IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2019 at 12:58 PM
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  2. Midwestmom2019

    Midwestmom2019 Well-Known Member

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    They were his get out of jail free card.
     
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  3. Midwestmom2019

    Midwestmom2019 Well-Known Member

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    He’s reckless about his health. Whatever he eats and drinks makes him a really big guy. And the seat belt would have made him uncomfortable. Maybe the seatbelts didn’t go around him. And if he had a small vehicle, gas saver, I could see him struggling to get a seat belt on him. Little cars seem designed for little people. Most big people I see driving a pickup, SUV, big canoes.
     
  4. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    I’m not saying Chloe was a runner as she was placed in danger and had no choice. :mad:
    Actually I wish she had the chance to run. :(

    BUT my son was a runner and I had to harness him everywhere I went, everywhere. You don’t see those harnesses anymore. Are they now unacceptable or considered cruel? It saved my son’s life a few times.
    A baby carrier would’ve been great 40 years ago.

    It might have saved Chloe from a fool decision.
    Revolving doors = both walking away alive.
     
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  5. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    I have an insight how the mind works under duress and what Chloe’s parents think and feel now will change over time.

    My brother drove over my mother.
    It was an stupid accident.

    From a fit healthy woman she’ll never walk again and is in high-care nursing home.
    He was so distressed, I had to shift my focus from my mum to thinking he might suicide. I stressed to him it wasn’t his fault and now he says it wasn’t his fault and seems not to care what happened but nearly 7 years later I’m so angry inside. I’m really angry that I miss my mum, I miss what could’ve been, my children are missing the woman she was and her active life was cut so short.

    Their feelings will shift to reality within time and possibly anger will set in.

    I tried to keep it brief.
     
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  6. lisette

    lisette Well-Known Member

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    I am so sorry this happened to your family. Have you had any counseling to help you deal with your anger? Did your brother get counseling?
     
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  7. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    @they'll get you :) sbm

    Not following the above bbm. Can anyone explain to help me understand?
    Feeling dense this a.m. TiA.
     
  8. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    I’m sorry, I think the term is sliding doors as in the Gwyneth Paltrow movie where a sliding door triggers a completely different turn of events.
     
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  9. Mert

    Mert Well-Known Member

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    I am very sorry to hear this tragic incident for your family, also. I hope you and your brother are able to find peace and the best to your mother. Very sad situation. I don’t blame you for feeling the loss or anger.
     
  10. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    Thank you for your kindness. Yes but maybe I’d better have another visit. ;)
     
  11. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    That’s my point about Chloe’s parents maybe not being able to grieve their loss because of grandma & grandpa’s mental health was of concern.
    But the day grandpa moves on and doesn’t think it was his fault or blatantly says it wasn’t his fault is the day that resentment sinks in because they’ll feel he doesn’t have that right.
    Just my experience and thoughts.
     
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  12. Mert

    Mert Well-Known Member

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    I agree or possibly even once all the attention goes away. I can imagine they’re still in shock.
     
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  13. WhatDidYouDo

    WhatDidYouDo Well-Known Member

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    I think there's always what the people say behind closed doors and then what they say publicly. I believe that wholeheartedly about the Anthony's for example. I also think/have witnessed myself that lawyers often go much further than the family ever would as they are trying to construct a certain narrative.

    Not to derail and bring up Cindy Anthony - but I think she knew in hear heart what happened to Caylee the day she cleaned that trunk. But she has done everything she possibly could to make sure no one ever catches her admitting that factoid.
     
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  14. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Negligent Homicide & Penalty Statutes in Puerto Rico

    § 4737. Negligent homicide
    Any person who causes the death of another through negligence shall incur a misdemeanor, but shall receive the penalty established for a fourth degree felony.*

    This may help understand the PR law. PR statute is in black; [facts of the case in green].
    § 4737. Negligent homicide
    Any person
    [G’father]
    who causes [loses hold of toddler]
    the death [impact on ground/dock]
    of another
    [Chloe]
    through negligence [holding toddler outside the window/on the window frame, at a height of ~115 feet over the ground/dock onto which she would fall, if he lost his grip of her]

    shall incur a misdemeanor, but shall receive the penalty established for a fourth degree felony.

    Same as above, adding {explanation in red}
    § 4737. Negligent homicide
    Any person [G’father]
    who causes [loses hold of toddler] {losing grip caused fall, then deadly impact}
    the death [impact on ground/dock] {impact on ground/dock caused the death}
    of another
    [Chloe]
    through negligence [holding toddler outside the window/on window frame, at a height of ~115 feet over the ground/ dock onto which she would fall, if he lost his grip of her] {<<< negligence, i.e., he should have known better than to hold toddler 115 feet off the ground/dock. He showed disregard for her life by holding her at that height. If he had kept her well inside the ship, held her, say, 2 (two) inches off the floor, not the same disregard for her life.}
    shall incur a misdemeanor,
    but shall receive the penalty established for a fourth degree felony.


    "§ 4694. Applicable penalties
    The penalties established for natural persons by this Code are established according to the classification of the degree of the offense for which the person was convicted, as follows:
    (e) Fourth degree felony. — Entails a punishment of imprisonment for a fixed term in natural years which shall not be less than six (6) months and one (1) day, nor more than three (3) years. In such case, the person may be considered for parole by the Parole Board upon having served fifty percent (50%) of the term of imprisonment imposed."
    bbm


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    * [ed: rest of this section 4737 re motor vehicular deaths is not app to case at hand.]
    When the death is caused while driving a motor vehicle with wanton disregard for the safety of others, or while aiming and shooting a firearm at an undefined target, the offender shall incur a third degree felony. When the death is caused while driving a motor vehicle under the influence of controlled substances or alcoholic beverages, as provided and defined in §§ 5001 et seq. of Title 9, known as the “Puerto Rico Vehicle and Traffic Act”, the offender shall incur a second degree felony.

    ^ Laws of Puerto Rico Annotated
    TITLE THIRTY-THREE Penal Code
    Subtitle 5 Penal Code of 2004—Special Provisions
    PART I. Crimes Against the Person
    Chapter 297. Crimes Against Life
    Subchapter I. Murder and Homicide
     
  15. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Puerto Rico Atty Gen Stmt, Oct 29

    "Mr. Anello, 51, “negligently exposed the child to the abyss through a window on the 11th floor of the cruise ship,” Dennise N. Longo Quiñones, the Puerto Rico attorney general, and other officials said in a statement. The child fell 115 feet off the cruise ship, called Freedom of the Seas."
    "On Monday, Judge Jimmy Sepulveda of the San Juan Investigation Court set bail at $80,000 for Mr. Anello, who was charged with one count of negligent homicide."


    ^ Grandfather Charged in Toddler’s Fatal Fall From Cruise Ship NY Times, Oct 29

    Has anyone read/heard other direct quotes from PR AG or "other officials" either before or since ^? TiA.
     
  16. Montrealaise

    Montrealaise Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps even sooner - grandpa has said he thought he was putting Chloe against a window which was closed, and her parents seem to believe him. What if they find out the truth, which is that he knew the window was open and placed the child through the window? I think their anger will be overwhelming.
     
  17. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Is blaming the cruise line for their daughter's death, a way of deflecting guilt, for letting the Grandfather "watch" Chloe?
     
  18. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Chloe's Parents & PR Justice Dept, Quotes from Daily Mail, July 11 &12

    (1)" The couple had met with Justice Department officials on Tuesday and similarly refused to give witness statements, claiming they were on a different part of the ship when Chloe fell and didn't see anything...."
    ^ By parents saying ^ seems imo like they made stmts to LE/Justice Dept. JD can say that's not a 'witness stmt' but regardless it is evidence, could be used at SA's trial imo.
    If for ex, a vid surfaces, showing both parents a few feet from SA and Chloe & facing them a few seconds or minute before the fall, well, then, um, uh, yasee, well, er.
    If that was to happen, pretty strong evd of the lack of credibility of parents.
    Ditto, if a passenger made stmt to same effect - parents were a few steps away. Parents' cred? Low.
    For ship board employee saying same, but may be viewed w suspicion of possible bias.

    (2) "DailyMail.com can reveal they were also then given the opportunity to view a 'high quality' video of their daughter's final moments captured from an onboard camera - but were too distraught to watch."
    ^ By parents saying ^ also making a stmt. A totally understandable one.

    (3) 'The family were asked to come to the Justice Department to talk about what happened but they decided not to since their lawyer had told them not to,' said Justice Department spokesman Kelvin Carrasco."
    Also making a statement of sorts.
    I'm not criticizing them from a legal angle, for exercising right to silence.


    (4) '" The investigation is going to keep going. Maybe they will be asked to come again.'
    "The Weigands have retained criminal attorneys in San Juan who have thus far declined to speak to the media."
    bbm
    ^ imo, clearly had not ruled out charging parents, at least at that time. Still possible, but I'm not saying likely.
    all jmo.
    ^from https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...falling-arms-cruise-ship-arrives-Chicago.html pub date July 11 & 12
     
  19. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    The parents can’t be held responsible if they were on a different part of the ship.
     
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  20. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Could they be held responsible for leaving Chloe with someone who wasn't capable of tending her? Maybe there is more here.
     

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