IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

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Jmo the only thing the girls saw that resulted in their murders was BG stalking them. This is not gangland Chicago in the 1920's with bad guys on every corner. Just smalltown IN on a weekday. Imo he just got "lucky" and happened upon victims. If he had arranged to meet them, LE would have traced the details by now, imo.

If this was a retaliatory hit, or anyone known to the family, it would be much easier to solve. The population of Delphi is 3000. And they don't get that much major crime. Delphi's crime rate is lower than Indiana's and the nation".

This is a nice article on the town after these tragic murders:

http://www.wthr.com/article/after-double-homicide-some-visit-delphi-trail-for-closure

https://www.tennessean.com/story/ne...ng-up-bridge-near-delphi-homicides/100325462/
 
Hi, Shiressleuth! In response to your post I'm going to put forth this as a possible scenario:

JMO...

He may have been walking the trails that day searching for a victim. They may have passed him on the trails on their way to the bridge, which IIRC, was their intended destination. While passing, he made a comment or given them a look, or just plain made them uncomfortable just by his presence. They thought nothing of it and continued to the bridge.

He stayed out of their line of vision for a while. Maybe he had already stashed a backpack on RL's land, either where he girls were found or in an outbuilding. Maybe he returned to his vehicle on the north side of the bridge (either in a parking area for the trails, near the cemetery or somewhere else nearby) for whatever was under his jacket, assuming he wasn't prowling with the bulk under his coat. He may have already had the bulk, and simply hung back, giving them a false sense of security. He may or may not have overheard them talking about the bridge when he first encountered them.

They kept walking toward the bridge, oblivious of the encounter they just had. Libby took the photo of the bridge. Then she took the one of Abby. Maybe there were more photos and videos before the bridge shot, after the Abby shot, and/or between those two. We know for sure there were at least two photos because they were uploaded to Snapchat.

Libby and Abby were at the south end of the bridge. Hanging out? Private girl talk about typical teenage topics? Rendezvous with a mysterious online "friend"? We don't know, other than they were at the south end of the bridge.

They saw someone coming from the north end of the bridge. As the figure approached, they realized it's the guy they saw on the trail who gave them the something-is-not-right feeling. They retreated to the end of the bridge so he could traverse the span, at which point they were prepared to start crossing the bridge as quickly as they could to get back to the trails and the parking area where they were to meet their ride home. Libby started filming on her selfie camera, making it appear that she was taking a photo of herself, but was really trying to get this guy's picture. Being nervous and afraid, she was trembling so the camera was shaking and the video wasn't clear and steady, and there were images of her and Abby in the frames too, which is why those photos are the only photos LE is releasing.

As he got nearer, Libby acted like she was done with her selfie and pocketed her phone while leaving it on "record". Before Abby and Libby could start across the bridge, BG corralled them by threatening them with a weapon, told them to go "down the hill", possibly grabbing one or the other by the arm or jacket (thereby leaving contact/touch DNA on at least one girl), made them walk to a shallower or narrower part of the creek, crossed with them, and forced them to the secluded area on RL's property where they are found.

He may have had weatherproof/waterproof clothes layered under his blue jacket and "dad jeans". He may have also had a second set of clothes in his stashed backpack.

LE has not released the times or locations where he was seen by witnesses. It may have all been on the trails before he encountered the girls on the bridge.

Was he there specifically to target Abby and/or Libby? I'm not sure about that.

He was there to commit a crime. He planned it. He scouted it. He prowled the trails. Unfortunately he succeeded in his quest.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he is also responsible for the Iowa cousins in 2012. So many coincidences between these two cases. It also could be totally random or a copycat.

That's my :twocents: anyway.

JMO.

That's pretty close to how I am thinking it went down, too. It's the only thing that makes sense to me, given the innocence of the girls, and no known motive for someone in their circle wanting to harm them.

Your post does make me wonder though. Perhaps the killer wasn't actively searching for a victim(s), but had the personality type when encountering a situation presenting itself to his advantage, went ahead with it.

The outbuildings in the area, the camp sites, all of that, are so important in looking for possible evidence and DNA.

Why was the BG there?
 
Considering the bodies were found later the next day (anyone know what time?)...they could have been placed there back after the crime....to appear that the crime happened closer.
I wouldn't think so.
Why would he?

Could he have used a little boat to row them back up the creek to drop off the bodies later that night?.
Why? Why on Earth???
MOO
 
Does anyone know how close the nearest outbuilding on R.L.'s property is to the site where the girls were found? I know I may have missed this discussion earlier on as I have not read every single post in every thread.
Could he have immediately forced them to go there where they would be secluded?
I recall reading somewhere that one witness mentioned being on the bridge almost immediately after the girls posted the snapchat pic and that she hadn't noticed seeing anyone in her travels other than a man and a couple....and then had turned back.
JMO but he forced these young ladies to an isolated spot nearby where his crimes (SA) could not been seen or heard. He may have even forced one girl to commit the final crime against the other where they were found so he could watch. Crap. I hated typing out all of that. I feel sick and shaky just imagining that it could have even remotely gone down that way.

All speculation and JMO.
 
That's pretty close to how I am thinking it went down, too. It's the only thing that makes sense to me, given the innocence of the girls, and no known motive for someone in their circle wanting to harm them.

Your post does make me wonder though. Perhaps the killer wasn't actively searching for a victim(s), but had the personality type when encountering a situation presenting itself to his advantage, went ahead with it.

The outbuildings in the area, the camp sites, all of that, are so important in looking for possible evidence and DNA.

Why was the BG there?
BBM

Why was the BG there?

Exactly. Why is this guy there to begin with?

The suspect couldn't know who would be on that trail that day. But he is there at a time when foot-traffic might be light. He might not know that kids had the day off, so maybe he went there at this time in case kids were there to hang out after school.

He didn't seem concerned at all about trespassing. Indiana is a stand-your-ground state. Property owners could be walking their own property that day. How is he so confident in not being caught?

The moment he heads to the girls, he is basically trapping them on the other side of that bridge. That bridge doesn't look that easy to bypass people on, and they couldn't get back to the main trail other than to cross back over at the creek, which is high at that spot, or to pass him on the bridge.

He found an easy egress, and if he had a vehicle, he was able to get to it and leave. He did have a lot of time, given that the girls weren't thought to be seriously missing until the next morning...but even so, he did manage to enter, murder and leave that trail, without anyone taking much notice until later.

Could he have been in that area in order to scope out the property behind the trail, and he just happened on the girls?

Or was he walking the trail looking for this type of victim?
 
Does anyone know how close the nearest outbuilding on R.L.'s property is to the site where the girls were found? I know I may have missed this discussion earlier on as I have not read every single post in every thread.
Could he have immediately forced them to go there where they would be secluded?
I recall reading somewhere that one witness mentioned being on the bridge almost immediately after the girls posted the snapchat pic and that she hadn't noticed seeing anyone in her travels other than a man and a couple....and then had turned back.
JMO but he forced these young ladies to an isolated spot nearby where his crimes (SA) could not been seen or heard. He may have even forced one girl to commit the final crime against the other where they were found so he could watch. Crap. I hated typing out all of that. I feel sick and shaky just imagining that it could have even remotely gone down that way.

All speculation and JMO.

I *think* this was a SA crime. I also think the crime happened fast, not long after the girls were forced down the hill, and under the bridge.

Prayers and positive thoughts justice will be served.
 
I wouldn't think so.
Why would he?


Why? Why on Earth???
MOO

There was a public road on the opposite side of the creek to where the girls were found, but the spot they were found in there is no way I saw on the google maps, where a vehicle could get directly to that place. I think it would be difficult to understand why a guy who has captured two victims and escaped detection, returns to the scene of the crime AFTER the girls are reported missing and there is a search active for them.

And then he has to park across the creek and a good distance from the place that he places them for the bodies to be found?

I can see this guy escaping in a vehicle he has parked somewhere. But its hard to figure why he would drive away and then return.
 
I think he saw the girls at some point, and did stalk them across the bridge.

Whether or not he went to the bridge area to stalk random females, I doubt, but am not sure. I think he was in already in the area beforehand, because of circumstances involving being homeless, or needing a friend to stay with. Perhaps he was mad about something or misinterpreted the actions of others.

Then he saw the girls and saw an opportunity.

Anyway, just another theory, but I do think it's sooo important to look at the transients in the area, where any may have stayed, and any evidence left behind. FWIW
 
Thanks DeDee for all the information on the SAR dogs you are 100% correct. At pushing 80 i tried to give a short explanation on the 1 dog trained.
 
This is questioning the obvious again. But why would someone intent on finding a victim choose that trail? Why not Indianapolis Moton Trail? Or some other part of the Delphi Historic Trail? Why there? Why at that time?

One thing that I've noticed on all the videos of this path, is that there was no place to hide in the brush. This guy couldn't hide, he would have had to keep walking, maybe retracing steps, to find a victim. He would have really been noticed if he'd tried to hide in the bare tree-scape.
 
I think he saw the girls at some point, and did stalk them across the bridge.

Whether or not he went to the bridge area to stalk random females, I doubt, but am not sure. I think he was in already in the area beforehand, because of circumstances involving being homeless, or needing a friend to stay with. Perhaps he was mad about something or misinterpreted the actions of others.

Then he saw the girls and saw an opportunity.

Anyway, just another theory, but I do think it's sooo important to look at the transients in the area, where any may have stayed, and any evidence left behind. FWIW

He might be transient, but then how does he get away? Bus? Hitchhiking? Mass Transportation isn't great in Delphi. He had time to get away,
 
He might be transient, but then how does he get away? Bus? Hitchhiking? Mass Transportation isn't great in Delphi. He had time to get away,

All I can think, given the longish period between when the girls were reported missing, when they were found, and before news outlets descended on Delphi, the guy may have been hanging around, watching it all unfold.

He may have walked away.
 
This is questioning the obvious again. But why would someone intent on finding a victim choose that trail? Why not Indianapolis Moton Trail? Or some other part of the Delphi Historic Trail? Why there? Why at that time?

It's a good question and probably holds the key to the whole case. We could theorize about all the tactical or logistical reasons he chose it as his hunting ground but in reality the reason could be something like, he once stalked another desirable victim there but he was unable to pull off the crime on that occasion. And so he is drawn back there again and again. It's difficult because we are here trying to apply normal logic to a deviant mind.
 
My FIL owns close to 400 acres in our small town - less than one hour away from Delphi. Anyway, the family "cleans" the acreage about four times per year. You can't believe the evidence that we find about drugs. We have called LE numerous times, but there is no evidence about who was responsible for the "meth lab".
 
All MOO!

Okay, I have one possible scenario which I don't believe includes any speculation. I'll say now that I'm including them recrossing the bridge simply because I can't wrap my head around them crossing through icy water when trying to escape quickly, and can't see him trying to control 2 girls while crossing it. I also can't imagine taking the girls somewhere else and then bringing them back to the place most likely to be swarming with people searching for them. I also believe it would make little to no sense making 2 trips to carry 2 bodies to that spot if they were killed anywhere other than where they were found. Obviously, I could be wrong about any of my beliefs, but I'm just looking for ways to explain the few facts we do know.

BG went to the trail and bridge because of the weather and probably some of his urges. He saw RL leaving when he got there, and he parked his vehicle in one of the buildings across the road. He wandered around checking out who was there, who came and went, and eventually planned out his attack and escape. He wasn't sure when he first got there if he'd be committing any assaults/murders so he didn't hide his face completely from everybody he passed. Once it became apparent that it wasn't extremely busy, he made more of an effort to be hidden/inconspicuous. When the girls came along, he watched them from a bit of a distance, possibly waiting for the last of the other visitors to leave. By that time, the girls were on the bridge and Libby was taking Abby's picture, and because Libby was facing that direction she noticed him heading toward the bridge.

The girls may have thought it was strange because they saw him before reaching the bridge and thought he was leaving, they may have also thought he was a bit odd because he had made an effort to hide his face from them when they passed. When BG started crossing the bridge, they headed to the opposite end, but he was gaining on them. When they got to the other side, Libby started the video to capture him, just in case. When he got a bit closer, they went to the first platform and waited for him to pass them and then headed back the other way (hoping to get back to the other end and run toward safety. When they got across, he immediately grabbed them each by an arm, and blocked the way back on the trail. They broke free and ran to the east since he was blocking the north, the bridge and/or creek would slow them down to the south, and there were farms and the cemetery to the east.

He caught up with the first one and knocked the wind out of her so she had to stop and catch her breath (and probably knocked her down too.) He caught the other one and dragged her back to where the first one was, grabbed her too, and brought them "down the hill" to where they were found. When he was done with the murders, he picked up whatever he could see that had been dropped, went through the trees to the east, behind RL's home and across the road to his vehicle. He could then drive off in the other direction, and possibly even come back later for the search
 
Thanks DeDee for all the information on the SAR dogs you are 100% correct. At pushing 80 i tried to give a short explanation on the 1 dog trained.

eyeofneedle, my favorite hat is tipped to you! Your helpful explanation and Jethro's question propelled me to post additional data for the forum. I fell into admiration with SAR and cadaver dogs during Madeleine McCann's case. One of the dogs hit a scent in the boot of the McCann's rented vehicle. The McCann's claimed it was from a purchased bag of chicken that leaked and not from the decomposition of their daughter's body.

With head bowed, thank you for your important SAR work. We need more people, such as yourself, who use trained K9s to help find our missing persons and clues to their whereabouts, as well as leading their handlers to potential important evidence.
 
I feel a little odd about posting this. I'm sorry for the length but I hope a good jumping off point for sleuthing. I asked a few days ago whether LE had clearly stated that this case was, to the best of their knowledge, unconnected to others. I decided to look up for myself what LE had said in official statements about it and (please correct me if there's something out there that contradicts this), I found that they skirted that question when it was posed. LE said they were "unaware" of any cases which appeared to be connected but then they qualified that by saying there were instances of individuals who had been found to have violated probation, etc, but nothing associated with these homicides. So it seems to me that they didn't directly address the question of whether there are other homicides out there that they believe are connected. Not that I think they could or should reveal their hand on that topic at this stage. So with that said, I went looking for other unsolved homicides and I found a possible one to discuss. There is a Parabon snapshot from this other case to compare with our newest composite sketch of BG, which I will attach to this post.

April Tinsley was an 8 year old girl who was abducted and murdered in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1988. There is a thread here on Websleuths devoted to her case and it has all the background info. In summary, she was abducted around 4 pm from a street in her neighborhood. Witnesses said they might have seen her being forced into a pickup truck. Three days later, her body was found in a ditch 20 miles northeast of Fort Wayne. She had been raped and suffocated. The case went cold but 2 years later the killer started to communicate with police. He wrote a message on a barn door (evidently returning to the scene over multiple days to re-write the message until it was dark enough to be seen). There were still no breaks in the case but in 2004 he started to communicate again. This time he left messages on little girls' bikes and in mailboxes around the Fort Wayne area. I won't go too far into the messages and the contents thereof but he left indisputable DNA evidence in them that he was the same person who raped April Tinsley. He also left Polaroid pictures of the lower half of his body against a distinctive bedspread. Despite all these clues, he has never been found and his DNA has never been matched to any database.

At a glance this case has several differences from the Delphi murders - younger victim, transported a distance from the abduction point. But Fort Wayne is only 95 miles away from Delphi, railroad tracks were in close proximity to both the crime scene and the place where the killer left taunting notes, and several things about the Parabon snapshot, generated in 2016, made me wonder.

According to Parabon, April Tinsley's killer had fair or very fair skin, hazel or green eyes (not blue), brown or black hair (note: not reddish brown as the Delphi sketch tells us, but remember he also sent Polaroids and the man in those is said to have "reddish tint" to his leg hair). His age estimate as of 2015 was 45-55 years old, though LE in that case urged people to consider someone a few years older or younger. I felt that the age-progressed Parabon snapshot may have failed to capture things like a goatee/facial hair, perhaps a past broken nose or the age effects of chronic alcohol use or sun damage to skin, but that there could be similarities to BG.

The time between a murder in 1988 and one in 2017 seems insurmountably long to me to consider this the work of the same perpetrator. However, I read in the FBI's official profile of April Tinsley's murderer that, contrary to the average person's belief that once an offender kidnaps, rapes and kills, he will always kidnap, rape and kill, in reality a sex offender can engage in a lot of different behaviors that satisfy their urges. These include peeping, indecent exposure, etc and often these go unreported by the victims so it flies under the radar of police. Gaps in activity can be explained by institutionalization, relocation, or, terrible to think about, ongoing access to a victim in their "normal" life.

What about the fact that a pedophile preferred an 8 year old victim in the first instance - why would he go after a 13 and 14 year old in a subsequent murder? I discovered, again in the FBI profile of April Tinsley's killer, that not all child sex offenders are the same and some will victimize adults or older children/teens situationally. I think - MOO here - that it has probably become relatively more difficult to abduct young children as parents are less likely to let them play outside unsupervised in the way they did in the 80s. However, pre-teens like Abby and Libby have more freedom to be alone or unsupervised in public. Therefore, perhaps a killer will evolve in his methods as time goes on and/or perhaps his fantasies change.

If LE in the Delphi case have the perpetrator's DNA, then obviously this is a dead-end. If they are still working on separating out all the DNA at the scene, or if the killer managed somehow to commit a sexual assault without leaving DNA (and assault can happen in more ways than rape, or attempts can be made to destroy evidence, so I guess it's theoretically possible), then...could the killer of April Tinsley and Libby and Abby be one and the same?
attachment.php

The only issue, which is a big one, is age. If the suspect in 1988 was suggested to be 45 to 50, let's take away a few years and say 40 years old in 1988, he would now be 69?? The POI in the Delphi case is assumed to be 40ish I believe?? That is an extreme age difference. But your post was great to read. ♡
 
He might be transient, but then how does he get away? Bus? Hitchhiking? Mass Transportation isn't great in Delphi. He had time to get away,

Mass transportation is not lacking in Delphi. It's a small town, but it has a large meat processing plant needing to move a huge product. It's located right on an interstate highway. Not to mention the frequent freight trains that run right through town. Here's a video of a train crossing a bridge over Deer Creek. It's upstream on the same creek where Libby and Abby were found.

[video=youtube;3TZmz_1agAE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TZmz_1agAE[/video]
 
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