IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #15

[holly2325]

If we only had the cell phone records.......I think we would see lots of activity. For one thing, we would know if JW used his phone after 2:30am, after he reported he went to sleep. We would know if CR used his phone after the altercation when he was hurt. We would see if JR made a few key calls after 3am as well. We could also see Lauren's missed texts. I just feel sure LE has a pretty good feeling about what happened that night. I also think Lauren's parents know. I think this was carried out by at least TWO people.

OK. I am with you on this point. If those guys really hit CR because he was with LS they would def text Wolff. And if they told Wolff LS was drunk and CR was all over her, wouldn't Wolff go after CR or maybe even both of them together. He wouldn't wait outside to give her time to ..... with CR and then punish her for it on her way out the door. Imagine hiding out for an hour with your blood boiling because you think some guy is inside bonking your gf. That makes no sense to me. Secondly, if Mrs Spierer thought JW murdered her daughter, I don't think she would use the words "shame on you".

But, but, but, why have they not released Wolff as a suspect if there is no cell phone activity on his phone that night and why did they go over there with the dogs to search on Wednesday. Releasing him as a suspect could put the heat on the other parties who might be knowledgeable but less culpable. So why.

 

[sv614]

OK. I am with you on this point. If those guys really hit CR because he was with LS they would def text Wolff. And if they told Wolff LS was drunk and CR was all over her, wouldn't Wolff go after CR or maybe even both of them together. He wouldn't wait outside to give her time to ..... with CR and then punish her for it on her way out the door. Imagine hiding out for an hour with your blood boiling because you think some guy is inside bonking your gf. That makes no sense to me. Secondly, if Mrs Spierer thought JW murdered her daughter, I don't think she would use the words "shame on you".

But, but, but, why have they not released Wolff as a suspect if there is no cell phone activity on his phone that night and why did they go over there with the dogs to search on Wednesday. Releasing him as a suspect could put the heat on the other parties who might be knowledgeable but less culpable. So why.

Well, he's not a suspect. He's a POI. and other than the press conference gaffe where Qualters (it was Qualters, wasn't it?) admitted that he is "certainly" a POI I don't think that LE has officially named nor cleared anyone on the record.

As for why they would search his house with the dogs ... well, maybe they asked him if they could and he allowed them, so why not?. The boyfriend is always a prime POI in cases like this, from what I understand.

Maybe they wanted to throw off another POI in thinking they were exploring a lot of options rather than zeroing in, and this was an easy way.

I'm a little confused as to why you think CS (LS's mom) would NOT say "shame on you" if she thought JW were involved? (FWIW I don't think he is, but I am curious about your reasoning, maybe I missed something)

 

[jjenny]

Because the pelvis can be seen with the naked eye. The hair wouldn't be that clear either way without an expert looking, and the teeth they would have to open the mouth and look and still speculate.

A hair wouldn't be clear? How is that possible? The head either has long blond hair or it doesn't.

 

[cluciano63]

I am sure LE has an idea whether or not the body found is Lauren but are not experts and not in a position to say either way. And they may have visually determined the race but again, they are not the ones to make the call. There is already speculation, they probably want to keep it as lowkey as possible until they can rule her out, hopefully tomorrow (or determine this is Lauren.)

If it is her, this case is even more like Phylicia Barnes' than it already was...

 

[sv614]

So I'm seeing a lot of MSM fueling speculation that the Fall Creek body is LS.

I'm curious, do you guys think this is just because it makes for some quick buzz, or because MSM might have an inside source or two that is leaning in that direction?

And before you ask, yes I did read all the articles, and am fully aware that none of them actually say that it is probably LS or anything like that, but I think the headlines speak for themselves.

Is there something to these headlines or is it just typical media antics?

http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...ays-of-our-lives-star-s-cousin-lauren-spierer

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/0...if-it-is-that-lauren-spierer/?test=latestnews

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/04/indiana.missing.student/

 

[jjenny]

I don't think it means anything. LS is the most high profile case of a person missing in the area, so that's why I think msm is suggesting that this body could be her.

 

[sv614]

A hair wouldn't be clear? How is that possible? The head either has long blond hair or it doesn't.

As Bessie noted in a previous post, hair that is decomposing underwater can change color from Blonde to red or perhaps other shades.

 

[jjenny]

As Bessie noted in a previous post, hair that is decomposing underwater can change color from Blonde to red or perhaps other shades.

It'd still be blond or red. I think whoever has the body obviously knows more than what they are telling the public.

 

[cluciano63]

So I'm seeing a lot of MSM fueling speculation that the Fall Creek body is LS.

I'm curious, do you guys think this is just because it makes for some quick buzz, or because MSM might have an inside source or two that is leaning in that direction?

And before you ask, yes I did read all the articles, and am fully aware that none of them actually say that it is probably LS or anything like that, but I think the headlines speak for themselves.

Is there something to these headlines or is it just typical media antics?

http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...ays-of-our-lives-star-s-cousin-lauren-spierer

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/0...if-it-is-that-lauren-spierer/?test=latestnews

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/04/indiana.missing.student/

The media sources you linked are high on hyperbole all the time...they like to stir it up in other words...so I doubt they know more than we do. They would not be coy in publishing rumors...especially the examiner, which is not really media.

 

[webrocket]

if the body is Lauren I doubt any of the guys at IU were involved. think about it, all these guys were from out of state. why would they take a body to the state's largest city to dump it? you would think they'd find the nearest cornfield and get back to Bloomington ASAP.

again, if the body is Lauren, it was probably someone who passed by Indy on their way out.

 

[rlc]

Rereading LS's mom's "shame on you" words makes me think she was targeting JR and his unnamed visitor. The part about the person who knows this person...at first I took it to mean the person who knows the identity of the person, but knowing JR had a visitor makes me think her phrasing was deliberate--that she thinks the visitor was responsible, and JR the only one of LS's friends with the information that would confirm it.

 

[sv614]

if the body is Lauren I doubt any of the guys at IU were involved. think about it, all these guys were from out of state. why would they take a body to the state's largest city to dump it? you would think they'd find the nearest cornfield and get back to Bloomington ASAP.

again, if the body is Lauren, it was probably someone who passed by Indy on their way out.

It's on the way home from IU to his hometown for JR, and fits the theory that he left with her in his car and disposed of it along the way.

 

[elmomom]

Just to calm some nerves... there is a person who comments on TGs articles who seems to sometimes have inside info on the investigation (but not really LS and her friends). He comments under the name "g." In any case he says he heard that the Spierers were given the heads up that the body was most likely not Lauren's.
Again, this was just a comment by an unidentified individual and it may be meaningless, but I thought it was worth sharing. But even I don't put a lot of weight on it.

 

[holly2325]

Well, he's not a suspect. He's a POI. and other than the press conference gaffe where Qualters (it was Qualters, wasn't it?) admitted that he is "certainly" a POI I don't think that LE has officially named nor cleared anyone on the record.

As for why they would search his house with the dogs ... well, maybe they asked him if they could and he allowed them, so why not?. The boyfriend is always a prime POI in cases like this, from what I understand.

Maybe they wanted to throw off another POI in thinking they were exploring a lot of options rather than zeroing in, and this was an easy way.

I'm a little confused as to why you think CS (LS's mom) would NOT say "shame on you" if she thought JW were involved? (FWIW I don't think he is, but I am curious about your reasoning, maybe I missed something)

Sorry I used the word suspect for POI .... As for "Shame on you", IMO those words are not harsh enough to cover a violent crime with intent. Sorry to assume but if the perp is JW that's what it would be.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

Almost everyone that goes home from IU passes through Indianapolis. IF JR is NOT involved, he is certainly getting a lot of heat... I feel for him if he is NOT involved. There has been ZERO evidence yet most people are suspecting him.

Anyways, part of me thinks the body is not Lauren. However, part of me feels that if the body was NOT Lauren, we would have gotten a heads down by now... Who knows. I'm pretty nervous.

IF it's Lauren, for me it just makes it more obvious that it was a stranger passing through Bloomington.

I think one of the guys would rather dispose of the body on the rural areas near Bloomington or closer to their hometown.

 

[Berk13]

Okay, I realize this isn't extremely important information, but I just took someone's advice and read the Phish threads very carefully. JW's supposed roommate never says that ZO and/or AB are members of AEPi. All he ever says about them is that they are two years younger than JW. He does say that JR is a member of AEPi but that JR doesn't hang out with most of the other fraternity guys, and instead hangs out with his roommates from Michigan. Another person on that site who claims to know ZO and AB says that they are not at all affiliated with AEPi.

There is obviously no way to confirm whether the people posting on that site actually know the people they say they know, but again, I still haven't seen anything that confirms JW was close with ZO and AB. Therefore, I'm still not convinced that the fight at Smallwood was all about LS. I still think it could have been drug-related and LS just happened to be there when it all went down.

 

[sv614]

Almost everyone that goes home from IU passes through Indianapolis. IF JR is NOT involved, he is certainly getting a lot of heat... I feel for him if he is NOT involved. There has been ZERO evidence yet most people are suspecting him.

Anyways, part of me thinks the body is not Lauren. However, part of me feels that if the body was NOT Lauren, we would have gotten a heads down by now... Who knows. I'm pretty nervous.

IF it's Lauren, for me it just makes it more obvious that it was a stranger passing through Bloomington.

I think one of the guys would rather dispose of the body on the rural areas near Bloomington or closer to their hometown.

I can relate to having mixed feelings about whether or not it's Lauren. I'm experiencing similarly conflicting thoughts for the very same reasons.

As for JR, I just can't get over being convinced of his involvement. You are 100% correct in that we do not know of any evidence against him, but consider the following:

1. The claim that he saw her turn the corner around 4:30am.
- Completely uncorroborated
- It has been said that it would have been very difficult for him to actually see her.
- It has been said that cameras would likely have spotted this (not definitely, but likely).
- This is not the route she took to get from Smallwood to 5 North. Why would she take a different route back? Humans are creatures of habit. Don't you usually take the same route to a place that you visit frequently (it has been said she visited there frequently)?
- It has been generally accepted as a truth that JR had a friend staying with him that night. Why has the friend not corroborated ANY of this to LE (the way that MB has corroborated CR's timeline)?

2. The claim that LS made an unanswered phone call from JR's phone at 4:15am to DR.
- Uncorroborated
- Supposedly she was looking for her phone. Really? Why would she call DR of all people? Seems like he was not with her for very long. Why wouldn't she call CR or MB? If she waited until 4:15am to make the "have you seen my phone?" call, you would think she would start with her last whereabouts, not her first.
- Did she know by the time she left Kilroy's with CR that she had lost her phone? Why didn't she call Kilroy's?
- Did she simply want to be let into Smallwood? Why wouldn't she call her roommate? Seems like DR would be an odd person to choose for that particular call.

3. The attorney.
- Why Voyles? Why such an expensive, attention-drawing, high-profile attorney?
- I am sure the R's have access to tons of experienced, big money attorneys. Why this one? IMO, because they need someone to see this kid through a trial by jury.
- I said this before, but you don't hire a Voyles just to tell you to leave town and keep your mouth shut. You hire him for the long haul.
- This was a decision in which JR and his family weighed that the risk of hiring Voyles (reputation and rumor-wise) was lesser than the risk of NOT hiring Voyles.

4. Leaving town so soon.
- Even CR, who looked like the most obvious POI at the time with him amnesia story, stuck around, submitted DNA, and took a polygraph that from what I understand was administered by LE.
- JR left Bloomington so quickly that not one person can attest that he was still in town on June 4. I've asked on this board probably 4 or 5 times at this point.

5. The "cooperation" and "polygraph".
- JR "provided" a statement.
- He "provided" a polygraph.
- Who does that? Who "provides" private a polygraph to LE?
- All communication has been through his lawyer.

Even if he is not related to her disappearance (and I'd be giving him a really huge benefit of the doubt), he is hiding something if you ask me.

 

[plaidmom]

Almost everyone that goes home from IU passes through Indianapolis. IF JR is NOT involved, he is certainly getting a lot of heat... I feel for him if he is NOT involved. There has been ZERO evidence yet most people are suspecting him.

Anyways, part of me thinks the body is not Lauren. However, part of me feels that if the body was NOT Lauren, we would have gotten a heads down by now... Who knows. I'm pretty nervous.

IF it's Lauren, for me it just makes it more obvious that it was a stranger passing through Bloomington.

I think one of the guys would rather dispose of the body on the rural areas near Bloomington or closer to their hometown.

Or, thinking outside the box, it could mean that Lauren was alive when she left Bloomington. Sometime after 2:51, or 3:38 or even 4:30 depending on who you choose believe.

That area of Fall Creek is not that far from Broad Ripple, an area of Indianapolis that would be familiar to most college students.

 

[cluciano63]

In a way I almost hope it is Lauren...I don't believe she is alive and I am afraid she won't be found at all.

 

[jjenny]

In a way I almost hope it is Lauren...I don't believe she is alive and I am afraid she won't be found at all.

The sooner the body is found the better for the investigation because evidence deteriorates. But if I were to bet, I don't think it's her. Like I said, she's got long blond hair and if the body had that, I am thinking we would have had more info by now.