Found Deceased IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[ezrah]

I agree that he is likely an unlucky at life type. Everyday I kind of expect for an arrest. Why? I guess because I expect his luck to run out. I’m not from Delphi, but I helped search on 2/14. I’ve checked the news everyday since hoping to see he’s screwed.

IMO

First let me say I’m so sorry for the trauma the search has caused you. I’m sure the outcome was a shock to all.

Do you have a feeling about if the girls crossed the creek on foot, transported away and returned, etc? There’s been so much discussion about this and I’ve changed my mind a few times. TIA


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[Peterpaul]

A lot of posters believe LE have DNA due to POI's being excluded.
If they have DNA, why don't they do a Parabon image from it? They can be incredibly accurate.

Yes, they used DNA Phenotyping successfully in a double murder case in North Carolina in 2015.

 

[mtnlites]

In addition to what Jerrod posted, this is an excerpt from the anniversary PC at the trail:

7:39 mark:
Supt Carter: In all of my career I don't ever remember having the photograph of the person we believe is responsible. I don't ever remember having the voice of a person that we think is responsible. Or having a sketch of the individual that we believe is responsible.
http://www.wlfi.com/content/news/LIVE-STREAM-EVENT--473948353.html
(BBM)

.

This quote right here solidifies, to me, the supposed "twist" that was referenced in the beginning. The fact that they have an actual photograph of the perp, from the victim no less, is something that's not often seen. The "twist" has been speculated on ad nauseam and I honestly believe that there's nothing more to it than what he is saying here. (I know we weren't talking about that right now, but this it reminded me of previous conversations on here.)

 

[cluciano63]

I don’t think LE has any real idea of height or age, really...astonishing, when you have his image.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yes, they used DNA Phenotyping successfully in a double murder case in North Carolina in 2015.

That's interesting. What case was that and is there a WS thread?

 

[StrangerThings]

I don’t think LE has any real idea of height or age, really...astonishing, when you have his image.

Yea, I just checked and they have his height between 5ft 6 in and 5 ft 10 in.. I They should be able to use the photography and use the distance of origin and at least come with in 2 in of accuracy. Perhaps they asked witnesses asmwell and each one say a different height.

Age is even more of a guess, based of voice and attire id say 40 to 60.

 

[Peterpaul]

Troy and Ladonna French

 

[kizzykat]

This is a cold case that was very recently in the news. Nearly 3 decades old and DNA phenotyping was used to create an image of the killer. I wonder why they haven't utilized this for the Delphi murders.

Caption: The first images shows what the killer likely looks like today. The second image is him at age 25, and the third is the sketch created in 1991.
https://patch.com/washington/across-wa/dna-technology-gives-cold-case-murder-suspect-new-face

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I don’t think LE has any real idea of height or age, really...astonishing, when you have his image.

The posters on the image thread were able to determine the height based on surrounding images. That was fairly easy to do.

The voice may very well be the tricky one to nail down for certain.

 

[first_light]

First let me say I’m so sorry for the trauma the search has caused you. I’m sure the outcome was a shock to all.

Do you have a feeling about if the girls crossed the creek on foot, transported away and returned, etc? There’s been so much discussion about this and I’ve changed my mind a few times. TIA


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The creek wasn’t high at that time, but the water had to be very cold, likely just above freezing. I have a hard time thinking it was part of BG’s plan to cross the creek for seclusion. IMO I think he lost control of them and the girls ran across the creek to escape towards the trail/ more people. That makes more sense to me than them being brought back to the area later that night as well. The whole thing is so confusing based on only what we know in the public.
I didn’t think the terrain was hard to search during the day on 2/14... not much undergrowth and things were pretty open. I would imagine searching the night of 2/13 was far more difficult in the dark.
I know there were dogs searching on 2/14 because I had taken my dog there. They asked me if she was a trained dog for the search party. I told them no, so I was directed to go with another group. They told me they were searching w LE and dogs near the bridge starting where the girls were last known to have been. I think everyone in my search party was expecting to find them injured or lost. My thought was if they were abducted they were not going to be anywhere near the creek.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.forensicmag.com/news/20...orth-carolina-double-murder-arrest-conviction

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...onna-French-45-murdered-Reidsville-4-Feb-2012

Troy and Ladonna French

Thanks I have found the thread and this looks interesting - whole thread is only two pages long. DNA took 8 months to come back from the state lab. :frown:

Eta. Have also added the link about Parabon.

 

[K.jill]

There were search warrants ussued in January, iirc.
Do we know if they were searching for a specific item(s) or were they warrants for dna?

 

[ezrah]

The creek wasn’t high at that time, but the water had to be very cold, likely just above freezing. I have a hard time thinking it was part of BG’s plan to cross the creek for seclusion. IMO I think he lost control of them and the girls ran across the creek to escape towards the trail/ more people. That makes more sense to me than them being brought back to the area later that night as well. The whole thing is so confusing based on only what we know in the public.
I didn’t think the terrain was hard to search during the day on 2/14... not much undergrowth and things were pretty open. I would imagine searching the night of 2/13 was far more difficult in the dark.
I know there were dogs searching on 2/14 because I had taken my dog there. They asked me if she was a trained dog for the search party. I told them no, so I was directed to go with another group. They told me they were searching w LE and dogs near the bridge starting where the girls were last known to have been. I think everyone in my search party was expecting to find them injured or lost. My thought was if they were abducted they were not going to be anywhere near the creek.

Thanks for your input. Your theory makes sense. That’s a good point about not expecting to find the girls in the area if abducted/ foul play. Is there any other info you could share with us as to how the search unfolded. Was it organized, how the groups were divided up etc. How were you and the others informed that the girls had been located? TIA


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[the_watcher]

There were search warrants ussued in January, iirc.
Do we know if they were searching for a specific item(s) or were they warrants for dna?

A specific hair bauble perhaps

 

[heartgoesout]

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Lisa_Ziegert

Another case with Phenotyping. Just for comparison of the pic vs the man.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?66748-MA-Lisa-Ziegert-24-Agawam-15-April-1992/page5

This is the WS thread. Apprehended in 2017 - 25 years after the crime.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Lisa_Ziegert

Another case with Phenotyping. Just for comparison of the pic vs the man.

 

[FrostedGlass]

There were search warrants ussued in January, iirc.
Do we know if they were searching for a specific item(s) or were they warrants for dna?

Do we know if those warrants were related to the murders? Are the ones you are talking about still public record?

I could never find anything related to the murders except for the subpoena connected to DN (which disappeared from public view very quickly) and the request to seal the autopsy.

 

[DavidC]

Right.

Why ask FBI and GBI to look at the case with new eyes if they knew who BG was?

Doesn't make sense to me.

I would tend to think, when asking another state to go over your evidence. Mass public appeals, television, huge reward and the want to spread bg's image all over the free world. Is a huge and logical indication. They have absolutely no idea who did this.

 

[Jabarn]

Right.

Why ask FBI and GBI to look at the case with new eyes if they knew who BG was?

Doesn't make sense to me.

All I can make of it they have a general idea of the type of killer who did it, just no direct links to anyone in particular.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I was asking Jethro what were the issues with the sketch that could get identification thrown out. Your quote has mixed mine and J's posts together so I am repeating my question for clarification.

Lets say LE actually arrests someone. Lets say that BG doesn't look like the sketch. Any defense attorney will demand the alleged witnesses that contributed to the sketch and might even arrange a lineup. The point is that a defense attorney could use the very same witnesses to claim there is someone else out there that is responsible and not their client. LE had better have DNA.

The other scenario is even if BG kind of, sort of, or mostly looks like the sketch however not all or only one of the alleged witnesses can pick him out of a lineup. The defense attorney is going to use that fact to argue someone else is responsible.

The issue isn't with finding BG or arresting someone when it comes to the sketch but when it comes to the prosecution and the only thing that puts BG at that scene is the witnesses and not things like DNA, fingerprints, or phone records. What defense attorney is not going to like a situation where the alleged witnesses might all be describing similar yet different individuals rather than one, let alone the person arrested.

Superintendent Carter should probably stop talking unless he is actually going to provide useful information. This case has been hobbled by LE not providing useful information and the media being compliant rather than pursuing the story and putting pressure on LE. If left to Indiana LE I have very little confidence in their ability to solve this case. I am glad they are having GBI look into it and I only hope that Indiana LE learns something from it.