IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. Stinalyn

    Stinalyn Well-Known Member

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    With regards to the smoking area on Freedom of the Seas, everything I've read, from recent cruisers, and from RCCL official info for passengers is that smoking is allowed on Deck 11 on the starboard side of the ship.
    Was it determined which side of the ship Chloe fell from?
    Grandpa could have been in a smoking area.
    NOT saying this means he was smoking but I guess it hasn't been determined one way or another and it is possible he was in a smoking area.
    Some people on other threads were trying to determine which side of the ship Chloe fell from based on the fact that the ship was in port. But we don't know which way the ship was facing so it isn't possible to determine that based *solely* on the fact that the ship was in port -- it still could have had either port or starboard closest to the dock. (I hope that makes sense).
     
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  2. Stinalyn

    Stinalyn Well-Known Member

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    I found this interesting:
    Apparently, according to the Naples Daily News from July 8, 2019, the grandfather admitted he held Chloe outside the window before she fell ~
    "Police Sgt. Nelson Sotelo told The Associated Press that the girl's grandfather, identified as Salvatore Anello of Valparaiso, Indiana, told officers he lost his grip while holding her outside a window on the 11th story of Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas while it was still docked in San Juan, police said Monday. According to deck plans, the 11th floor is home to the pool area, restaurants and the spa."
     
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  3. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    Can you post the link to this please? I’d like to update the media thread
    Thanks
     
  4. Stinalyn

    Stinalyn Well-Known Member

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  5. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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  6. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the footage in the video at this link, I think the ship was docked with the port side closest to the dock.

    z3.JPG z2.JPG z1.JPG

    Attorney of family whose child fell from cruise ship says grandfather didn't drop toddler
     
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  7. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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  8. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    He was beyond negligent when he held that baby up to and out of the window.
    What he did is basically the same as “playfully” pointing a loaded gun at someone and pulling the trigger, then stating afterwards he didn’t know it was loaded.... and blames it on the gun. At least that's how I see it.

    He needs to stop blaming the boat.
     
  9. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    Such a tragedy :(

    The Ovation of the Seas cruise ship is generally filled with Aussie and New Zealand passengers cruising the most beautiful areas all around New Zealand.
    White Island is a popular spot for all kinds of tourists to visit for a few hours.
    The losses are very tragic ... and it is fortunate that more people were not on the island at the time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  10. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Not sure it will matter much what the early reports say.

    The video, as described by all the reporters who have now seen it, does not show him holding Chloe outside. They only say the two of them appear to be looking out and then she "disappears".
     
  11. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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    Something in that video led to charges being filed. Considering the tragedy I feel there must be compelling evidence that he was reckless or negligent.

    Thousands and thousands of cruise passengers and a baby has never fallen out of a window and died. It is not the fault of the boat.
     
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  12. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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    On Twi tt er some of the cruise passengers have posted video from the boat, saying they had been at the crater just 20 minutes before the eruption. They stated that some passengers from their cruise were still on the island and unaccounted for.
     
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  13. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure they have been given the entire video IMO
     
  14. BetteDavisEyes

    BetteDavisEyes All the boys think she's a spy...

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    Motion to suppress would presumably come from the Defense. At this juncture, they are claiming that the video clearly exonerates SA. If that's the case, the Defense should definitely want the jury to see the video. The Prosecution's case, at least in part, is based on what is seen in the video, so they will argue profusely that it be shown to the jury.
     
  15. sl222

    sl222 Well-Known Member

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    .
    I totally agree with you on this. I believe this is exactly why the charges are filed.
     
  16. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Chloe's Fall & Awning?
    @SouthAussie :) Thanks for pix.
    [​IMG]

    Ppl posted (sorry, no link) about Chloe hitting an 'awning' before landing on dock.
    3rd/right pic shows a large, off-white, L-shaped, enclosed gangway (terminology?), positioned where something dropped off a certain area - outermost from H2O Zone - would hit the gangway roof ('awning') before landing on dock. So Chloe fell there? Or maybe I'm mis-interp'ing pic and events.


    And yes,@SouthAussie, in 3rd/right pic, water is on far side of ship, so, agreeing w you, port side is at dock in this pic. IIRC, a smoking area is on port side.
     
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  17. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    The press has the entire video.
    They describe the entire incident even noting that Chloe's brother was the first family member to get to the scene ect...

    And yes of course they pressed charges because he clearly knew the window was open when he held her up over the safety rail so she could get a good look outside. Uhg.

    Thats why he picked that window out of all the unopened ones. He wasn't magically led there by evil forces. He looks out the window alone before he picks up baby and shows her the view.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  18. SandyQLS

    SandyQLS may your life be filled with acorns

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    So perhaps his perception was in fact that there was a glass window there, and he lost his grip because there was an unexpected void. Regardless, the incident is an accident IMO. To criminalize it is about money, not justice.
     
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  19. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Grandfather cries as he recounts toddler falling to her death from a cruise ship - CNN

    "CBS said Winkleman showed its reporters video of the incident."

    "The video shown to us was not in real time," correspondent David Begnaud said. The family attorney "says the video that he showed us was the same format he received from prosecutors," Begnaud added.

    Noting a discrepancy in how long Anello was holding Chloe, Begnaud said, "the grandfather actually looks out the window for about eight seconds. He reaches down, he picks Chloe up, and he holds her over the railing for nearly 25 seconds."

    In a statement to CBS News, Winkleman said, "any variation in time likely has to do with software issues. Most importantly, whether it was 5, 10, or 30 seconds does nothing to change the fact that Sam reasonably believed the window was closed."
     
  20. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Criminalizing, about $$$?

    @SandyQLS :)
    Sorry, not following ^ bbm concept.
    W criminal prosecution, who benefits, other than atty rep'ing G'pa, as he is paid for work he performs?
     
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