IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[akh]

Right, but a person has to call the police and report it first, right?

I'm sure most drunken fist fights do not get reported. But in this case, getting punched in the face is at the heart of CR's alibi and defense. As the last person to be seen with LS, his account of the night is pretty important, but he can't tell the police, or anyone else because he was punched in the face so hard that he lost his memory for the entire evening after the punch (including the 15 minutes beforehand, when coincidentally, he is seen by witnesses acting aggressively toward the victim and caught on video 'helping' her walk, because she is too intoxicated to walk on her own, and presumably the point that he is confronted by a group of guys about this, and allegedly tells them off)

Yet, CR didn't call the police that night, or the next day. Or ever. When he ran into several people the day(s) after Lauren went missing he and MB told several people that LS had been at his apartment, and had disappeared after leaving. He did tell people he drank too much and went to bed, but none of these people report that he told them about being punched or having amnesia. In the only two accounts of witnesses who talked to CR on June 3rd, both report that he showed no signs of being in a fight. (Chris Malone article and anon at CVS).

The punch became a lot more important when he was named as a POI and got a lawyer.

Anyone who has been drinking is rarely going to call the police and report anything because they realize they could end up in their own trouble. The police are just as likely to ticket/arrest both and let the judge sort it out. Let alone nail both with PI's. So, no, I don't think anything is odd about CR not making a big deal about the punch at the time.

Still, the police learned of the altercation and allegedly have evidence of it (video and statements). That's all they need to take the case to the prosecutor. Or for the prosecutor to say "Let's go fishing, charge the kid that punched CR and let's get them on record". They didn't need it to be reported at the time.

At this point I'm thinking that LE must figure they have all the info about that incident to the point there's nothing to leverage out of the situation as it stands.

 

[akh]

At this point , I would think.the only red flag being raised with JW is who slept with my girlfriend last night. I personally would think it would have taken a few more hours of emotions and thoughts before thinking she is missing. I would think that HT would had contacted CR's neighbor JR since their friends. If at that point he tells HT what time she left and elabotates on the condition LS was in.? It would be time to contact LE...And they should had drove straight to JR's and arrested him on charges of Felony Self Centered
or Felony Stupid to allow LS to stumble away barefooted and inebriated with injuries while having no phone to call for help.

But the fly in the ointment with that scenario is by the time JW is at the apartment there was plenty of time for LS to theoretically have returned home, slept, and left again. So thinking logically, he'd have to have some reason to believe she hadn't been home.

As someone said above, possibly a daily drug dosage dispenser might show she hadn't taken her medicine. That assumes she had such a dispenser and that it would be unusual for her to miss a dose. And it assumes JW knows about it and actually looked for such a clue. Certainly plausible but nothing that AFAIK is in the public record.

So it still begs the question- What made JW believe she was missing as opposed to already been home from the previous night, slept, and now left again?

We can speculate several possible answers to the question but the actual answer is what is important.

Was JW's concern because he knew something about the happenings of the night/morning? If so, what exactly did he know and when did he learn it? I'd be really curious to know any of this because it could shine a different light on things.

 

[imkeylime]

But the fly in the ointment with that scenario is by the time JW is at the apartment there was plenty of time for LS to theoretically have returned home, slept, and left again. So thinking logically, he'd have to have some reason to believe she hadn't been home.

As someone said above, possibly a daily drug dosage dispenser might show she hadn't taken her medicine. That assumes she had such a dispenser and that it would be unusual for her to miss a dose. And it assumes JW knows about it and actually looked for such a clue. Certainly plausible but nothing that AFAIK is in the public record.

So it still begs the question- What made JW believe she was missing as opposed to already been home from the previous night, slept, and now left again?

We can speculate several possible answers to the question but the actual answer is what is important.

Was JW's concern because he knew something about the happenings of the night/morning? If so, what exactly did he know and when did he learn it? I'd be really curious to know any of this because it could shine a different light on things.

From what I observe, word travels pretty fast among friend groups. By noon, I'd imagine JW had heard plenty about the fight at SW and LS' condition. I agree that it wouldn't necessarily suggest she was missing, though ... the first thought might have been that she'd crashed at 5N.

Although I don't know LS, I have a hard time envisioning my kids using a dosage dispenser. It seems like extra work, and they don't like extra work. I also don't think she'd want to call extra attention to her health condition by filling it. JMO.

I also question what DR did after seeing a call was made from JR's the next morning ... the one JR says LS made. I wonder if he contacted JR? Most kids I know text vs. call at almost every hour of the day/night ... most cell phones make a noise when a text comes in, unless that function has been disabled. That's another reason I think the call from JR's is significant. It seems 1) a more drastic measure and 2) a way to make the contact possibly trace back to LS vs. JR.

 

[Snapfade]

But the fly in the ointment with that scenario is by the time JW is at the apartment there was plenty of time for LS to theoretically have returned home, slept, and left again. So thinking logically, he'd have to have some reason to believe she hadn't been home.

As someone said above, possibly a daily drug dosage dispenser might show she hadn't taken her medicine. That assumes she had such a dispenser and that it would be unusual for her to miss a dose. And it assumes JW knows about it and actually looked for such a clue. Certainly plausible but nothing that AFAIK is in the public record.

So it still begs the question- What made JW believe she was missing as opposed to already been home from the previous night, slept, and now left again?

We can speculate several possible answers to the question but the actual answer is what is important.

Was JW's concern because he knew something about the happenings of the night/morning? If so, what exactly did he know and when did he learn it? I'd be really curious to know any of this because it could shine a different light on things.

I also agree , JW would need more information to file missing person so soon....But if LS parents were contacted , I can envision them telling JW to go file report imiediatley.

JW may have answered LS cell if CS was trying to contact her....

Ive always assumed JW picked up cell from Kilroys.. I wonder which he did first ....pick uo phone or check her room..

 

[akh]

I also agree , JW would need more information to file missing person so soon....But if LS parents were contacted , I can envision them telling JW to go file report imiediatley.

JW may have answered LS cell if CS was trying to contact her....

Ive always assumed JW picked up cell from Kilroys.. I wonder which he did first ....pick uo phone or check her room..

Contacting the parents so soon is another thing that I'm curious about. It seems to me the last thing you'd want to do is worry the parents who are hundreds of miles away and are powerless to do anything but worry. It seems like the kind of step you take when you're almost certain she is not coming back. Considering the circumstances that we know about I'd think you wouldn't reach that point until the next morning (when you know for a fact none of her friends have seen her for 24 hours and she hasn't come home to sleep).

Of course like you say, maybe they contacted him somehow. And I suppose it's possible he contacted them to see if they'd heard from her. Although I don't really remembering reading or seeing anything that looked that way. It seems like I remember seeing the family simply saying that JW called and said "LS is missing". But either scenario takes us back to calling the parents and involving and worrying them soon, and potentially needlessly at that time as opposed to waiting and gathering more info. JW certainly wouldn't have to return a text sent to LS by CS on LS' phone. And even if he did he could say she'd left her phone at Kilroy's and he'd retrieved it and will tell her to call when he sees her. He wouldn't have to jump to "She missing!"

For some reason JW seemed fairly confident she was missing while it was still easily possible (for all he should've known based on what info is out there) that she'd simply left the apartment a couple of hours prior.

I suppose possibilities are-
He's the type to jump to conclusions... ...and then possibly not think about consequences of worrying others too soon...

He could've never really considered her missing and was figuring she'd 'hooked up' with someone and he was simply trying to make her look bad to family and friends while he played the role of concerned boyfriend (while being more of a jealous and spiteful boyfriend (or ex-boyfriend)).

He knew much about that morning's happenings. Which goes back to wondering when and what he knew? And I suppose how that info was gleaned. Did someone follow LS and CR from SW and report that info to JW? Did he get a call immediately after the SW altercation? At daybreak? Did someone else get a call (like LS's friends and report it to him at some point)? When? Did someone keep a watch on 5N?

And of course there's the possibility he knew she was missing because he was involved and this is the coverup on his part.
-

As for the phone at Kilroy's.... in a normal situation like that would the BF go pick it up or would he leave it assuming the GF would retrieve her own phone (either when she figures out she left it or he tells her it's there?)?

I don't know...
-
Moreso than the call to DR I wonder about the 2nd call and why it's such a secret?

 

[imkeylime]

... As for the phone at Kilroy's.... in a normal situation like that would the BF go pick it up or would he leave it assuming the GF would retrieve her own phone (either when she figures out she left it or he tells her it's there?)?

I don't know...
-
Moreso than the call to DR I wonder about the 2nd call and why it's such a secret?

Snipped by me. While I agree with your entire post, the last two points really interest me. The second call is a mystery for sure. But re: picking up LS' phone: I'm not sure how my daughter would react if a BF picked up her phone from somewhere she'd left it. Granted, she's younger than LS and hasn't had that committed of a relationship. But ... I'm not sure if it would be better or worse if the relationship was committed. It could seem like JW was checking up on her rather than being helpful. JMO.

In general, I don't usually consider JW with the same gravity as the other POIs. But it does seem like there must be some reason for considering her missing so early on.

 

[Snapfade]

Snipped by me. While I agree with your entire post, the last two points really interest me. The second call is a mystery for sure. But re: picking up LS' phone: I'm not sure how my daughter would react if a BF picked up her phone from somewhere she'd left it. Granted, she's younger than LS and hasn't had that committed of a relationship. But ... I'm not sure if it would be better or worse if the relationship was committed. It could seem like JW was checking up on her rather than being helpful. JMO.

In general, I don't usually consider JW with the same gravity as the other POIs. But it does seem like there must be some reason for considering her missing so early on.

JW picking up cell first would tell me he wasnt concerned emough about a missing LS to report her missing so soon.
If he bypasses kilroys and goes straight to SW , he was already concerned.

Thats strictly my opinion..Not a strong opinion either

 

[Ros]

Based on posts by aaronwg on the pt board on June 24, 2011:

Around noon, JW drove aaronwg to class. After class, aaronwg played golf. about 4-5 p.m., JW texted aaronwg, extremely upset about not being able to find LS.

 

[monkey222]

The quick decision to report her missing has always bothered me, especially since they had prior charges of underage drinking from Halloween and PI. So reporting a missing person to police knowing that her last nights whereabouts were at Kilroys and apts drinking would not bode well on report. So he must have been sure that something was truly amiss

 

[masootz]

we all have to remember that we don't know what jw and ls' relationship was like on a daily basis. maybe it was extremely unusual for her to not make contact first thing in the morning. maybe they had plans or a routine that made him suspicious and worried so soon.

for me, if i don't hear from my wife by lunch time on a normal day i definitely notice the absence of contact. it's not that we specifically have plans to talk every day, it's just that i usually get a call or email and not hearing from her is fairly unusual. that's our routine which varies greatly from others i know who don't talk at all during the day and probably wouldn't notice their significant other missing for a week.

just my 2 cents that we don't know enough about their relationship to decide that it's weird that he'd be worried so soon.

 

[Snapfade]

The quick decision to report her missing has always bothered me, especially since they had prior charges of underage drinking from Halloween and PI. So reporting a missing person to police knowing that her last nights whereabouts were at Kilroys and apts drinking would not bode well on report. So he must have been sure that something was truly amiss

I wonder if JW would had called LE to see if she was in jail. I would have considered that more than she was missing.

 

[Ros]

It is possible to request whatever information is open to the public on a case:

http://bloomington.in.gov/documents/viewDocument.php?document_id=670

Note that for an ongoing investigation, very little information, if any, will be open to the public.

 

[akh]

we all have to remember that we don't know what jw and ls' relationship was like on a daily basis. maybe it was extremely unusual for her to not make contact first thing in the morning. maybe they had plans or a routine that made him suspicious and worried so soon.

for me, if i don't hear from my wife by lunch time on a normal day i definitely notice the absence of contact. it's not that we specifically have plans to talk every day, it's just that i usually get a call or email and not hearing from her is fairly unusual. that's our routine which varies greatly from others i know who don't talk at all during the day and probably wouldn't notice their significant other missing for a week.

just my 2 cents that we don't know enough about their relationship to decide that it's weird that he'd be worried so soon.

But he knows or learns she'd lost her cell phone at the bar. That should at least somewhat explain the lack of contact if he was expecting contact.

 

[akh]

I wonder if JW would had called LE to see if she was in jail. I would have considered that more than she was missing.

And finding out she's not there would the police push him to elevate this to a missing person's case? If he would himself push to elevate it to a missing person case then we're right back to him willing to early on decide something was amiss.

But now we're back into the problem of speculating on speculation and no real information to base anything further on. :banghead:

It would be interesting to know what possibilities he considered checking before declaring she's missing and involving the parents and a police report (such as making sure she wasn't arrested, in the hospital, contacting all of her friends, etc).

 

[Mophebius]

Ros says "This article alleges that CR took a polygraph test. True or bad reporting from a paper quite distant from Bloomington?"

True it has been reported that CR took a Polygraph, however it was by a 3rd party Polygrapher and not by the Police. So in other words, no he hasn't taken a legitimate Polygraph. DR I believe was the only one of the POI's to take a police administered Poly. Which in and of itself should say alot about the rest of the players in this case not doing so...

 

[Ros]

Ros says "This article alleges that CR took a polygraph test. True or bad reporting from a paper quite distant from Bloomington?"

True it has been reported that CR took a Polygraph, however it was by a 3rd party Polygrapher and not by the Police. So in other words, no he hasn't taken a legitimate Polygraph. DR I believe was the only one of the POI's to take a police administered Poly. Which in and of itself should say alot about the rest of the players in this case not doing so...

The article is not very specific, but it implies that more than one of Lauren's friends took a police polygraph test. It also gets CR and JR mixed up.

"Police make man take a lie detector test"

"Police have not identified Rossman, but said they have carried out a number of lie detector tests on several people including friends of the blonde student."

"Rossman, who has taken a polygraph test, told police he watched her walk away to make sure she was OK, according to the New York Post."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-Man-seen-memory-moments.html#axzz2JhQaeWpl

 

[Mophebius]

AKH says "For some reason JW seemed fairly confident she was missing while it was still easily possible (for all he should've known based on what info is out there) that she'd simply left the apartment a couple of hours prior."

Imo, as a former 20 year old college student, who had a 20 year old girlfriend, a few years back now. I've got to say that the fact that Lauren had been separated from her cellphone would be enough, from a boyfriends perspective, to have lots of suspicion that something wasnt right. I know I would have had all kinds of suspicion if I was JW, particularly with what else we know JW knew about ie the medical condition, likely drug use, company she kept etc. The cell phone would bemore likend to the "$h!t just got real moment" for me.

 

[Snapfade]

AKH says "For some reason JW seemed fairly confident she was missing while it was still easily possible (for all he should've known based on what info is out there) that she'd simply left the apartment a couple of hours prior."

Imo, as a former 20 year old college student, who had a 20 year old girlfriend, a few years back now. I've got to say that the fact that Lauren had been separated from her cellphone would be enough, from a boyfriends perspective, to have lots of suspicion that something wasnt right. I know I would have had all kinds of suspicion if I was JW, particularly with what else we know JW knew about ie the medical condition, likely drug use, company she kept etc. The cell phone would bemore likend to the "$h!t just got real moment" for me.

I would agree that learning she was seperated from her cell would be "$hit just got real moment. But if they are in a comitted relationship but fighting, it also might have been a whew! moment... Whew, there is a reason she has not responded to any of my texts. JW might have thought LS not responding was.end of relationship. ,,,and unfortunatly he appears to be right....

So Sad, that a future graduate, wife, and mother taken from her family and all of us, by
by evil. She appeared to have a lot of compassion for others and tried to make the world a better place to live. wish we could have seen LS reach her potential in life.

 

[AbbeyR]

The article is not very specific, but it implies that more than one of Lauren's friends took a police polygraph test.

This is an old article, and it's wrong. Only DR has taken an LE-administered polygraph.

The lawyers for the other POI, and some of the POI themselves have given purposely misleading statements to the media to make it sound like they have cooperated more than they have.

 

[masootz]

AKH says "For some reason JW seemed fairly confident she was missing while it was still easily possible (for all he should've known based on what info is out there) that she'd simply left the apartment a couple of hours prior."

Imo, as a former 20 year old college student, who had a 20 year old girlfriend, a few years back now. I've got to say that the fact that Lauren had been separated from her cellphone would be enough, from a boyfriends perspective, to have lots of suspicion that something wasnt right. I know I would have had all kinds of suspicion if I was JW, particularly with what else we know JW knew about ie the medical condition, likely drug use, company she kept etc. The cell phone would bemore likend to the "$h!t just got real moment" for me.

exactly. if he had already heard about the fight, if friends told him that she was in bad shape, etc and then he finds out her phone and wallet are missing and he can't find her at her apt what else would he do but call the police? i mean it's not like he reported her missing at dawn. didn't she get reported missing later in the afternoon? imo his reaction isn't suspicious.