In the trunk 2.6 days Decomp Info #1

[wonders]

Thank you Eve - this could go with being hidden in the yard somewhere for a day.
I never leaned that way before, but I know a few others believe that could have happened.
I can't see her bagging her after laying in a hot trunk for more then a day. Since a trunk is hotter then the outside temp the body would have too soft & messy. IMO if she wasn't bagged immediately, she was bagged within 8 hours.

Respectfully, I just don't think she hid Caylee's body in the back yard for any amount of time as the house pets would have gone nuts over it and G or C would have found her. JMHO.

 

[rose222]

Respectfully, I just don't think she hid Caylee's body in the back yard for any amount of time as the house pets would have gone nuts over it and G or C would have found her. JMHO.

Yes. Even lazy Casey wouldn't have just tried to hide the body in the backyard. I can imagine KC saying "Can't put *it* in the backyard. I mean, mum and dad might find *it* and then call me when I'm with Tony and I'd have to go back home to clear up the mess. No way! I'm hanging out at Tony's tonight no matter what!"

I don't think she would have been as carefree as she appeared to be that day/night had the body been back at Hope Spring Drive. No, Caylee was duct-taped and probably wrapped up in bags/blanket and in the trunk when KC went off to Tony's.

I've realized lately that KC probably didn't wait for Caylee to die before putting her in the trunk even if the murder was committed at home. I suppose that's why she used the duct-tape instead of a pillow or bag. She just duct-taped Caylee's face and hands and put her in the trunk while Caylee was still alive. I had for a long time hoped that KC would have had a tiny ounce of *compassion* (however fake) and would have made the death as painless as possible. Now I realize that she didn't care in the least. She just wanted to do whatever was most convenient for her.

It's a very disturbing theory for me.

 

[logicalgirl]

Yes. Even lazy Casey wouldn't have just tried to hide the body in the backyard. I can imagine KC saying "Can't put *it* in the backyard. I mean, mum and dad might find *it* and then call me when I'm with Tony and I'd have to go back home to clear up the mess. No way! I'm hanging out at Tony's tonight no matter what!"

I don't think she would have been as carefree as she appeared to be that day/night had the body been back at Hope Spring Drive. No, Caylee was duct-taped and probably wrapped up in bags/blanket and in the trunk when KC went off to Tony's.

I've realized lately that KC probably didn't wait for Caylee to die before putting her in the trunk even if the murder was committed at home. I suppose that's why she used the duct-tape instead of a pillow or bag. She just duct-taped Caylee's face and hands and put her in the trunk while Caylee was still alive. I had for a long time hoped that KC would have had a tiny ounce of *compassion* (however fake) and would have made the death as painless as possible. Now I realize that she didn't care in the least. She just wanted to do whatever was most convenient for her.

It's a very disturbing theory for me.

Yes, the last ounce of maybe there was a tiny ounce of compassion went out the window when someone posted the information that Caylee went into the garbae bags first and then the cloth bag,,,:what:

Stupidly I always assumed it was the other way around - blanket, cloth bag and then garbage bags but no....

 

[QueenD]

Yes. Even lazy Casey wouldn't have just tried to hide the body in the backyard. I can imagine KC saying "Can't put *it* in the backyard. I mean, mum and dad might find *it* and then call me when I'm with Tony and I'd have to go back home to clear up the mess. No way! I'm hanging out at Tony's tonight no matter what!"

I don't think she would have been as carefree as she appeared to be that day/night had the body been back at Hope Spring Drive. No, Caylee was duct-taped and probably wrapped up in bags/blanket and in the trunk when KC went off to Tony's.

I've realized lately that KC probably didn't wait for Caylee to die before putting her in the trunk even if the murder was committed at home. I suppose that's why she used the duct-tape instead of a pillow or bag. She just duct-taped Caylee's face and hands and put her in the trunk while Caylee was still alive. I had for a long time hoped that KC would have had a tiny ounce of *compassion* (however fake) and would have made the death as painless as possible. Now I realize that she didn't care in the least. She just wanted to do whatever was most convenient for her.

It's a very disturbing theory for me.

I always wished, hoped Caylee was deceased when the duct tape was put on her little face.

I asked JA at the book signing here, did he think the tape was put on Caylee after she passed. That maybe it was an accident (her death). He said he believed the tape was put on Caylee to kill her.

 

[MaryAnn]

Respectfully, I just don't think she hid Caylee's body in the back yard for any amount of time as the house pets would have gone nuts over it and G or C would have found her. JMHO.

such a good point. I don't care what kind of dog you have the first thing they would do is sniff, sniff, then dig dig. FCA probably thought it was a good idea until she realized how much work it would be to dig a hole that deep. Then realized she couldn't be late for her loverboy so she drove down the street and practically threw Caylee out the window. She didn't have time to try and dig another hole, that would have been way too much work.

What were those Jurors thinking???

 

[rose222]

Yes, the last ounce of maybe there was a tiny ounce of compassion went out the window when someone posted the information that Caylee went into the garbae bags first and then the cloth bag,,,:what:

Stupidly I always assumed it was the other way around - blanket, cloth bag and then garbage bags but no....

Thanks. I missed that. I thought Caylee was wrapped in the blanket first.

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks. I missed that. I thought Caylee was wrapped in the blanket first.

Yes, well WE are thinking like caring compassion people, not like cold child killers......

 

[Harmony 2]

Let's keep this thread specifically to information about the 2.6 days and decomp. Remember we also have the following thread for general theories on what happened:

Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #9
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191326"]Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[wenwe4]

Just a note to direct you all to some phenomenal work done on this thread by our own JWG and AZ Lawyer (along with BondJamesBond and others), on this specific topic . . . please look back at posts starting @ #251 on this thread (although there is so much more from the beginning).

If you were ever wondering if this board is truly valuable . . . this should put those doubts to rest once and for all! Such talent, expertise, and hard work was put into this specific topic by our members. I am still just blown away at the amount of evidence uncovered here!

 

[AZlawyer]

Just a note to direct you all to some phenomenal work done on this thread by our own JWG and AZ Lawyer (along with BondJamesBond and others), on this specific topic . . . please look back at posts starting @ #251 on this thread (although there is so much more from the beginning).

If you were ever wondering if this board is truly valuable . . . this should put those doubts to rest once and for all! Such talent, expertise, and hard work was put into this specific topic by our members. I am still just blown away at the amount of evidence uncovered here!

BBM
Not me, I'm pretty sure, unless I've completely forgotten about it. Maybe Val?

 

[logicalgirl]

BBM
Not me, I'm pretty sure, unless I've completely forgotten about it. Maybe Val?

Umm - maybe your recent work? :floorlaugh: A couple of weeks ago?

I think Beach had a pretty good hand in some of that research documented her also.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

does anyone know if Caylee had the kind of car seat strap where the hands can remain clasped together and still be able to unstrap her? I'm thinking that the 4th piece of duct tape was used to bind her hands while strapped in so she could not remove the tape on her mouth. That would only work if she didn't have to unwrap the tape when she removed her from the seat and placed her in the trunk. I don't see her risking unbinding her hands.

 

[logicalgirl]

Okay I have a request of anyone who feels like trying - as we try to answer the question of how long Caylee was based on the trunk and those who question the leaking of the garbage bags.

I weighed up 38 lbs of various things (to equal Caylee's weight) and put them in a standard black garbage with ties. The first one wouldn't hold that amount of weight, and split. Then I did the same experiment using two garbage bags and that was slightly easier, although by the time I'd carried it 50 feet - with great difficulty I might add - the bags were breaking.

One test run does not a conclusion make. Anyone else be willing to try? Shades of duct tape experiments....:great:

 

[wonders]

Okay I have a request of anyone who feels like trying - as we try to answer the question of how long Caylee was based on the trunk and those who question the leaking of the garbage bags.

I weighed up 38 lbs of various things (to equal Caylee's weight) and put them in a standard black garbage with ties. The first one wouldn't hold that amount of weight, and split. Then I did the same experiment using two garbage bags and that was slightly easier, although by the time I'd carried it 50 feet - with great difficulty I might add - the bags were breaking.

One test run does not a conclusion make. Anyone else be willing to try? Shades of duct tape experiments....:great:

LG you always surprize me with your experiments. I love that you do those things. I suppose you didn't use things that would poke holes in the bag/bags. I can see where 38lbs would be a lot of weight for one bag and two as well. Did you try scooping the bags up and carring them like you would a sleeping child? I wonder if that would make a difference. Thank you for doing this and I can't wait to see what other's will bring to the table to add to your experiments. Very interesting indeed.

 

[logicalgirl]

LG you always surprize me with your experiments. I love that you do those things. I suppose you didn't use things that would poke holes in the bag/bags. I can see where 38lbs would be a lot of weight for one bag and two as well. Did you try scooping the bags up and carring them like you would a sleeping child? I wonder if that would make a difference. Thank you for doing this and I can't wait to see what other's will bring to the table to add to your experiments. Very interesting indeed.

Yes, well thank you. My experiments these days don't get me into as much trouble as they used to when I was younger - that's for sure!

I thought about doing that - but decided if FCA was carrying these bags or one bag out to the car - any neighbour who saw her might think it was very strange if she was cuddling a black garbage bag that she slung in the trunk of her car......:waitasec:

 

[Desdemona]

A 33-gallon heavy-duty trash bag should have a load capacity of 40 to 50 pounds.

Double the bag, and one would assume a greater resistance to failure.

Gusseted bottom seals mean greater strength, more room inside, better distribution of weight, and easier to carry when full and heavy.

The downside to the gusseted seal: the bags have a tendency to leak.

Caylee died when she was within two months of her third birthday. The average three-year-old female weighs between 30 and 31 pounds.

HTH

Links:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Hefty-Cinch-Extra-Large-Gallon/dp/B000E0I4WM"]Amazon.com: Hefty Cinch Sak Extra Large, 33 Gallon Trash Bags, Case Pack, Six - 20 Count Boxes (120 Bags): Health & Personal [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@517AWY7A3ZL[/ame]

http://blog.cleanitsupply.com/the-cleanitsupply-trash-bag-cheat-sheet-guide-part-2/

http://www.armyproperty.com/Resources/NSN-Listings/Can-Liners-Trash-Bags.htm

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/height-weight-teens.shtml

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Let's look at this logically () KC took great pains to back her car in after the 16th as not to arrouse suspicions with the things she was doing in the trunk. (She did not want anyone looking in that trunk. Which might draw the conclusion that Caylee was barely if at all covered.) This was not typical behavior for her so it did just the opposite with her neighbor BB (lol) My only conclusion was that she was not at home when she placed the body in the trunk.
I think she chose a remote location to apply the tape and place her in the trunk. A park? A school? Parking lot? some place that would be vacant after 4:30 or 5 ish pm, on a Monday, in the summer, on a rainy afternoon.

Thanks for doing the experiments with the trash bags. KC probably did minimal movement with the body once it was in the trash bags. With the bugs chewing into and out of the plastic bags and let's not forget the decomp gases (I wonder if the gas can build up and pop areas of the bag) I think leakage was inevitable.

 

[logicalgirl]

A 33-gallon heavy-duty trash bag should have a load capacity of 40 to 50 pounds.

Double the bag, and one would assume a greater resistance to failure.

Gusseted bottom seals mean greater strength, more room inside, better distribution of weight, and easier to carry when full and heavy.

The downside to the gusseted seal: the bags have a tendency to leak.

Caylee died when she was within two months of her third birthday. The average three-year-old female weighs between 30 and 31 pounds.

HTH

Links:

Amazon.com: Hefty Cinch Sak Extra Large, 33 Gallon Trash Bags, Case Pack, Six - 20 Count Boxes (120 Bags): Health & Personal Care

http://blog.cleanitsupply.com/the-cleanitsupply-trash-bag-cheat-sheet-guide-part-2/

http://www.armyproperty.com/Resources/NSN-Listings/Can-Liners-Trash-Bags.htm

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/height-weight-teens.shtml

Gosh Desdemona - I can always count on you to pop in right behind me with helpful information.
Do we have any information at all that the Anthony's would be using "hefty" garbage bags for everyday use? Maybe you could find a liink that says the ones found on site were heavy duty because I missed that.

Hmm - I have no idea why she is quoted as wieghing 38 lobs....tall for her age?
But this whole conversation started because I was questioning the leaking...and since we don't know if Caylee started out wrapped in a blanket and then in one garbage bag first or why she ended up in two plus a cloth bag.

So I was speculating on different scenarios since no one can tell me for sure.

 

[logicalgirl]

Let's look at this logically () KC took great pains to back her car in after the 16th as not to arrouse suspicions with the things she was doing in the trunk. (She did not want anyone looking in that trunk. Which might draw the conclusion that Caylee was barely if at all covered.) This was not typical behavior for her so it did just the opposite with her neighbor BB (lol) My only conclusion was that she was not at home when she placed the body in the trunk.
I think she chose a remote location to apply the tape and place her in the trunk. A park? A school? Parking lot? some place that would be vacant after 4:30 or 5 ish pm, on a Monday, in the summer, on a rainy afternoon.

Thanks for doing the experiments with the trash bags. KC probably did minimal movement with the body once it was in the trash bags. With the bugs chewing into and out of the plastic bags and let's not forget the decomp gases (I wonder if the gas can build up and pop areas of the bag) I think leakage was inevitable.

I believe the only day anyone saw her car actually in the driveway was on the 18th - usually George's car would be there if he wasn't working that day or hadn't left for his afternoon shift when he was.

Yes, i can see what you are saying except the leakage would have started on Day 2. What I just can't wrap my mind around is her driving around with Caylee in the trunk uncovered. She knew her parents had the keys to her car - and what if she had been rear-ended in traffic? We know why there was a two day delay - she was busy with Tony - but just slung dead into the trunk-mmmm- I don't know..:waitasec: So are you thinking Caylee was in the car trunk dead and then she drove away and taped her?

I was hoping someone else would weigh out the 30 - 38 lbs and give it a try.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

no I'm thinking she did the lazyest thing of all and drove all the way near Tony's with the only plan she had to bluff Cindy into taking Caylee off her hands of the evening. When that didn't pan out she pulled off somewhere near Tony's (a place where she typically waits "to get off work at Universal" to "pass Caylee off to her Mom/Zanny" or to simply wait for Tony to get home) with a kid that she didn't have any room for in her Tony's night/life and applied the tape. When she passes out from that fool proof suffocation she placed her in the trunk for the night with no care or thought to her being covered up. The next day she has an "oh crapp" moment and decides to run home for bagging and cleaning up. I'm trying to think of the laziest easy way for KC to commit the crime with very little planning.