some stuff out there.

 

[Lilibet]

About what topics? Just curious. Meaning like people mentioning FB and the like or do we have to have a mod intercede in every post? Confused.

Here is a link to the rules, including social media. FB posts are considered rumors unless they are MSM, LE and some sites approved by mods on a case by case basis. Comments on FB posts are off limits and considered rumor. Family FB is off limits. We all need to review the rules from time to time. But no, you don't have to have a mod intercede on every post. But they are happy to answer questions. When in doubt, ask and don't post it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?159-The-Rules

 

[DeDee]

My condolences to the families.

I am having trouble understanding how the girls ended up so far from the bridge.through rugged terrain. Is there a trail on the north side of the creek headed that direction, even if it is not an official trail? It is possible to move bodies easier in water.

My condolences to the families.

Amen. Absolutely, condolences to the families for this is forever a tragic watershed for families.

It is possible the perp took them to location by force,most victims will go willfully when threatened.Also possible they could have gone there on their own for other reasons.jmo.

they could have gone there on their own

No, I don't think the girls put themselves in the woods by the creek where they were found. These girls were transported from the bridge, later, they died on separate days, then they were taken to where their bodies were found. That is the timeline, correct? Sadly, the sun went down on the 13th without an Amber Alert on two missing young girls.

 

[Confusion]

Okay, y'all. I have been marathon reading here and thinking about all of this information for days while nursing a mean little upper respiratory infection and stuck inside, lethargic and feverish But, I had an epiphany tonight.

About all those bundles of whatever sticking out of his jacket, hanging around his neck, the shirt hanging out of the pants, the 'gun' in his jacket, the baton, the hat, the hoodie, the watch, the leg brace, holding up his pants, the odd choice of shoe, the beard, the ear covers, the tool belt, the whatever. We missed the whole point of all that bulk. It hit me. He is hiding a whole different set of clothes under that over sized gear, including shoes more suitable for sliding around leafy slopes. (And I bet those shoes are in a plastic bag or two and we can see their straps around his neck area.)

He entered the park in one set of gear and left in another. His jacket can't close and his pants are waaay long to cover any possibility of the underlying pants being seen. I count 4 layers of clothes on top alone.

I had suggested that too, and I think it might have been for a couple reasons - which are really variations of the same one. I thought he was wearing several layers of clothes to make himself appear heavier than he was, he could have also had a fake mustache, wig/hairpiece, contacts instead of glasses, etc. to help with disguising himself. The other reason would be to be able to remove a couple/few layers to get rid of any evidence of the girls - blood, hair, other DNA, etc. and not be recognized if seen by the same person both before and after. The extra clothes would also make it harder for them to scratch or bite him.

 

[Falling Down]

Let me just throw this out there.

Notice how LE thinks this guy "participated" in the killings? What an odd thing to say! Why not just say he did it? What does participated imply? Participated could indeed imply that there was more than one killer, correct?

Ok let's suppose that not just Bridge Man but Bridge Man and a partner killed these girls. Partner? Well, for now let us suggest Man in Black. Part of the problem here is a backpack was discarded a suspect, yet BM has no backpack! And neither do the girls! Huh? So where did the backpack come from? Wa-la. It came from the MIB.

This solves other problems. Everyone is wondering how the heck this one guy controls two wily teenage girls. All kids that age are pretty wild, defiant and disobedient, in fact, that age is peak for that. One guy, even with a gun, controlling two girls? Maybe for some time, like hours? Huh?

Wa-la. Problem solved. There was not just one killer but two killers. BM and MIB, his partner in murder. Two men, both armed, could have easily controlled those two girls. No problems at all.

At some point the girls are killed and the killers leave. On the way out, MIB discards his pack.

Another possible solution to the problem of how to control these two girls. Suppose there were not only two men both with guns, but suppose they manage to um, restrain these girls somehow so it might be rather difficult to run away. It's even hard to run away with your hands tied. You need your arms free for balance when you run?

One other way the girls could have been restrained was to restrain them and then put them on "leashes" of some sort. There are a variety of materials that could be used. Now the girls cannot run away at all because they like pets on a leash.

Just throwing some stuff out there.

Far-fetched, but plausible. These two cousins murdered quite a few women, over a short period in the late-70's.

http://www.the-line-up.com/media/the-hillside-stranglers-death-in-the-city-of-angels/

 

[Lilibet]

According to government recommendations, I don't believe an Amber Alert can be activated unless there is evidence of abduction. The guidelines linked below explain what LE has to consider before creating an Amber Alert, otherwise the whole purpose is weakened.

This case didn't really meet the criteria.

https://www.amberalert.gov/guidelines.htm

 

[LaborDayRN]

But it isn't blue denim. It's like waterproof material

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A previous poster said it was a treated denim. I sure no expert though!

 

[LaborDayRN]

Lol. Except the color does not even come down close to the crotch on either side. I think they are plain ole man jeans.

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To me it appears his hand is in the pocket of his jeans, and the top of his jeans appear brown. That's just what I see though. YMMV.

 

[mpnola]

To me it appears his hand is in the pocket of his jeans, and the top of his jeans appear brown. That's just what I see though. YMMV.

I know but both sides look brown to you? Not just his right side? And the brown in the photo makes a v to the crotch. His jeans are all blue to the crotch.

Those are real questions- I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Lol.

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[LaborDayRN]

If that is a handgun outline in the picture, it is absolutely impossible to determine the specific caliber from that picture.

At most, it could be guessed its a semiautomatic handgun.

That is what the poster is referring to as insane.

I could say the man in the picture appears to have two arms. If I told you I'm absolutely sure he had a rose tattoo on his forearm which is hidden by the jacket, wouldn't that be a little insane?


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BBM: Some people (I'm included) feel they see the outline of a hand gun through the fabric of his jacket pocket. It's a personal opinion, a "guess". No one is saying it's a fact. That's what we do here, knock idea's back and forth. Personally, I wouldn't call anyone else's idea insane. Better to treat others kindly and listen to all ideas IMO.

 

[margarita25]

I guess what I don't understand is how we are getting into 9mm's and Glocks, and if I'm reading correctly in a recent post, even "automatics". And in language stated as fact.

Yes, handguns have an obvious basic uniform shape and size, but claiming one can distinguish between a 9mm vs .40, etc., through some guy's pocket in a grainy picture is reaching. IF it's even a gun.

If that is a handgun outline in the picture, it is absolutely impossible to determine the specific caliber from that picture.

At most, it could be guessed its a semiautomatic handgun.

That is what the poster is referring to as insane.

I could say the man in the picture appears to have two arms. If I told you I'm absolutely sure he had a rose tattoo on his forearm which is hidden by the jacket, wouldn't that be a little insane?


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I strongly respectfully disagree. People who know guns can tell the difference between a .22 or .45, etc. In fact my post said that looks like a 9 or 45 right off the bat due to the shape and size. Am I right for sure? Of course I can't say that for sure. Ive been to various gun shows. I lived in Texas. I've shot various caliber guns in the woods....respectfully, I'm not sure why someone being able to possibly identify a type of gun is so inconceivable.

Re: the tattoo? A poor comparison. A tattoo does not have a 3d shape which leaves an imprint through the jacket.

 

[TeaTime]

As for the two-tone pants thing: really, he wants to be inconspicuous but chooses a very unusual pair of pants? No. They are too noticeable.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I know but both sides look brown to you? Not just his right side? And the brown in the photo makes a v to the crotch. His jeans are all blue to the crotch.

Those are real questions- I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Lol.

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I didn't take it as sarcasm. I can't be positive on his left side. On his right side it appears to me his hand is in his jean pocket and the top of his jeans appear brown. Not down to the crotch as you put it but around his pocket area. It's okay if you don't agree. I'm okay with that.