IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

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THE Window. Which One?
It's been difficult for me (to try:confused:) to figure out THE window from which Chloe was dropped. One pic* of Squeeze bar gives decent perspective of windows, starting at right 1/3 of image (which is to viewer's right of Squeeze bar) & continuing toward (but not including) 'prison bar' window column.
In the pic, yellow tape measure on floor points to the fourth column of windows,
Page 75 states "H20 ZONE IS 43.33 FEET FROM SUBJECT WINDOW."


Does anyone think this is THE window, w yellow tape measure pointing at it? If not, why not?
Also, if not, can you pls link a pic you believe shows THE window? TiA.

----------------------------------------------------
* Pic on page 76 of Wiegand Motion to Dismiss. Sorry I could not paste pic here.
Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 3.pdf
I do believe there are ”smoke and mirrors” here. @WiseGuy made a wonderful post regarding this. I spent a fair amount of time studying the photos and line drawings. What I found was that I felt disoriented from studying the photos. My parents are very detailed oriented. A PROPER sequence of photos would leave the viewer with no doubt as to what was shown and the specific window in question. So...huge red flag vote from me.
And why soooo many photos of the maintenance hatch? Smoke and mirrors....
 
I’m in my 40’s, I should just lie down and let death take me.
Oh, no, dear! When one is in the late 50’s age range *cough, cough* it is the absolutely most liberating thing to realize life’s becoming all too shorter and to start calling things out as you see them. Perhaps and I hope you are wiser at a younger age than I was. But once the veil is lifted, there is no going back. Me...I like this chapter and season of my life.
 
I’m in my 40’s, I should just lie down and let death take me.
Lol, they promote their propoganda as always... according to them, a 51 y/o man is a geriatric man barely able to even walk... perhaps almost bed bound.

But isn’t it strange how this elderly“ feeble old man ” found the strength to lift this trusting baby up and over the railing , outside the window to drop her to her death?

I don’t know about you, but IMO, what he did wasn’t all that easy... what he did took a great deal of effort... and determination. Especially for such a a “feeble old grandfather”.

The big question is, why did he do it?
 
Lol, they promote their propoganda as always... according to them, a 51 y/o man is a geriatric man barely able to even walk... perhaps almost bed bound.

But isn’t it strange how this elderly“ feeble old man ” found the strength to lift this trusting baby up and over the railing , outside the window to drop her to her death?

I don’t know about you, but IMO, what he did wasn’t all that easy... what he did took a great deal of strength and determination. Especially for such a a “feeble old grandfather”. Question is, why did he do it?

May it please be emphasized that lifting Chloe from the floor to the guardrail was ONE motion?
 
Observing Danger. What to Say?
I posted my experience ....I was on deck 12 (fully open with railing - no windows) .... 2 year old little girl ....very windy as the ship was moving - ....I was going to approach them and tell them how dangerous it could be had she turned around and slipped over the railing ....
@oviedo :) sbm bbm Glad those peeps sorted it, before the child was hurt.
In these situations it's hard to think of a good approach, what to say. Ideas, anyone?
 
Oh, no, dear! When one is in the late 50’s age range *cough, cough* it is the absolutely most liberating thing to realize life’s becoming all too shorter and to start calling things out as you see them. Perhaps and I hope you are wiser at a younger age than I was. But once the veil is lifted, there is no going back. Me...I like this chapter and season of my life.
I don’t know, who wants to live to be a wizened 51 year old, barely able to keep their faculties together? SA probably has to wear adult diapers and gum his puréed applesauce. Hee. :p
 
If they regret it now they would dismiss the civil lawsuit. They want the money. No matter who they have to trample over.

Would the travel insurance halt any payouts if there were suspicious circumstances now that gramps has been charged?
I’m not sure how that would work if wasn’t an accidental death.
 
I think all of us on chloe’s thread would intervene knowing what we know now - I will say I felt reluctant for about a second and then the wind blew her dress up and I had no doubt I would move fast - the wind is so strong I cannot describe it adequately which makes his actions of holding her in that wind for 34 seconds all the more horrifying
JMO

oviedo was the child sitting on a railing? What parent does that!?
 
S.A. told the medical doctor onboard the ship when it happened... “I dropped my baby”. When something traumatic happens, usually the first words are the real deal. He knows what he did.

While S.A. doesn’t make decisions for the parents, what started as “Just fix the boat”, has become a money grab. Imho he was just stupid that day and it’s unclear if he’d ever been asked to be fully responsible for her before.

He couldn’t take the plea deal or it ruined the parents claim against rccl, therefore if he goes to prison it’s really the weigands fault, a verbal plea was offered with no jail time but that didn’t work for everyone... the whole thing’s on fire at this point with both a criminal and civil case so somebody’s going to “pay” when it all could have gone away quietly...

MOO
 

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There’s no accounting of where KW, AW, the son, and 3 other grandparents were.

I did find the Cruise Compass for 7/7/19 departure day. I wanted to see if muster drill was at 4, it was not. There was a info session for st marten at 4 though.

These images came from cruise critic.
Freedom of the Seas Cruise Compasses (July 7th Sailing)

I’ll post the remainder next thanks for letting me know
 

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Travel Insurance w Accidental Death Coverage? Other Ins?
Some posters questioned whether parents had travel ins and/or life insurance on Chloe.

I checked a travel ins website* for multiple quotes (several co's, 9 different policies) for coverage for med care and for accidental death & dismemberment insurance, as a package for two adults & 2 children. The fixed death benefit per person in group was either $25,000 (4 policies) or $50,000 (2 other policies). For the other 3 policies, death benefits were age-bracketed, under 10 y/o, either $5,000 or $10,000. May or may not be representative of travel ins policy benefits for AD&D.
If there is/was a $100,000+ benefit (as was rumored) for life ins on Chloe, imo, unlikely it would be thru a travel ins AD&D policy like those above.
It's also possible KSW and/or AW's employment may have provided some life ins coverage for Chloe, either as part of an employer-paid benefit of group life ins on either of them, but likely not $100,000 benefit for a minor child imo. Could be higher $ benefit (higher than employer-paid basic $) w employee-paid premiums.
And there could be individually purchased life ins policy.
Or maybe no life ins coverage on Chloe.

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https://www.****************/insuring-your-trip/

(Mods. I did not intend to use inapprop link or violate ToS, Just used it to show where I checked)
 
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Here’s the remaining 3 pages from cruise day.
 

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There’s no accounting of where KW, AW, the son, and 3 other grandparents were.

I did find the Cruise Compass for 7/7/19 departure day. I wanted to see if muster drill was at 4, it was not. There was a info session for st marten at 4 though.

These images came from cruise critic.
Freedom of the Seas Cruise Compasses (July 7th Sailing)

I’ll post the remainder next thanks for letting me know

JULY 8, 2019 / 7:47 PM
According to the Seascanner website, the Freedom of the Seas eventually left San Juan on Sunday evening at 8:30 p.m. local time with about 3,600 passengers. It was beginning a seven-day cruise around the Caribbean islands and was next scheduled to dock at St. Maarten, a Dutch territory, later Monday morning
Indiana police officer's 1-year-old daughter dies in fall from Freedom of the Seas cruise ship
 
Travel Insurance w Accidental Death Coverage? Other Ins?
Some posters questioned whether parents had travel ins and/or life insurance on Chloe.

I checked a travel ins website* for multiple quotes (several co's, 9 different policies) for coverage for med care and for accidental death & dismemberment insurance, as a package for two adults & 2 children. The fixed death benefit per person in group was either $25,000 (4 policies) or $50,000 (2 other policies). For the other 3 policies, death benefits were age-bracketed, under 10 y/o, either $5,000 or $10,000. May or may not be representative of travel ins policy benefits for AD&D.
If there is/was a $100,000+ benefit (as was rumored) for life ins on Chloe, imo, unlikely it would be thru a travel ins AD&D policy like those above.
It's also possible KSW and/or AW's employment may have provided some life ins coverage for Chloe, either as part of an employer-paid benefit of group life ins on either of them, but likely not $100,000 benefit for a minor child imo. Could be higher $ benefit (higher than employer-paid basic $) w employee-paid premiums.
And there could be individually purchased life ins

not much when you’re under 2 years old in employer or individual markets, generally 10k to 50k max. Insurers don’t like this age group due to unknowns like sids, cancers and illness with high morality rates. It’sa basic death benefit to defray funeral and medical expenses. There isn’t much there ...once they hit 2 yo, then you can get higher coverage
And of course rules vary by state country and insurer so this is how it is most of the time and life is full of exceptions , esp high profile people like celebrities etc....

..& this is all IMHO (I’m licensed & in sales)

I think that’s why they decided to sue, there’s really no big payout coming on any life policy....
 
S.A. told the medical doctor onboard the ship when it happened... “I dropped my baby”. When something traumatic happens, usually the first words are the real deal. He knows what he did.

While S.A. doesn’t make decisions for the parents, what started as “Just fix the boat”, has become a money grab. Imho he was just stupid that day and it’s unclear if he’d ever been asked to be fully responsible for her before.

He couldn’t take the plea deal or it ruined the parents claim against rccl, therefore if he goes to prison it’s really the weigands fault, a verbal plea was offered with no jail time but that didn’t work for everyone... the whole thing’s on fire at this point with both a criminal and civil case so somebody’s going to “pay” when it all could have gone away quietly...

MOO
Apparently, some of his first words were also he thought it was glass. Not sure if first words are real deal or not. But yes, the money claim by the grieving couple has made it more complicated for him now!
 
THE Window. Which One?
It's been difficult for me (to try:confused:) to figure out THE window from which Chloe was dropped. One pic* of Squeeze bar gives decent perspective of windows, starting at right 1/3 of image (which is to viewer's right of Squeeze bar) & continuing toward (but not including) 'prison bar' window column.
In the pic, yellow tape measure on floor points to the fourth column of windows,
Page 75 states "H20 ZONE IS 43.33 FEET FROM SUBJECT WINDOW."


Does anyone think this is THE window, w yellow tape measure pointing at it? If not, why not?
Also, if not, can you pls link a pic you believe shows THE window? TiA.

----------------------------------------------------
* Pic on page 76 of Wiegand Motion to Dismiss. Sorry I could not paste pic here.
Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 3.pdf
Yes, looking at this again, it does appear to be the window. See second photo page 74 where the window is identified and its position relative to the barstools around the bar. I missed that yesterday.
I went back and looked at the video in post #592 again, and it appears SA walks directly next to those barstools around the bar.
IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

One thing I noted yesterday but forgot to mention is that the line drawing does not reflect what appears to be a wider internal turquoise framing for the movable windows. See page 86 for a good example.

Also referencing page 74 again and also page 76 what stands out to me is the open window two columns to the left of specific window. The window to its left is effectively doubled tinted making the contrast of open vs closed even more apparent. This has probably been discussed previously but really stood out.
 
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We received this today from Royal Carribean regarding our upcoming trip.

Dear Guest,

We’re looking forward to welcoming you aboard! Before you embark on our adventure, we have some important information to share with you.

After consultation with medical experts and public health authorities, we’ve decided that regardless of nationality, any guest or crewmember traveling from, to, or through mainland China or Hong Kong less than 15 days prior to their sailing will be unable to board any of our ships. We regret to have to do this, but due to the recent increase of coronavirus cases around the world, this precaution will help avoid the spread of this virus. We take this very seriously and have a responsibility to maintain a safe and healthy environment onboard our ships, as well as in the ports we visit. We take this very seriously and have a responsibility to maintain a safe and healthy environment onboard our ships, as well as in the ports we visit.

Additionally, we’ve tightened our secondary health screening requirements and the following guests will need to undergo extra screenings to ensure safety at the cruise terminal:

  • Guests or crewmembers that have been in contact with individuals that have traveled from, to, or through mainland China or Hong Kong in the last 15 days.
  • Anyone that holds a Chinese or Hong Kong passport – regardless of when they were there last.
  • Anyone that feels unwell or demonstrates flu-like symptoms.
While these measures are conservative, our responsibility is to reduce the spread of coronavirus, in an effort to keep our ships safe and to ensure you are able to enjoy your time with us.

Your vacation and your health are very important to us, so in an abundance of caution, we’ve taken numerous proactive steps to maintain high health standards onboard our ships. This includes:

  • Thoroughly sanitizing the cruise ship terminal before and after every sailing,
  • Special sanitizing of high traffic areas onboard multiple times a day,
  • Adding extra medical staff on each sailing,
  • Providing complimentary consultations with medical experts for all guests & crew,
  • Plus, the Captain will make two daily announcements during your cruise reminding everyone of how to stay healthy onboard.
And, you can do your part too! To ensure we all have an enjoyable cruise, here are some important tips to help keep you healthy and prevent colds, flus, and stomach viruses – both onboard and on land.

  • After using the bathroom and before any meal or snack (it’s a cruise; we know there’s lots of that), make sure to wash your hands thoroughly with soap and warm water for at least 20 seconds.
  • If you happen to sneeze, cover your nose and mouth with a tissue (or with your upper sleeve). Avoid sneezing or coughing into your hands or without covering your nose and mouth.
  • Use hand sanitizer as often as possible. Rub the gel thoroughly, and in-between your fingers, until your hands are dry.
And remember, if you don’t feel well while you’re onboard, it’s imperative that you immediately visit our medical facility on Deck 2 for a complimentary checkup. Our onboard doctors and nurses are always ready to assist. Your safety and wellbeing are always our top priorities, but we also want you to have an amazing time. Stay clean, stay healthy, stay happy!

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Sincerely,
 
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