Found Deceased IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by tlcya, Apr 28, 2017.

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  1. No it's not

    No it's not that simple

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    I posted this before GH's video. Once I saw the Daily Mail image, it darned to me how zoomed-in the bridge can look with an almost deceiving view on distances.

    It was even suggested it may be another bridge. After a poster had taken an image of the SE end of the bridge showing the red barricade with the yellow tape, we understood, that there was a red barricade on the NE as well as at the SE end of the bridge. The Daily Mail image was indeed our bridge.

    I estimated the POI/BG height and placed him in this approximate location first considering there were 2 white spots on the side rail. That position would have placed Libby on either the last platform or slightly off the bridge. If Abby had been taken the shot from the platform, I would have expected the image to be less pixelated. But then I am not familiar to how good or bad of a quality her cell phone (what kind?) video would be. Then GH published his video of the first suggested location ( he corrected the location afterwards and published a new video).

    I went back to Abby's picture on the bridge and measured the width of the bridge walkway based on Abby's known height (ISP poster) of 5'4":

    [​IMG]

    That was almost supported by this image and the known gauge standard. But I was 2" off, which could be caused by the way Abby had her hair up making it difficult to get an exact point.

    [​IMG]

    I considered GH's video and measured the height of the POI/BG based on the above measurements, which got me to about 5'9" to 6' allowing for +/- 2inches of faulty readings (Abby's hair). Trying to re-establish a vanishing point in the ISP image and visually trying to fit the POI/BG in on the bridge utilizing the same video of the bridge as GH also let to approximately the same result while leaning towards the shorter end of the previous measurement of 5'9" to possibly only 5'7".

    [​IMG]

    Then GH corrected the POI/BG position and placed him close to being in the vicinity of the last platform, which would place Libby definitely off the bridge and possibly on the part of the land, that is a bit higher than the bridge itself IMO. Well, considering that new location from GH's video and trying to measure I am off by at least a foot. So, either Libby had an optical zoom on her cell phone camera and that may contribute to the discrepancy, but then why am I in agreement with the first reading and the optical fit-in re-scaling method as opposed to the second reading?

    It is therefore possible, that the POI/BG has a height of either 5'7" or even less than that. However, considering that the side rails RRTs are 4 inches tall ( a member went out and measured them) and that the width of the walkway is between 78" and 80" and that the visual re-scaling and actual measuring all put him at about the above measurements, I am tending to say, that GH's final positioning of the POI/BG may be correct, but that a possible optical zoom (not digital) makes it more difficult to establish final height.

    Why LE has not published an approximate height and weight estimation is beyond me. They could have remeasured and recreated based on Libby's phone/zoom ( if applicable) and we could have excluded a vast majority of suspects.

    All IMO

    -Nin

    Sources:
    Daily Mail
    Landmarks.org
    Gray Hughes
     

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  2. michael.gartley

    michael.gartley Verified Expert in Imaging Science

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    I snipped off the images when quoting your post for brevity, not that I didn't enjoy them :)

    I was glad to read your analysis, because I agree completely. I keep going back and forth as to whether or not Libby was actually on one of the platforms, because I get a better match between ISP images and my mockup in a 3D reconstruction if I place Libby a little higher than the bridge and a little further back (i.e. to the side of the bridge up the hill a little). My best guess at BG height based on these unknowns is 5' 8" +/- 3" because there are so many unknowns. I also agree w/ Gray Hughes estimate of BG location on the bridge
     
  3. No it's not

    No it's not that simple

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    Thank you Michael. -Nin
     
  4. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    This video was uploaded late last year. It shows the SE end of the bridge, from 35:28 to 35:50, 1st looking SE and through the abandoned RoW, and then off the bridge looking NW, at a couple or a few spots, right around where I and a lot of us think Abby was standing.

    [video=youtube;mEKbqb_szEU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEKbqb_szEU[/video]
     
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  5. WebSight

    WebSight Active Member

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    Hey BCA! I hadn't really noticed that spot before. I am working with layers and erase those parts that duplicate areas we don't want from the mirrored section. Let me redo the experiment and make sure that the spot isn't a spot that I didn't erase that should have been.

    One thing I would say is that there does appear to be mustache. Now I know we are mirroring so it is not a true model but it also makes the features on the left side of his face stand out stronger to me, like the mustache and its sandy brown appearance.
     
  6. Thyme

    Thyme Member

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    I know absolutely nothing about snapchat. Just curious. On the original screenshot does the +11 by the camera mean that she has uploaded 11 other images at the same time as those two just as it would on facebook? If so then I imagine they took their time making their way to the bridge. [In reference to the discussion regarding the drop off time.] TIA
     
  7. ts51

    ts51 New Member

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    This is probably a scroll and role..but as someone mentioned above, your mind wants to "see" something that's not there..and the saying, once you see something, you can't unsee it..WAY back in the threads someone saw a puppy in BG's coat and after looking at the image awhile back, I see that too, or a baby goat..(I swear I'm not on drugs and don't need to be!), and now I can't unsee it..I don't see a skull as much as I try..so..here goes a way out there thought..could the thing in is right pocket be a bottle of water, the "purse" a small feed bag and that is how he lured the girls "down the hill"..hey want to see my pup, racoon, goat..I do think it looks like a gun in his right pocket, but a really big gun to be walking around in broad daylight with...I know..sounds nuts..I just look and look at the images and try to figure out what I'm seeing, because my rational brain tells me BG was not walking around with a baby goat..seriously..I wish I knew how to get that little spaceship emogee(sp?)..I'm sure that's what this posts sounds like...anyhooo..always great work here with images. And the goat is on a rope..
     
  8. Jax49

    Jax49 Florida Native

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    kirkassoc posted this GH video on the main thread.

    [video=youtube;G39sZt-j4kk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39sZt-j4kk[/video]
     
  9. Confusion

    Confusion Creative Spelling Expert

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    This is a pretty quick one, but I did want to include a version of what I did to determine his size. Again, I mirrored her, resized him until the rails were the same size as those on her picture, flipped her back and pasted him next to her. I don't have him standing perfectly straight, and their feet aren't lined up as well as I'd like, but it gives an idea of how tall he is compared to her.
    BG&A.jpg
     
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  10. michael.gartley

    michael.gartley Verified Expert in Imaging Science

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    I think the +11 in the lower corner of each photo corresponds to the number of images available to scroll through for that particular news story in the event you click on the photo.

    Such as in the Daily Mail article here:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4224810/Two-bodies-search-missing-13-year-old-girls.html

    In other words, I think it has nothing to do with Snapchat. However, it seems all of the Snapchat images shared came from the same source, since they all have the same time since captured (upper left) and the same time left before it disappears (upper right circle).
     
  11. WebSight

    WebSight Active Member

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    Nin,

    Thanks for your latest post. I always find them so informative even though I don't always understand the technical details, lol.

    Awhile back on the main thread you posted that you had contacted GH about the height issues on his latest video as you could not reconcile them. I may have missed your follow up post regarding your consultation with him so I hope you don't mind me asking the following questions. What was the outcome? Is this latest post reflecting the results of your findings versus his?

    Thx!
     
  12. michael.gartley

    michael.gartley Verified Expert in Imaging Science

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    My opinion regarding the original two images of BG supplied by ISP on Feb 15th is there are no image features indicating any image manipulation or modification (such as editing with layers, or using a clone brush to mask something) except for possibly a sharpening filter and/or printing to hard copy (paper or photo paper) and re-scanning back into soft copy (digital).
     
  13. Shiressleuth

    Shiressleuth On Time Out

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    So you think BG is between 5' 7" and 5' 9" based on your final analysis?
     
  14. ImnoSherlock

    ImnoSherlock Occasional Poster

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    So everything that can be seen in these pictures can be seen with the naked eye?
     
  15. No it's not

    No it's not that simple

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    Yes, here is how he would look IMO in comparison to Abby on the bridge, if he was app. 5'8" and Abby was app. 5'4":

    [​IMG]

    -Nin
     

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  16. No it's not

    No it's not that simple

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    Thank you, WS. The outcome is, that I sent him 3 messages in total via google ( one message to confirm he is getting the message) and one message via youtube directly in the video comment section, while he replied in the comment section, that he did not receive any message(s). If he is reading here, perhaps we can reconnect?

    Thanks, Nin
     
  17. Thyme

    Thyme Member

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    Thanks for the response Michael. I just noticed on that Daily Mail article all of the photo's have the +11. The one I have has the time the screenshot was uploaded to facebook. Screen-Shot-2017-02-14-at-7:39:51-pm. What I am thinking is that the other photo's were also uploaded to the facebook page at that time...giving us the +11 from facebook not from the Daily Mail news article. Hope that makes sense as I am now confusing myself.

    Edit: Or would that be the time the screenshot was taken?
     
  18. J Lee

    J Lee New Member

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    Have you mirrored the other image of Bg's face?


    Sent from my Commodore 64
     
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  19. Thyme

    Thyme Member

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    OT - Just wondering. How long did it take you to send that message? ;) Memory expansion?

    I used one of those in college back in the 80's.
     
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  20. Shiressleuth

    Shiressleuth On Time Out

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    It's a baby goat. I see it now. Before, I was sold on the puppy or a little terrier with a black and white head but I'm nuts and on drugs with you and can't do emojis either only these ¿¿¿ ;-) ☆☆
    Ps. Could the gun be a taser ?
     
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