IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67

[DarkSkink]

Hi Reacher- You ask Why? I believe BG was already aroused or became so seeing the girls, intended SA beneath bridge. Could still perform after icy creek??? (What say you all???) If not, frustration then lead to murderous rage? IDK. PS- Reacher, glad u r still here. I know you have expressed frustration at times. Understandable! PPS I DON'T think Stele (of the Orange porch light!) directed comments at you yesterday; Myself and a few others first thought MP's "simply" meant more than it likely did in our quiet desperation. PPPS I hate to admit this but going to OZ makes me think LE not close : / unless show will be used as a tool in some cryptic way. Such as airing it in a certain place to a certain audience? IDK! Thoughts about icy waters or OZ behind scenes intent?

Back to the icy waters... we still don't know how deep it was where they crossed. Apparently it was "Raging 70% above normal that day!", but if you do the math, 70% extra in the area that's running at 6 inches high normally, is an extra 4 inches of water. There are too many variables that go into creek volume and capacity.

If BG's urges were so strong as to make him travel to a remote area in order to hunt and subdue a victim, a 20 to 30 second crossing in some water isn't going to deter him. In fact, he had victims in his possession and was getting away with it. It's likely he got more and more excited as he got closer to his ultimate purpose.

 

[ezrah]

A couple of months ago I looked at wiki and there was some interesting facts about double child homicides. From memory there were about 40. So I would suggest starting there. It had them listed by decade IIRC. It was shortly before the thread closure.
Ps. That was how I came across the Sklya Whitaker/Taylor Placker case which has similarities imo.
Pps. Just google wiki child homicides usa and the list is available in the results.

I feel strongly the perp has killed before Abby and Libby's murder. Maybe not two at a time but no regard for human life nonetheless.

Kevin Joe Sweat was arrested in the Skyla/Taylor case in 2011 and was linked bc he had killed his fiancée prior. Shell casings linked the murders to him. He said he killed Skyla/ Taylor bc they looked like monsters to him.

 

[DarkSkink]

Has anyone done any research looking for double murders of young girls. Perhaps even single girls since that scenario is the more likely scenario. Maybe look for murders that took place on greenways or nature trails. Even missing persons cases of young pairs of girls would be relevant since those would likely be murdered but undiscovered. Another shared feature might be bridges. Elizabeth and Lyric's case happened in Seven Bridges and Abby and Libby's were of course at Monon High Bridge. If there are such cases I imagine they might date back to the 1990s. Just wondering if anyone had any research on this


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It's not just murders, it's sexual assaults as well. There is typically progression in the acts. This may not have been his first time assaulting victims along a hiking path, but perhaps the first time it progressed to killing the victim afterward.

Personally, I think it's a stretch to think that the victims have to come in pairs. It's possible, but unlikely he has to have 2 victims at the same time before he acts. How often can you come across that scenario?

I think the fact he took 2 victims this time hints at a brazen confidence that usually comes with experience. It was likely their age and size that led him to think he could control 2 people at once. It also might suggest how desperate he was for a victim at the time. Urges can override more and more of your rational thought the stronger they get.

You would think LE would compare any DNA profiles to all solved and unsolved assaults and murders right across the country. The lack of an arrest after this length of time hints that there has been no DNA match to any solved crimes.

 

[Shiressleuth]

It's not just murders, it's sexual assaults as well. There is typically progression in the acts. This may not have been his first time assaulting victims along a hiking path, but perhaps the first time it progressed to killing the victim afterward.

Personally, I think it's a stretch to think that the victims have to come in pairs. It's possible, but unlikely he has to have 2 victims at the same time before he acts. How often can you come across that scenario?

I think the fact he took 2 victims this time hints at a brazen confidence that usually comes with experience. It was likely their age and size that led him to think he could control 2 people at once. It also might suggest how desperate he was for a victim at the time. Urges can override more and more of your rational thought the stronger they get.

You would think LE would compare any DNA profiles to all solved and unsolved assaults and murders right across the country. The lack of an arrest after this length of time hints that there has been no DNA match to any solved crimes.

We don't know there was a SA on this case, or in the Iowa or Oklahoma double homicides for that matter. They do seem to be similar murders with motives unclear, thats for sure. :cow:

 

[Shiressleuth]

I will be more than confused (out of control?!) if there isn't a d-e-v-e-l-o-p-m-e-n-t soon. I would like to SHOUT it to you on WS what I'm thinking and gladly I would show you comparing pics re what I'm assuming. Unfortunately I'm not allowed - that makes me sick! Now I'm hoping the right people are reading here sporadically and will combine things (like "a laptop") with 2 emails I have sent already. Right people maybe police authorities or someone like that. :tantrum:

Well, I know of abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com .....!

I can't work this laptop reference out either. What can you tell us?

 

[deedee21]

Laptop? I'm confused



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Same here. Dont feel like the Lone Ranger. I dont get it.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I will be more than confused (out of control?!) if there isn't a d-e-v-e-l-o-p-m-e-n-t soon. I would like to SHOUT it to you on WS what I'm thinking and gladly I would show you comparing pics re what I'm assuming. Unfortunately I'm not allowed - that makes me sick! Now I'm hoping the right people are reading here sporadically and will combine things (like "a laptop") with 2 emails I have sent already. Right people maybe police authorities or someone like that. :tantrum:

Well, I know of abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com .....!

Ok I know who you mean now. The Virginia baseball shooter "spent hours on his laptop and was homeless". I thought of him too so can understand why, but it was pointed out to me that he would have been checked after that incident. His 2006 mugshot is eerily like what we could imagine to be BG.

 

[iscaremyself]

I hope it leads to further publicity. I know it's a good thing that the family will be on Dr. Oz but it needs to gain more traction... I know NG would have been on top of this story if she still had a show.... She was/is a pitbull for seeking justice for crimes against children....

nancy has a podcast http://www.crimeonline.com/podcast/

 

[BoltzmanBrain]

A couple of months ago I looked at wiki and there was some interesting facts about double child homicides. From memory there were about 40. So I would suggest starting there. It had them listed by decade IIRC. It was shortly before the thread closure.
Ps. That was how I came across the Sklya Whitaker/Taylor Placker case which has similarities imo.
Pps. Just google wiki child homicides usa and the list is available in the results.

Thanks Shiressleuth!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DarkSkink]

We don't know there was a SA on this case, or in the Iowa or Oklahoma double homicides for that matter. They do seem to be similar murders with motives unclear, thats for sure. :cow:

No, we don't officially know. However, the chances are very slim that the primary motive is anything but SA.

It's a middle aged male perp mixed with young female victims. The victims are accosted when alone in a secluded area, with the chance of witnesses almost nil.

<modsnip>

 

[Sillybilly]

This post lands at random.

Just a reminder that information from the scanner thread is not to be brought upstairs to these general discussion threads.

Not a peep !! What you read/hear in the scanner thread stays downstairs.

:wave:

 

[Steleheart]

I will be more than confused (out of control?!) if there isn't a d-e-v-e-l-o-p-m-e-n-t soon. I would like to SHOUT it to you on WS what I'm thinking and gladly I would show you comparing pics re what I'm assuming. Unfortunately I'm not allowed - that makes me sick! Now I'm hoping the right people are reading here sporadically and will combine things (like "a laptop") with 2 emails I have sent already. Right people maybe police authorities or someone like that. :tantrum:

Well, I know of abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com .....!

I can't work this laptop reference out either. What can you tell us?

Same here. Dont feel like the Lone Ranger. I dont get it.

Ok I know who you mean now. The Virginia baseball shooter "spent hours on his laptop and was homeless". I thought of him too so can understand why, but it was pointed out to me that he would have been checked after that incident. His 2006 mugshot is eerily like what we could imagine to be BG.

FromGermany - Pardon the confusion. Alluding to something you can't say is tip-toeing against TOS. ( actually against the Rules.)
But if you think this is something worthy of discussing you can ask a Mod to open it up as a case specific guideline.

However if you think you have something important to the case, please say nothing more and submit it to the tip line.

Thanks! :wave:

 

[Shiressleuth]

I feel strongly the perp has killed before Abby and Libby's murder. Maybe not two at a time but no regard for human life nonetheless.

Kevin Joe Sweat was arrested in the Skyla/Taylor case in 2011 and was linked bc he had killed his fiancée prior. Shell casings linked the murders to him. He said he killed Skyla/ Taylor bc they looked like monsters to him.

There was also some speculation that it was revenge for the death of KS brother and also later speculation about an accomplice. Two guns were also used in the killings IIRC.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It's not just murders, it's sexual assaults as well. There is typically progression in the acts. This may not have been his first time assaulting victims along a hiking path, but perhaps the first time it progressed to killing the victim afterward.

Personally, I think it's a stretch to think that the victims have to come in pairs. It's possible, but unlikely he has to have 2 victims at the same time before he acts. How often can you come across that scenario?

I think the fact he took 2 victims this time hints at a brazen confidence that usually comes with experience. It was likely their age and size that led him to think he could control 2 people at once. It also might suggest how desperate he was for a victim at the time. Urges can override more and more of your rational thought the stronger they get.


You would think LE would compare any DNA profiles to all solved and unsolved assaults and murders right across the country. The lack of an arrest after this length of time hints that there has been no DNA match to any solved crimes.

My theory is: female teenagers are hated by him and the more they are cheeky the more he hates. Two teenagers together are mostly always more confident and brazen than one teenager alone would be. Therefore his rage starts when he is going to cool down from trouble at his home (wife and teenagers) and then is stumbling over the similar "naughty" teenagers in a park/forest. Maybe, his rage escalates and being very sadistic (NOT sexually) til murderous seems unavoidable for him. Afterwards he returns to his nice home with wife and a/some teenagers and is able to behave normal and less aggressive. Mr. Normal Guy with normal life. - Without his park/forest/lake touring he would have murdered at home and wouldn't have got away with it for years. IMO MOO

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Hi Reacher- You ask Why? I believe BG was already aroused or became so seeing the girls, intended SA beneath bridge. Could still perform after icy creek??? (What say you all???) If not, frustration then lead to murderous rage? IDK. PS- Reacher, glad u r still here. I know you have expressed frustration at times. Understandable! . PPPS I hate to admit this but going to OZ makes me think LE not close : / unless show will be used as a tool in some cryptic way. Such as airing it in a certain place to a certain audience? IDK! Thoughts about icy waters or OZ behind scenes intent?

Well my thoughts icy waters, My first thoughts are I really don't think so, but then again you never know.
However if SA was the motivation the frustration could lead too rage

Also one thing bothers me if the motive was SA I would have thought there was lots of DNA and instead of a sketch they could possibly do one DNA photo fits mentioned earlier in this thread.

IMPO I still think he knew the area well

KR
Reacher

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Just Quick Break Down Thoughts.

All IMPO and armature sleuth

IMHO This guy is going somewhere for a reason in order to get somewhere else without being seen or recognised. Which means he knew the shortcuts across country and trails avoiding highways.


It would also mean he was hiding or at least wanted to minimise the opportunities of being seen, hence avoiding Public Highways


NowI look at his stance on the bridge again. His head is down , hands inpockets shoulders forward this is defensive and the way people hidethemselves from being facially recognised.


Ithink he knew or suspected the girls took a photo/video


Thisis the thing that enraged him, frightened him.


I keep listening to his voice in the audio clip and IMPO the voice appeared most of the following to me. Obviously LE have more than us the General Public

• It is calm
• It authoritative
• It is directive
• It is not in a panic
• It was decisive
• It is not out of breath or huffing or puffing

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]So in my scenario I now have a suspect that is trying to hide from being recognised (for what ever reason) by keeping off the road and going cross country. He knows or is aware of tracks and trails.[/FONT]


He has nerves of steel, self confident and self assured and is in to the self preservation scenario of not being recognised. He kills and shows no remorse.


He continues his journey and eventually gets to where he wants to be.


Somebody,somewhere must know this person. Who ever the culprit is I have IMHO decided they are an total and utter control freak, bully and only out of control when not in control of a given situation.


Those are my personal opinions and nothing more

KR
Reacher

 

[Yemelyan]

Well my thoughts icy waters, My first thoughts are I really don't think so, but then again you never know.
However if SA was the motivation the frustration could lead too rage

Also one thing bothers me if the motive was SA I would have thought there was lots of DNA and instead of a sketch they could possibly do one DNA photo fits mentioned earlier in this thread.

IMPO I still think he knew the area well

KR
Reacher

I hate to point this out, because all of us hope that SA in any form didn't happen to these girls. But don't forget that a sexually motivated offender may have interests/desires/goals that do not meet the legal definition of rape and may not leave DNA behind. For some of these individuals, it's sadism, not actual sexual congress, that's bound to sexual desire or completion. There is a subtype of pedophile (I'm not sure that the Delphi crime was specifically pedophilic but I think the point stands) called a "mysoped," these offenders experience sexual pleasure because of the torture and death of their victims. Their sexually motivated acts may not leave any DNA as they are expressing their urges not through rape but sexual mutilation, cannibalism, sexual use of objects, other bizarre paraphilias etc. I apologize for the graphic nature of this post but I think it bears pointing out that with young female victims and older male offender, the crime is typically overwhelming sexually motivated in some capacity. The Delphi crime might be the exception (and I honestly hope the girls did not have to experience any kind of SA before they died, it is horrible to contemplate). But when you try to find non-SA crimes against young girls/women you find that even without rape there is often sexually-directed violence that is a component of the crime.

 

[Barbie619]

I feel strongly the perp has killed before Abby and Libby's murder. Maybe not two at a time but no regard for human life nonetheless.

Kevin Joe Sweat was arrested in the Skyla/Taylor case in 2011 and was linked bc he had killed his fiancée prior. Shell casings linked the murders to him. He said he killed Skyla/ Taylor bc they looked like monsters to him.

I also believe BG is a criminal who has never been caught. You don't get to be in your 40's (which I believe he is) and suddenly start killing, not just one girl but two at one time. The odds of being a first time offender at this stage in his life is like who won the biggest lottery in the past year!

He slipped up this time because Libby had her video camera ready........... He's a really sick monster.

 

[majikbeans]

Rhode Island two 12-year-old girls have gone missing--one of them named Liberty.
Very eerie.
https://pl8pic.com/Kayleigh_Liberty
No thread here yet.

 

[Yemelyan]

Respectfully snipped by me...I'm trying to understand your theory as it applies to the following points.

Just Quick Break Down Thoughts.

All IMPO and armature sleuth

IMHO This guy is going somewhere for a reason in order to get somewhere else without being seen or recognised. Which means he knew the shortcuts across country and trails avoiding highways.


It would also mean he was hiding or at least wanted to minimise the opportunities of being seen, hence avoiding Public Highways

Ithink he knew or suspected the girls took a photo/video


Thisis the thing that enraged him, frightened him.


KR
Reacher

In your self-preservation theory, what do you think he was running from that it was so important that he not be seen at all? What could he have done that was so bad it was worth committing a double murder as well? There's no coming back from the cold-blooded murder of two young teens. It's definitely an extreme step to murder someone who's never seen you before and may or may not have a blurry photo of you. I say "never seen you before" because you said you thought he was moving cross country avoiding highways, etc., so I'm thinking in your scenario he's not a local?

My other question, perhaps my main question, is this: if the fact that the took a photo or video enrages him, why doesn't he simply demand/steal their phone? I'm inferring that your reasoning is that he's just an out of control person with rage issues in general. But there were other people who saw him (since LE tells us witnesses cooperated in making the sketch). One of them evidently looked at him closely enough to say that his eyes weren't blue! (I have my other thoughts about that, already contained in these threads.) He didn't kill the other observers for noticing and looking at him.

Please don't feel like I'm picking apart your theory, theorizing is what everyone is doing here to some degree. I'm just trying to understand why, if he's also self-confident and self-assured (in your words), he flies off the handle and takes these other extreme steps. Thanks for your thoughts!