Found Deceased IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by liltexans, May 25, 2017.

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  1. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

    Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are those of two teenage girls who went missing Mondayand their deaths are being investigated as homicides, authorities said on Wednesday.

    State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said autopsies performed Wednesday determined that the bodies are those of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, both of Delphi.

    Their bodies were found Tuesday afternoon along Deer Creek near Delphi, about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis. Police said the girls’ bodies were about three-quarters of a mile from an abandoned railroad bridge where they were dropped off Monday to go hiking.

    ISP page dedicated to the investigation

    Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

    Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at
    (800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department at (765) 564-2413.

    Information can also be emailed to
    Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

    video of press conference of 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

    Audio loop http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

    Previous Thread (#59)

    *Media Maps & Timelines*

    IMAGE Discussion Thread

    Rules Etiquette & Information

    Case map by skibaboo updated with the latest grayhuze crime flow video

    grayhuze youtube channel

    Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

    RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION

    1) There are no named POIs or suspects in this case. A search warrant was served upon the owner of the property (RL) where the girls' bodies were found. RL was taken into custody for an unrelated crime during that time. His statements to press and subsequent arrest for the unrelated matters are all open for discussion.
    a. You may not outright accuse him of the murders but may make comparisons of his physical appearance and demeanor from MSM to those of the unidentified suspect on the bridge.

    b. DO NOT post photos of random individuals to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

    2) IF YOU WANT TO POST ABOUT A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER YOU MUST GET PERMISSION FIRST. Please send a PM to a moderator to gain that permission.

    3) Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.


    4) If you feel you have a tip by all means phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.
     
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  3. Steleheart

    Steleheart WS Liason Staff Member WS Liason

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    Thank you Lil t!
     
  4. Blue Amethyst

    Blue Amethyst New Member

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    In this case in Calgary Alberta, Matthew deGrood stabbed to death five university friends at a house party. Another friend had gone for food and it happened in a time span of twenty minutes while he was gone. So I think BG could have definitely murdered the girls and been out of there within the hour. Depending where he parked he could have moved through the trees without being seen or took off the coat and jeans and been the Man In black.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/matthew-degrood-brentwood-stabbing-murder-trial-1.3580058
     
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  5. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Second memorial bench dedicated to both Flora and Delphi victims

    A bench is being installed to honor the two teens who were murdered in Delphi and the four sisters who were killed in an intentionally set house fire in Flora.

    The limestone bench will be called “Six Girls Stone Immaculate," featuring all six of the victim's names. It'll be installed Thursday, with a dedication ceremony planned for the evening.
     
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  6. Crwhitlock

    Crwhitlock New Member

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    At this point I think the greatest tool LE, or anyone investigating has is prior cases. Not just SO, but anyone charged and or convicted of domestic abuse, battery, assault, stalking, kidnapping, etc. I believe the odds are very good that he has a criminal record. Compare mugshots of everyone in certain radius of the scene to the pics of BG and create a list possible matches.

    I believe this man is much younger than people assume. I think he could be in his 20's or early 30's. I believe he's local to the area. Someone who lives/works within 15 miles of the scene. He wears or wore converse style slim shoes. I don't think he has a belly, at least not a big one as appears in the photo. I think he has rope or materials in his jacket.

    I really question whether or not LE is being truthful in their statement that their still waiting on DNA lab tests. This case was one of biggest in the nation, I don't see how it could be possible the results aren't back yet. If the DNA isn't back yet, does that mean none of the men they've looked at have had their DNA compared to the DNA from the scene? "Assuming there is DNA". If they haven't gotten DNA results back yet, it's almost as if the investigation hasn't even started yet. Until they run the DNA through national databases and compare it against their top men of interest, there is very little they could have done up to this point. Interviewing men of interest and checking alibis is not going to solve this.

    DNA is going to make or break this case which is why it's so strange their saying they haven't gotten the results back from the lab yet. I mean it's been almost 6 months.. I'm afraid that could indicate they haven't found any DNA yet and are still testing different items looking for a profile. That's extremely hard for me to believe as well though. With where DNA technology is at today, it would be almost impossible to commit a crime like this where so much physical contact took place and not leave a profile. If somehow they don't have DNA, charging someone is going to be very tough let alone convicting someone.

    I keep coming across this idea that the girls were taken away in a vehicle to a place where the crime was actually committed, and then they were dumped at the location across the creek. I can't make any sense of this notion. If he got them into a vehicle he would have been gone. Period. He would have taken them far away to a secure location where he could take his time and not worry about being seen or people coming looking for the girls. <modsnip> The last place on the planet he would take them is back to that creek area. I think the assaults and murders took place right there where they were found. I think this all transpired in a very short timeframe. Less than an hour for sure, probably more like 10-15 minutes. That area was very visible. being exposed like that, doing what he was doing, put him in a very vulnerable position. He would be in a big hurry.

    I hope LE has more than their telling the public, a lot more. Because their telling us they essentially have nothing.
     
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  7. ImnoSherlock

    ImnoSherlock Occasional Poster

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    Where are they installing it?
     
  8. Idareyato

    Idareyato New Member

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    I agree with most of this but I think LE has much more and is telling us nothing. My difference in opinion stems from the idea that this was a botched kidnapping. Lately so much news has been played out on sex slaves and keeping girls in bondage, someone decided to try it and met more than he was able to handle.
     
  9. RIP Meagan + Johnny

    RIP Meagan + Johnny Active Member

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    JMO...
    Regarding DNA, I strongly feel that they have at least one sample from the CS. I also think it doesn't match anyone already in the database, meaning either this is his first crime (highly doubtful), or he has not been caught for a crime where he has been required to submit DNA (probable).
    In thread #59 it was discussed for several pages about Indiana's new swab for DNA for a felony law. I don't think they would have pushed up the law from going into effect January 2018 to July 2017, with the congressman from the Delphi area making the comments about it possibly helping Abby and Libby's case, if LE/Indiana legislature/governor didn't think it could make a difference in breaking the case. I'm not sure how this law *could* make a difference or why it's taking effect sooner than scheduled if there *wasn't* DNA evidence.
    Also, with as tight lipped, play it close to the vest, don't tip their hand as LE has been for the past 3+ months, it isn't surprising to me at all they are being evasive regarding the results.
    JMO.
     
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  10. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    According to the video at the link I posted above, I believe it is going to be installed in the town of Flora.
     
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  11. Idareyato

    Idareyato New Member

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    Also I watched a report on Zodiac last night. His first DH happened in an area with no homicides for the previous five years. So why Delphi? Likewise, a small town with little or no experience in this level.
     
  12. BoggLed in Ohio

    BoggLed in Ohio Active Member

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    I agree and also with most of your previous post and most of the post you quoted lol but I don't agree that they have a lot more evidence that we don't know about . We are almost four months into this and nothing.... and we're all still beating the same dead horses some 60,000 post or so later here on websleuths!!!!. And btw Zodiac case is crazy. I just got my DVD of the movie because I previously owned it on VHS and plan to watch it again this weekend ..because like you and a few other people here have mentioned him in passing a couple times . There are a few similarities . I know I'm babbling like I often do here... bottom line for me is I still think BG is a serial killer and he has not been caught previously for felony crimes, at least at a time or state in which he ever had to submit DNA anyways.
     
  13. iscaremyself

    iscaremyself New Member

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    they don't have DNA..there would have been an arrest. Science can even find family members related to a sample of DNA, so that would mean neither the killer nor any of his family members have ever had their DNA taken. That is beyond the pale to me. Ergo no DNA
     
  14. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 On Time Out

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    I would be very surprised if any of my family had any dna on record,
     
  15. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think family-linked DNA is done automatically. Is it even legal in all states? And there is no guarantee that any of BG's relatives would be in the system.
     
  16. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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  17. Crwhitlock

    Crwhitlock New Member

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    I don't believe this was a kidnapping attempt. This was a sexual homocide. Had this been a kidnapping attempt he would have led them towards the area his vehicle was parked. Instead he led them into the middle of the woods. If he was able to direct them to the middle of the woods I see no reason why he wouldn't have been able to direct them to his vehicle. Had it been a kidnapping attempt gone wrong, I think one of the girls would have escaped or at least tried to escape and the bodies would have been found in different locations from one another. The fact they were found together leads me to believe they complied with what he wanted and went where he directed them.

    They were teenage girls, I think they could have outrun him or at least gained a good deal of ground before he caught them and he wouldn't have been able to catch them both unless he shot one or both of them, which by all indications is not what happened. Had he wanted to abduct them I think he could have.

    There was a road right below the bridge where he could have placed his vehicle. There was also the cemetery parking area very close. If he had tried an abduction and they took off running, I don't see how he could have caught them both. By the time he caught one and subdued or killed her, the other would have been gone. I think he likely would have fled as well once they did. opposed to chasing them both down, catching them each individually, killing them both separately, and then transporting two dead bodies all that way and across a creek in broad daylight. The logistics don't add up. Unfortunately had they run I think at least one of them would have survived.

    Given the scene it makes much more sense they followed his orders. He directed them off the bridge, down the hill, and deeper into the woods across the creek where they were found. I'm sure LE knows if it was a kidnapping attempt based on the recording.

    Ressler classified sexual murderers in two catagories. Organized and unorganized. The organized killer was in control of his actions. He planned the attacks out in detail. Where as the unorganized killer was not in control of his actions. Things were not well planned, he would come across a victim and his urges took over. Without knowing the details of these murders it's tough to say exactly what kind of classification BG would fall under. But given the circumstances we do know, that he murdered two girls and likely sexually assaulted one or both them in broad daylight in a very visible area, makes me think he was a disorganized killer at least in part. An organized killer likely would have abducted them from the scene and committed the assaults somewhere else. It was just blind luck that someone didn't see him doing this in the way he went about it. An unorganized killer would not be one to try and kidnap the girls. He would be unable to control himself from assaulting them right on the spot, which is what it appears he did.
     
  18. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Jmo, defintely sexual homicides :(
     
  19. BoggLed in Ohio

    BoggLed in Ohio Active Member

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    JMO I think he is an ORGANIZED killer and was prepared. Look at the lumpiness under his jacket, (even under what appears to be his hat) all bulging with mysterious stuff...some even say they see a gun outlined under his jacket (I can see what appears to be something too, probably a gun). I think he had all kinds of tools..a kill kit on him. I dont think he specifically stalked them out, targeted them. I think he prepared himself to kill any woman or women? he encountered that day that fit his "type" of victim. He laid in wait like a predator, filled with giddy excitement of what would come his way, then pounced. All JMO. I also think he is an organized killer because they tend to not get caught as much as unorganized ones.
     
  20. iscaremyself

    iscaremyself New Member

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    I'm talking family with criminal tendencies.. BG's brothers, cousins, father and so on.
     
  21. Sapere aude

    Sapere aude Former Member

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    Sorry, as my posting has had been one of the last in previous thread 59, I want to repeat my question. What I´m dealing with is, wether or not possible screams of the girls at the creek may or may not been heard by hikers on the trail at the same time, as acoustic noise from the creek in general could perhaps not reach the higher up situated trail.

    What do you think?

    Thank you for answers.
     
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