IN - Amish Father Charged with Incest, Child Molestation

[Filly]

The Amish are not isolated.
I don't know why this perception keeps being stated.
They live in communities that are integrated with non Amish. They shop the same stores, own businesses, employed at businesses, run and attend public auctions of livestock and produce on weekly or daily basis. On a street there could be an Amish household, then a Baptist, then another Amish, then a Lutheran and on and on.
They mingle, talk, shop, help others just like the rest of us. How hard is this to understand? They have their own church practices as do other denominations of Christians. Again, no more isolated than a devout Episcopalian or Methodist.
I see little Amish children walking down the side of the road for great distances with no adult.

Panglossian I'll take responsibility for that word "isolation". No, the Amish are not physically isolated. Mostly because of economics. Yes, they do interact outside their confines as you said. I knew of Amish people that rented rides from "outsiders" to get to the store or an appointment. Yes, the word outsider is used. They have control over their interactions. From my own experience people from the Amish community won't readily chat. That's understandable. IMO they operate as separitists. Isolation was the wrong word then, but considering this young lady was raised to most likely not trust those outside of the community I'm thinking the poor girl felt real isolated. It's difficult enough to divulge that you are sexually abused, and then by your own father let alone being taught to keep your business in your own community. Again, I used the word isolation. It's not too difficult to understand, but you can auction and shop and sell produce and work with other people but still be isolated through controlled interaction. Just not physically.

 

[panglossian]

Panglossian I'll take responsibility for that word "isolation". No, the Amish are not physically isolated. Mostly because of economics. Yes, they do interact outside their confines as you said. I knew of Amish people that rented rides from "outsiders" to get to the store or an appointment. Yes, the word outsider is used. They have control over their interactions. From my own experience people from the Amish community won't readily chat. That's understandable. IMO they operate as separitists. Isolation was the wrong word then, but considering this young lady was raised to most likely not trust those outside of the community I'm thinking the poor girl felt real isolated. It's difficult enough to divulge that you are sexually abused, and then by your own father let alone being taught to keep your business in your own community. Again, I used the word isolation. It's not too difficult to understand, but you can auction and shop and sell produce and work with other people but still be isolated through controlled interaction. Just not physically.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get so intense on the subject, Filly.
I think the Jeff's case has given the impression that anyone with a strong religious group identity lives within a secluded compound.
I am thankful that that there is an end to the girls' misery because the neighbor listened and acted.

 

[golfmom]

The Amish are not isolated.
I don't know why this perception keeps being stated.
They live in communities that are integrated with non Amish. They shop the same stores, own businesses, employed at businesses, run and attend public auctions of livestock and produce on weekly or daily basis. On a street there could be an Amish household, then a Baptist, then another Amish, then a Lutheran and on and on.
They mingle, talk, shop, help others just like the rest of us. How hard is this to understand? They have their own church practices as do other denominations of Christians. Again, no more isolated than a devout Episcopalian or Methodist.
I see little Amish children walking down the side of the road for great distances with no adult.

I lived in an area with a large Amish community and agree with your observations.

As a young mother, I was grocery shopping at an Amish farm market. When all of a sudden it went dark in the store. I asked the woman if the electricity went out. :blushing: :blushing: :blushing: After she was done laughing at me, she explained that the sun went behind a cloud.

BTW, you haven't lived life until you've hand pitted a lug of cherries. I swear it doesn't look like that much until you actually have to touch each and every cherry by hand.

 

[panglossian]

I lived in an area with a large Amish community and agree with your observations.

As a young mother, I was grocery shopping at an Amish farm market. When all of a sudden it went dark in the store. I asked the woman if the electricity went out. :blushing: :blushing: :blushing: After she was done laughing at me, she explained that the sun went behind a cloud.

BTW, you haven't lived life until you've hand pitted a lug of cherries. I swear it doesn't look like that much until you actually have to touch each and every cherry by hand.

Then I've lived life, LOL and had the stain on my fingers to prove it, golfmom! But it was so worth it because you cannot buy cherries in a supermarket that make that good of a pie. Tedious back aching work, tho.

 

[golfmom]

Then I've lived life, LOL and had the stain on my fingers to prove it, golfmom! But it was so worth it because you cannot buy cherries in a supermarket that make that good of a pie. Tedious back aching work, tho.

I would give just about anything to be able to shop at that market again. The produce and dairy products were unbelievable. I've never found it's match.

One day, I stopped in to get some strawberries to make jam and asked the woman if the berries were fresh. Again, another STUPID question by me ... she calmly looked at me and said, "Yes, we picked them this morning." :doh:

Our last summer there, I put up so much stuff freezing and canning and then my husband's company said they were relocating us. I said over my dead body would I lose my freezer's worth of hard work. Somehow the accommodated us and everything made it fine to our new location.

 

[golfmom]

This is the lady that gave me such a hard time:

Photo is from Cooking from Quilt Country by Marcia Adams

 

[Filly]

Sorry, I didn't mean to get so intense on the subject, Filly.
I think the Jeff's case has given the impression that anyone with a strong religious group identity lives within a secluded compound.
I am thankful that that there is an end to the girls' misery because the neighbor listened and acted.

Oh that's alright, Panglossian. I understand. Nothing wrong about being passionate or intense. BTW, in Philly we have a place called The Reading Terminal Market. It's in Center City and probably maybe a little less of a quarter of it is occupied by the Amish. They come in about four days a week. Only thing I know is they don't smile. No doubt they do just not at the shoppers. LOL

 

[Pepper]

I have mentioned this problem with the Amish before, and pretty much been ignored. To learn more, please visit this site:

http://www.amishdeception.com/Home.htm

and this:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2365919&page=1

Yes, sexual abuse does exist. And no, it is not always handled by the courts. Often our law enforcement society leaves it up to the church to punish. The punishment is often shunning.

Sadly this is not an isolated incident. The difference between this problem in the Amish community and the FLDS is basically the Amish do not believe in polygamy and do not marry off underage children. However the Amish also do not expect brides to be virgins on their wedding night.

 

[hoppyfrog]

However the Amish also do not expect brides to be virgins on their wedding night.

I have never, ever heard this before. Could you give some sources or elaborate?

Hoppy

 

[Pepper]

I have never, ever heard this before. Could you give some sources or elaborate?

Hoppy

A couple of years ago I read David Yoder's book, "Amish Deception." The link is in my last post. Yoder speaks openly about the Amish view of sex and how most couples openly sleep together before the wedding. He also describes sexual abuse and how some of the men believe it is their fatherly duty to initiate their daughters sexually so they will be ready for their husbands. Yoder's book used to be entirely online, but now only excerpts are online and you must now purchase the book in either hard copy or download. It is excellent reading for anyone wanting to learn more about this religion and its practices. ETA: I believe he is using the profits for the benefit of abused Amish children.

Someone in this thread described the practice of rumspringa during which the 16 yr. olds are allowed complete freedom from the Amish practices including parties, drinking and often sex. This is also discussed in Yoder's book.

 

[Filly]

I have never, ever heard this before. Could you give some sources or elaborate?

Hoppy

Hoppy, A newspaper in Lancaster, PA did a four part series called "Silenced By Shame Hidden In Plain Sight". The paper is called "Intellegencer Journal". Here's a link, but I think you have to join to access the entire thing.http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-9226098.html

 

[Pepper]

http://www.nerve.com/dispatches/mckelvey/secretsandlies/

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.msp
The Gentle People

Impressed by their piety, courts have permitted the Amish to live outside the law. But in some places, the group's ethic of forgive and forget has produced a plague of incest—and let many perpetrators go unpunished.

 

[luthersmama]

I believe these types of abuses happen.

I hope that they are not the norm.

But everyone who looks at the Amish through rose-colored glasses needs an attitude adjustment. I mentioned this after the Nickel Mines shootings. THe Amish are human, with human flaws,some of which are exaggerated by their way of life. They may be no worse than the mainstream, but the idyllic notion that they are the pure salt of the earth and capable of no harm is not realistic.

I find their acceptance of "**** happens" to be very practical and comforting. However, they work their animals very hard and severely restrict the options open to the children, especially the girls.

 

[GlitchWizard]

I grew up around the Amish every summer of my young life. When I read the headline my first thought was... why THIS father and not most of them? Behind the barn sex education, even by brothers, is not as uncommon as our way of life would like to believe it should be.

 

[StealthTheory]

Those articles were so disturbing.

 

[deespoohbear]

I live a mile from where this man lives. As you can imagine, this is a pretty big topic in our county and community right now.

This group of Amish here in Adams county are one of the more conservative sects of Amish in the United States. This group of Amish doesn't allow enclosed buggies, which is pretty unique to this group.

Unfortunately, molestation happens in the Amish community. Is the rate higher in the Amish community than in other groups? I don't know. The Amish (at least around here) also have issues with drinking. The men can smoke like fiends too. I have seen some of the men not be very nice to their wives. They are not always the pious, devoted people they are potrayed to be in movies, TV, and books. Of course, there are those Amish people who are just like they are depicted: hardworking, pious, generous, kind, devoted to God and family, etc.

I think part of the big stink here is the fact that these girls came forward in October with this, and it took till April to get the formal charges filed. That is 6 months. We are not a huge, populous county. Probably 30,000 people, tops in the whole county. Not a huge crime mecca for sure. So why did it take the prosecutor so long to file charges? In the meantime, has the father been at home with all these kids while law enforcement and the prosecutor's office were making their case? If that is the case, our county prosecutor and Child Protective Services (CPS) are going to have some serious questions to answer. :furious:

You can count on the following though. If this man has 10 daughters, you can probably bet the farm that the 3 that came forward aren't the only ones who have been molested in that family.

 

[Pepper]

This group of Amish here in Adams county are one of the more conservative sects of Amish in the United States. This group of Amish doesn't allow enclosed buggies, which is pretty unique to this group.

Unfortunately, molestation happens in the Amish community. Is the rate higher in the Amish community than in other groups? I don't know. The Amish (at least around here) also have issues with drinking. The men can smoke like fiends too. I have seen some of the men not be very nice to their wives. They are not always the pious, devoted people they are potrayed to be in movies, TV, and books. Of course, there are those Amish people who are just like they are depicted: hardworking, pious, generous, kind, devoted to God and family, etc.

I think part of the big stink here is the fact that these girls came forward in October with this, and it took till April to get the formal charges filed. That is 6 months. We are not a huge, populous county. Probably 30,000 people, tops in the whole county. Not a huge crime mecca for sure. So why did it take the prosecutor so long to file charges? In the meantime, has the father been at home with all these kids while law enforcement and the prosecutor's office were making their case? If that is the case, our county prosecutor and Child Protective Services (CPS) are going to have some serious questions to answer. :furious:

You can count on the following though. If this man has 10 daughters, you can probably bet the farm that the 3 that came forward aren't the only ones who have been molested in that family.

I think that the Amish are easy to identify, much like the FLDS, because of their dress and their tendency to live separate from the rest of us. These two sects (while very different in theology) both appear to be very strict in their rules and expectations of their members. Because of their straight-laced reputation, it is all the more shocking to learn of sexual abuse, incest, and sexual permissiveness amongst such "pious" denominations.

I don't know if the abuse in the Amish society is greater than that in other mainstream Protestant sects, but the fact is that it does exist more frequently than we want to believe. And for some strange reason our law enforcement agencies tend to look the other way rather than aggressively pursue and prosecute the offenders. We must demand a change that would protect the children from this awful abuse and hold the perps accountable with prison time. :furious:

 

[LinasK]

I think that the Amish are easy to identify, much like the FLDS, because of their dress and their tendency to live separate from the rest of us. These two sects (while very different in theology) both appear to be very strict in their rules and expectations of their members. Because of their straight-laced reputation, it is all the more shocking to learn of sexual abuse, incest, and sexual permissiveness amongst such "pious" denominations.

I don't know if the abuse in the Amish society is greater than that in other mainstream Protestant sects, but the fact is that it does exist more frequently than we want to believe. And for some strange reason our law enforcement agencies tend to look the other way rather than aggressively pursue and prosecute the offenders. We must demand a change that would protect the children from this awful abuse and hold the perps accountable with prison time. :furious:

Agreed! Isn't it the ultimate in hypocrisy to preach "clean living" while you are molesting and abusing your own children???

 

[deespoohbear]

Agreed! Isn't it the ultimate in hypocrisy to preach "clean living" while you are molesting and abusing your own children???

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

If you want to see what the community of Berne looks like, try this link:

http://www.bernein.com/

 

[southcitymom]

I grew up around the Amish every summer of my young life. When I read the headline my first thought was... why THIS father and not most of them? Behind the barn sex education, even by brothers, is not as uncommon as our way of life would like to believe it should be.

This is so true, Glitch. I also think it is more likely to happen in smallish, insular communities.