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IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

Discussion in 'Lauren Spierer' started by bessie, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    How to Become a Verified Member

    __________________________________________________ ___________
    Who's Who in the Lauren Spierer Case, Updated 06-30-11 (by the Herald Times Online)

    Photos and Maps

    Media Links

    Bloomington Police search for missing 20 year old woman
    Lauren Spierer, age 20.
    She is a white female, 4 feet 11 inches tall, slender build, has blue eyes and long blonde hair. She is listed as a student according to IU Bloomington's website.
    Spierer was last seen walking south on College Avenue from 11th Street on her way back to her apartment in Smallwood Plaza, located on College Avenue.
    She did not arrive to her apartment and video footage does not show her entering the apartment complex.
    Spierer was wearing a white tank top with a loose, light colored button shirt over it and full length black stretch pants. She was not wearing shoes.

    http://www.lohud.com/article/20110615/NEWS02/106150373

    Re: the photo released Wednesday, 06-15-2011, of Lauren leaving Smallwood Apartments the evening of June 2, 2011.

    http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81929

    [​IMG]

    http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laure...,1261306.story
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  2. Ixchel13

    Ixchel13 Active Member

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    MC: And that's where we have a female witness who was leaving, uh, visiting a boy. She's not a college student, she's a little bit older. And she observed the young girl, which we now know to be Lauren, to tip over, while she was sitting on the top step, and hit her head on the concrete. And the boy was sitting a step or two below her.

    this statement always gets me because he says witness was visiting "a boy" and then goes on to say "the boy" was sitting below Lauren a couple of steps. But in the next paragraph, he describes Corey this and Corey that about them trying to get in and
    going up the street, and then the alley.

    PI goes on to say,

    BD:: And it was loud enough to for her to hear--

    MC: You could hear the thud

    BD: The thud of her head, yeah.

    SC: So Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway from there and Lauren is seen falling face first to the ground, hitting her head. She didn't even put up her hands to block herself. Corey helped her to her feet and then just a few steps later she crumbled again to the ground. And again, Corey helps her up and they head up the street. So Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway from there and head into an apartment building at Tenth and College and knock on the door of four girls who were partying with them earlier in the night, but no one's home.

    MC: A minute later, the door opening and them going back down and him helping her with that, kinda slung across his back.

    SC: So, going down the stairs. Going down, he slings her—her puts her...?

    When these descrepancies are brought up, people have said, "well, LE or PIs meant
    one thing but said another.
    As MaH has wondered, is this witness protecting "the boy"? And why is he even being called a boy? I know it's an expression, but it is an expression that does differentiate
    from "Corey".
    Not to defend Corey, IMO amnesia is bunko. We only have MB's word that he was completely passed out.
    Why, after smacking her head and becoming unresponsive, according to the witness, is Lauren able to get up the stairs of the arcade, try to get into the building, and then back down the stairs before CR picks her up?
    Not to mention, as I have said so many times and Vidocq went to see and understands, you cannot duck into 10th and C from the alley! 10th and V yes!
    Not only does this narrative describe two different times, but also two different
    places she tried to get into.
     
  3. Mahouston69

    Mahouston69 Digital Imaging Specialist

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    Ok, I have to go back and read now but what if....bar manager comes forward a few days after to "clear up" who saw her (leave and from where) last with both accounts being reported (JR, MB) and her statement is she saw LS on the steps in front of 5N when she was there "visiting" and it was 3:38 when she saw this and left 5N. We know there are no cameras there and would fit the timeline. Maybe, or do we have evidence besides her reported statements of which side of the block this actually took place? If it took place.

    LE has said they do not have video at 3:38 to cooberate her statements but do have video around 2:38 of the "same subjects" and similar scenario, I think.
     
  4. Ixchel13

    Ixchel13 Active Member

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    yes. Going back down and trying to get in would seem like a very similar scenario!
    So similar that LE could put them together to confuse the POIs, all of them, not just the
    5N ones.
     
  5. Mahouston69

    Mahouston69 Digital Imaging Specialist

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    [​IMG]

    You can "duck into" 10th and College
     
  6. akh

    akh Member

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    The thing about the bar manager's timing is it's reported she said "3:38".... That's a specific time. Not "Around 3:30"... Not "Must've been a quarter til 4 by then"... etc... It's weird for someone to have a specific time unless they are referencing it somehow.

    Obviously, she could've been referencing something that was wrong, but then why would LE just not explain that instead of going into double-speak about it?

    And besides the time, she also reportedly didn't identify CR. So there are two problems that have to be sorted through. To fit the official timeline the story has to ignore those two points or find an explanation for them.

    It's always possible LE and/or the PI's cobbled together the material and just made assumptions to get it to fit the official timeline when in fact they potentially have info in front of them to either blow the timeline apart, or add to it even later.

    It's a shame there's just no way to get to the bottom of this discrepancy for us here.
     
  7. Ixchel13

    Ixchel13 Active Member

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    not sure, but the staircase you boxed looks just like the one that is inside the courtyard
    of 10th and V. If not, there's an exact staircase, with garage next to it too, inside the first courtyard next to the pool and also contains the clubhouse to 10th and V.and if that's true, both bldgs would be labelled "10th and V" and the alley would be to the right of the pic. iirc, could be wrong. going back to chuzs' map.....
     
  8. Mahouston69

    Mahouston69 Digital Imaging Specialist

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    That is a staircase right off the alley between 10th and College and Tenth and Village
     
  9. Ixchel13

    Ixchel13 Active Member

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    looking at chuz' map, you can see that the north, long end of the pool opens up into the courtyard and directly across from it, in the courtyard, is the staircase you circled because I saw it there. On theleft side of the pool, you can see the clubhouse wall.
    When inside the courtyard, after entering and right past the pool is the entrance to the clubhouse on the left.
     
  10. Ixchel13

    Ixchel13 Active Member

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    see how the north end of the pool points to the perpendicular wall the staircase is
    part of? In the map, you can see the alley to the right. clicking on the attachment makes the map huge! not trying to argue MaH.
     
  11. Mahouston69

    Mahouston69 Digital Imaging Specialist

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    You're absolutely right. My mistake. Huge.

    10thnvillage.jpg
     
  12. Ixchel13

    Ixchel13 Active Member

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    not that huge, you are the one that pointed out that staircase first awhile back when we first discussed the courtyard and I didn't have any pics. and I think it is a very important clue. the pic you just posted is even more important, as you can plainly see there is no way to get to 10th and C from the alley.
    and from there, it points to the kind of ambiguity that is in the alley narrative. Were they trying to get into 10th and C or 10th and V, or both? And if it is both, was it at the same time, or two different times? and if they were trying to get in both places, who
    else besides ZC were they trying to reach? Or was ZC lying about being asleep? and
    was actually at another apt? It's not too hard to imagine, if there were two places, that the bar witness was at one of them. Hard to really believe she was just passing by.
     
  13. Mahouston69

    Mahouston69 Digital Imaging Specialist

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    If the statements are true about trying to get into tenth and College and concrete steps, it wouldn't be off the alley. Would have to be seen, around by the clock area, right? Where it digitally tells you the exact time.
     
  14. monkey222

    monkey222 Member

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    If the PIs say in their interview that LS and Corey ring or buzz apt at 10th and C, the four pre-partying girls, how does one know that LS and CR did not buzz other apts as well to find others that they may have known there to help? Did someone else come oit to see the commotion? ZC would only know after the fact that it was LS and CR there, right...? This would be from LE video, PI interview, or someone in building or nearby that saw them buzzing to get in at the dooe entrance. How many apts can one ring at the entrance that PI said they were coming out of? CR could have called others nearby if he had his phone.
     
  15. elmorejames

    elmorejames New Member

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    Maybe the exact time was noted because she made a call at that time seeking help or advice as to what she witnessed. Maybe she dialed 911 and hung up quickly thinking she didn't want to get involved. I defintely agree her reference to the exact time was in correlation to an event she remembers by phone usage.
     
  16. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    I am still confused about this. How does anyone know which apartment was buzzed? Cell phone records?
     
  17. monkey222

    monkey222 Member

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    That is what I am trying to bring up for discussion. If no one answered the door..how do we know what apt(s) were buzzed...
    ZC indicates that if she had only opened the door, perhaps LS would still be alive.
    So, when did ZC et al discover that it was LS and CR trying to come over..? One disappeared and the other is amesiac. So, did LE or PIs show ZC video of them trying to buzz..knock..whatever they did at door or vestibule? Were there other witnesses?
    I am confused too, opening up for discussion.
     
  18. Ixchel13

    Ixchel13 Active Member

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    BBM I agree, let's discuss this. with chuz' map, and Ma's pics of alley and staircase,
    we can see that the building they ducked into off the alley would have to be 10th and V.


    Yet they are supposedly seen, according to PIs, sitting on the steps of 10th and C, and reportedly trying to get into 10th and C. If they were sitting on the steps by the clock, there is a camera pointing at the steps, it's not on the arcade, it is attached to the wall to the upper left of the pool (see both Ma's pic and chuz' map) this is the only camera pointed at the steps.

    At 10th and C, you can enter a vestibule to buzz an apt. At 10th and V, you need a key to get in to buzz, but once you're in, you can walk right up to an apt and knock.
    This would be the back door of every townhouse.This is where CR would need to use his phone, to get someone to open the door.

    ...and that leads me to his amnesia. Everything this guy did up to the point, and during their time trying to get in here is verified by witnesses and video. Could it be that he needs to say he doesn't remember trying to get in 10th and V? This would cover what the witness said she saw, and also cover anyone present, allowing ZC and anyone else who may have been involved to say they were "asleep".

    It could be that Lauren and CR made it back to his apt, CR barfed and MB helped him upstairs, and then MB went over to JR's to get him to help with Lauren. When he got to JR's, he wasn't there. (he claims he called JR during this time) But when he gets back to his apt, he finds that Lauren and CR have left again.

    It is during this time, theory, that Lauren hits her head and someone carries her
    somewhere. This is perhaps the time that CR most wanted to have amnesia. He is
    possibly claiming that he doeasn't remember going back to 10th and C or is it V? And
    by doing that, he can't verify who was there. This is maybe his reward for being able to be alibied as passing out and staying passed out as soon as they got to 5N shortly before 3 a.m.

    ... just a theory, MOO and speculation.

    yes I do think we should discuss and chime in with thoughts about this and use our
    excellent maps and pics.

    One request, Ma, could you re-label that courtyard so it's showing what it is like to be inside it? because I am nearly positive it is this courtyard they went into.

    also, if Lauren, and possibly CR, left 5N again, they could go right around the corner around the west side to Morton St and knock directly on the front door of any townhouse of 10th and V. This would take less than a minute's walk. Each townhouse has a small staircase surrounded by a privacy wall. She also could have hit her head on one of those, and no one from the sidewalk could have seen this.

    They would have to be inside this small private enclosure.
     
  19. Ixchel13

    Ixchel13 Active Member

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    also, using chuz' map, and blowing it way up, you can channel the video that BTown is said to have viewed of a car parked at the curb between 8th and 9th st. on Walnut, with the driver (or passenger) being a woman, and out of the car. It was right around 4:30. If the driver had left SW, or even 10th and C, they would have to travel one-way south on College
    to get to Kilroy's, and turnleft on 8th (Kilroys on corner of 8th and Walnut)but then couldn't turn right (s) to park they would have to turn left on Walnut, one way,(N) and park their car there.
    So, technically, they would be between 8th and 9th but really closer to Kilroy's, IMO.
    Why would someone be doing this in respect to Lauren? Maybe they were trying to see if someone was still there to retrieve Lauren's phone, or maybe they had her phone. There was a guy on fb that said he saw a blond woman in a car by the curb and someone out of the car right by it. I can remember the rude admin on that page telling him he was making this up. Again, I see no reason for BTown to bring this footage up unless somehow, and we were left to guess, it might be pertinent to the case.
    Back to the phone, maybe this woman on video suddenly realized where lauren's phone was, and was trying to see if someone was still there. Kilroys employees go through a long cleanup and closing process'
    at least they did 14 years ago when I knew some waitresses there who didn't get out of there til 4:30-sometimes 5 a.m. on a reg. basis.

    On the video, then there was a young skateboarder whizzing by or something. This guy is a witness to the girl by the curb, and vice versa natch. I always thought this was the guy on fb who thinks he saw Lauren because his personality was this earnest, yet free spirited person. On this page, anyone who disagreed was basically removed, deleted, banned, etc and I mean much more quickly than any page I've ever seen.
    We need to search for this guy's posts because iirc, (?)he posted here somewhere waaaaaay back, wasn't censored whatsoever by mods iirc. Can't remember if he's considered a flake and I ask that respectfully.
    Using Chuz' map, you can see that this footage would be in the ballpark of the area and the timeline. Bar witness supposedly told Gatto that she circled the block. We assume she circled it north, but if she circled it south, this could be her, on tape.
     
  20. monkey222

    monkey222 Member

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    Thanks Ixchel. Was bar witness said to be driving or walking? I guess I always thought she was on foot, but that is how I planted scene in my mind.
     
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