IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[Kadence]

Now we may finally get a few answers.

Headlines - Herald Times Online June 26th 2013

Missing IU student Lauren Spierer's parents sue three men; claim actions led to her death

Why is that?

I'm curious as well Jacobite - why would a lawsuit against them make you think JW?

 

[Kadence]

I'm going to have a bit of a rant here and I apologize to all beforehand. After reading the suit, I'm disgusted by the behavior of these "men", one who was supposedly a friend of Lauren's. I know you're reading so I will tell you - YOU DISGUST ME!!! How dare you!!! You deserve everything that is coming your way, and it's coming! You thought of yourselves before Lauren, aaargh, I want to smack you all in the face - hard!

WHY? Why did you mistreat her like that? What is wrong with you?!

OK rant off (OK not really!), Lauren's parents did want to do this but you left them no choice:

"The lawsuit was filed “with great reluctance,” according to a statement from Jason Barclay, the lawyer representing Rob and Charlene Spierer. They filed it only after Barclay and his legal team advised them they “would lose certain legal rights” if they didn’t file anything within two years of Spierer’s disappearance." Someone, Jacobite? mentioned the two year term. Good sleuthing!

In addition:"The suit charges Corey Rossman, Jason Rosenbaum and Michael Beth with “negligence resulting in the disappearance, death or injury of an adult child.” Rossman and Rosenbaum also are charged with “negligence per se” and “dram shop,” a legal term used when damages are sought for providing alcohol to someone who is clearly intoxicated." I have never heard of "dram shop" before.

"dram shop rule:

n. a statute (Dram Shop Act) or case law in 38 states which makes a business which sells alcoholic drinks or a host who serves liquor to a drinker who is obviously intoxicated or close to it, strictly liable to anyone injured by the drunken patron or guest."

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=584

Alright 5N boys - man up and FINALLY do the right thing and tell what you know. I do want to let you know that while I had my doubts about certain aspects of your story of what happened that night, (i.e amnesia my butt!) I was still thinking that maybe, just maybe, you were innocent but stupid but I must say that after reading the suit, I no longer believe that you're innocent - stupid, yes, and much more.

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...ierer-s-parents-sue-3-who-were-their-daughter

 

[akh]

I'm curious if LE will in anyway cooperate with this suit? It's possible they are in synch with it and even pulling some strings behind the scenes to direct it. OTOH, it's possible they see it as a potential hindrance to the criminal investigation and potential future case and would prefer it not to happen.

Which means... Will the parents have access to the security videos for this trial? ...Or will that have to be litigated itself? How much of what LE has do they know about and want for this case? I'm not sure the state can be compelled to release anything... This case is now on two completely different paths- civil and criminal. The two aren't necessarily compatible so this could be interesting from a legal perspective.

 

[Jupiter812]

It sure is good to be able to come to WS where people are caring and reasonable because the cruel, heartless posters are out in force elsewhere with the usual blame-the-victim crap.

The story still falls apart for me because I simply do not believe that such an incapacitated young woman would refuse two offers to stay over and walk home instead. How convenient that MB and JR washed their hands of her so easily by saying they offered to help and that CR had amnesia. Well it worked for two years, so we shall see.

She had spent hours with CR that evening. Why would she all of a sudden want to leave--if she was there at all that is?

 

[Jupiter812]

I'm curious if LE will in anyway cooperate with this suit? It's possible they are in synch with it and even pulling some strings behind the scenes to direct it. OTOH, it's possible they see it as a potential hindrance to the criminal investigation and potential future case and would prefer it not to happen.

Which means... Will the parents have access to the security videos for this trial? ...Or will that have to be litigated itself? How much of what LE has do they know about and want for this case? I'm not sure the state can be compelled to release anything... This case is now on two completely different paths- civil and criminal. The two aren't necessarily compatible so this could be interesting from a legal perspective.

I'm thinking the former--that they're in sync with it.

 

[Jupiter812]

What do you imagine would be MB's or JR's answer to the question, "Why didn't you just walk her home yourself?"

Why do YOU think they did not, if it fact it's true?

 

[kimbella]

What do you imagine would be MB's or JR's answer to the question, "Why didn't you just walk her home yourself?"

Why do YOU think they did not, if it fact it's true?

I can see them coming up with something along these lines:
A: They were banned from Smallwood and didn't want any trouble there.
B: They were worried that whomever CR fought with was still there.
C: They didn't want to be arrested for Public Intox (or maybe underage drinking - I can't remember their ages) on the way to/from Smallwood, especially since they had prior alcohol-related arrests.

Not that I think any of those are legitimate reasons for not walking her home (nor do I believe that she walked herself home in the first place), but I can see JR and MB using something along those lines as excuses.

What I can't see is JR walking her out his door and then running upstairs to his 2nd/3rd floor balcony, as it has been reported that he watched her turn the corner from 11th onto College from his balcony. Heck, she could have already rounded the corner by the time he got to the upstairs to the balcony!

 

[akh]

She had spent hours with CR that evening. Why would she all of a sudden want to leave--if she was there at all that is?

I suppose the quick answer would be whether there is any truth to the story that he was throwing up and had to be put to bed. That would at least end their part of the night as a pair.

The PI's said MB took LS to JR's to "make her his problem". So I'd like to know why she was a problem? It could've just been a turn of phrase of course but if not, then what exactly was happening that she was being a problem for MB? Why couldn't she stay there? I suppose it could be he'd say she was being loud, incoherent, and/or overly emotional due to intoxication. I'm not sure how that would help his defense to the suit except that he'd be able to argue taking her to JR was his attempt at getting her help (getting her to a friend that knew her and her friends). So that would put the onus on JR. So maybe this lawsuit is an opportunity to drive a wedge or two between the 3 of them and see if anyone cries 'uncle' and looks for a deal.

A thought... Did CR and MB have girlfriends? Maybe it would've been a problem for LS to be there in the morning? I never thought about that angle before...

Financially, I wonder if all 3 could absorb a civil loss and just not fight the lawsuit past the technical phase?

 

[akh]

I can see them coming up with something along these lines:
A: They were banned from Smallwood and didn't want any trouble there.
B: They were worried that whomever CR fought with was still there.
C: They didn't want to be arrested for Public Intox (or maybe underage drinking - I can't remember their ages) on the way to/from Smallwood, especially since they had prior alcohol-related arrests.

You could add they feared not only PI but a contributing to a minor charge.

BTW... In another post I mentioned the family wanting LE evidence. After some thought it struck me that since the family is saying JR made the 2 calls-. Assuming the earlier reports were correct and JR claimed LS made those calls then IF LE checked his phone for prints I'd think his attorney might like to see if her prints were on that phone. So IOW it might not be the family that's the only one wanting to see what LE has in their files and evidence room.

 

[akh]

I'm thinking the former--that they're in sync with it.

I doubt LE would ever give their blessing for a civil suit prior to criminal charges unless they are absolutely convinced this case won't be solved without a hail Mary to maybe move it forward.

But they could well have reached that conclusion I suppose.

 

[Ros]

Wow. I'm really hoping RS & CS get the answers they so very much deserve. The boys totally brought this upon themselves.

And for victim of a previous crime- I remember reading an article about how a lot of the 5N Townhomes were robbed during Christmas Break one year. Pretty sure MB & CR's apartment got a flat screen TV stolen, amongst other things?

I knew about a burglary at JR's. Had not heard about the one at the apt of MB and CR. Cannot find it on the Bloomington crime map either. Do you have a link?

http://spotcrime.com/crime/14630916-6fd1add6bb768955e3f87af2985d6334

 

[Ros]

I can see them coming up with something along these lines:
A: They were banned from Smallwood and didn't want any trouble there.
B: They were worried that whomever CR fought with was still there.
C: They didn't want to be arrested for Public Intox (or maybe underage drinking - I can't remember their ages) on the way to/from Smallwood, especially since they had prior alcohol-related arrests.

Not that I think any of those are legitimate reasons for not walking her home (nor do I believe that she walked herself home in the first place), but I can see JR and MB using something along those lines as excuses.

What I can't see is JR walking her out his door and then running upstairs to his 2nd/3rd floor balcony, as it has been reported that he watched her turn the corner from 11th onto College from his balcony. Heck, she could have already rounded the corner by the time he got to the upstairs to the balcony!

Ages of PsOI as of June 2011: JR 21, MB 20, CR 21, JW 21, DR 20

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto

 

[Ros]

What do you imagine would be MB's or JR's answer to the question, "Why didn't you just walk her home yourself?"

Why do YOU think they did not, if it fact it's true?

I imagine MB saying that he'd already wasted too much time and his paper wasn't done yet...

JR might say something along the lines of "she seemed to be sobering up and I thought she'd be OK. It's not that far."

 

[doubtingthomas]

"At approximately 3:30 a.m on or about June 3, 2011, Beth, a victim of a previous crime at his residence, returned to his residence after being at Rosenbaum's residence, and became alarmed when he witnessed what he believed might be burglars at his residence"

There are two things that stood out to me in this quote. First, what was going on in the apt that made him think there would be burglars? He heard voices but saw no one? The place was trashed like someone was looking for something? Would like to know the answer to this one. Second, I thought MB was home working on his paper. I thought he was home when CR and LS arrived. Now we find out he was at JR's. The last time LS was seen on video was around 2:51. So if they made it to CR's around 3:00 and MB didn't come home until 3:30, what went on for half an hour at CR's?

 

[British]

The lawsuit was the best possible move, under the circumstances, for the parents.

I never believed the story that she walked alone to her apartment. Now the 3 POIs in the case will need to answer questions under oath during deposition and then during a trial. The way the complaint is written, it sounds that one of the boys (MB) seemed to sincerely care about LS's condition and was trying to find ways to help her during the incident. Hopefully his lawyers will work with the lawyers of the Spierer family for him to be dropped of the lawsuit if he talks and tells all the truth. In a similar way, maybe they could work out an agreement with LE about potential immunity if he testifies. That would be the best outcome, as it may finally bring out the truth in this case.

 

[British]

Here is an interesting article I found. I dont know if it was posted before. If so, sorry for the re-posting.

http://www.indystar.com/article/BY/20130523/NEWS01/305230018/

From the link above:

“Rob and I have never spoken to Corey Rossman,” she said. “The private investigators have never spoken to Corey. So I don’t know how it is we’re harassing him other than asking him to talk to the Bloomington police department. All of them.

 

[AbbeyR]

I'm sorry the Spierers were put in this position, but I 100% believe they are doing the right thing. The POI put themselves in this position by refusing to be accountable for anything they said, IMO.

It's not too late to do the right thing and be honest.

 

[bx2]

MB appears to have retained Greg Garrison from Indy, best known for his current WIBC radio program and successful prosecution of Mike Tyson in 1992. I'd consider that a legal "upgrade" in both reputation and cost.

CR now represented by Richard Skiles per Lohud article

 

[akh]

"At approximately 3:30 a.m on or about June 3, 2011, Beth, a victim of a previous crime at his residence, returned to his residence after being at Rosenbaum's residence, and became alarmed when he witnessed what he believed might be burglars at his residence"

There are two things that stood out to me in this quote. First, what was going on in the apt that made him think there would be burglars?

I wondered if maybe the door was open or unlocked. And if it was that it was unlocked but not open, or possibly that he saw a light on inside, then that would tell me he didn't expect CR to be there that night. So that could mean he knew CR planned to go to LS' apartment after Kilroy's and was surprised to find him there (or at least that he was planning to be somewhere other than the apt). EDIT- Which is all just a WAG and speculation... Technically this part about him leaving JR's and returning to his apartment and thinking there might be a burglary is what the family is alleging in the lawsuit and not necessarily what MB and the others have claimed. We don't know whether that is the actual statement given or something they believe is the real story based on some witness or other evidence we don't know about. It's not necessarily fact but it seems odd to make a point of something like that without it being based on MB's own statement.

I still don't like the SW confrontation in all of this. It's allegedly about her condition and CR should take her home... if so then what were they (LS and CR) doing at SW if not to go to her place? And how could they possibly know he wasn't taking her home?

 

[doubtingthomas]

That “Beth found that Spierer was slurring her speech and was far more intoxicated than she had appeared earlier in the evening. Because of Spierer’s disoriented and incapacitated condition, Beth was concerned for Spierer’s well-being and safety and attempted to convince Spierer to sleep on his and Rossman’s couch.” (Bold by me)

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...-men--claim-actions-led-to-lauren-s-death.sto

So how does JR give her the walk test to allow her to walk home?