Israel Keyes: General Discussion

[digndoodle]

From an old post by Snoopster who was questioning the possibility of Keyes being involved in various murders, specifically UID "Lyle Stevik":

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AK, NY Israel Keyes - Who are all of his victims???


I see from the timeline that Keyes was in Neah Bay at the time that "Lyle" was found deceased in Grays Harbor, WA in September 2001. Keyes supposedly commited his first homicide when he lived in Neah Bay from 2001 to 2007:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Israel Keyes Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*


There was spec in Lyle's thread that he possibly had a connection to the Makah Tribe and Keyes had a letter of appreciation dated April 25 2002 from the Public Works Manager of the tribe, related to work Keyes had done for the Makah tribe:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21217&d=1331875001

WS forum for Lyle Stevik:

Lyle Stevik - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Just wondering if this could be the victim IK told authorities about that was found, but they ruled it an "accident" or my words would be a suicide....If possible I believe if I am remembering correctly he also said he moved the car in that case....If this should be his 1st victim, could possibly be why no-one can be sure how Lyle got to this motel????....In one of the above articles I read where the motel worker said there were 2 buses that stopped there, but no-one knew if this was the way Lyle came to the motel...so that tells me in reality no-one in that town saw a car, knew if he came on one of those buses or etc.......Just all my opinion but could IK have gotten his nasty hands on this UID person's transportation and perhaps drove it someplace and left it to further confuse this case???.....All is moo only but it kinda makes sense this could really be the victim that as of this date they do not know anything about a victim that was ruled an accident

 

[Sillybilly]

IF Keyes was telling the truth and his recollection was correct, the vehicle being moved seems to have been related to the "couple" that he claims to have murdered in WA. In Lyle's case, it is unknown how he arrived at Gray's Harbor, but it was speculated by bus (because he was not seen to arrive by any manner of transportation).

From the timeline:

July 2001 to October 2001: Keyes resided in Neah Bay, Washington and committed his first homicide. The identity and location of the victim are unknown.

2001 - 2007: Resided in Neah Bay, Washington

July 2001 to 2005: Keyes stated he murdered an unidentified couple in Washington. Keyes refused to tell law enforcement if the couple was married or what their relationship to one another was. It is unknown if the victims were residents of Washington, tourists, or residents he abducted from a nearby state and transported to Washington. Keyes alluded to the fact these victims were buried in a location near a valley. Keyes may have moved the victim’s car to place distance between where the vehicle was found and where the crime occurred.

<bbm>


Seems Keyes was renting vehicles, but there is a gap between 2000 and 2004.

Also from the timeline:

July 26, 2000: Vehicle rental (Enterprise) - Lakewood, Washington.

5/13/2001: DUI - Tacoma, WA
Keyes got a DUI in Tacoma, WA in 2001, the year he got out of the Army. case # C17358TC Thurston County, WA - May 13, 2001; disposition 1/9/2002

Then there are no more vehicle rentals until:

February 6 - 13, 2004: Salt Lake City, UT -
Vehicle rental (Enterprise); silver Volkswagen Jetta, Utah license plate 267WVW;

Perhaps he had his own vehicle, or was using a victim's vehicle from 2000 to 2004 and when he got his DUI the end of May 2001.

Over in the Lyle Stevik thread, I posted today a comparison of the note LS left "for the room" and the separate note "suicide" (IMO, they are two entirely different styles of printing):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #4

 

[digndoodle]

IF Keyes was telling the truth and his recollection was correct, the vehicle being moved seems to have been related to the "couple" that he claims to have murdered in WA. In Lyle's case, it is unknown how he arrived at Gray's Harbor, but it was speculated by bus (because he was not seen to arrive by any manner of transportation).

From the timeline:

<bbm>


Seems Keyes was renting vehicles, but there is a gap between 2000 and 2004.

Also from the timeline:



Then there are no more vehicle rentals until:



Perhaps he had his own vehicle, or was using a victim's vehicle from 2000 to 2004 and when he got his DUI the end of May 2001.

Over in the Lyle Stevik thread, I posted today a comparison of the note LS left "for the room" and the separate note "suicide" (IMO, they are two entirely different styles of printing):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #4

Hello again, Boy I think I need to go back and do some re-reading...lol....I thought Keyes got the DUI while still in the Military in which this caused him to serve 1 day in some type of Federal ??? Jail...I know that shows up on his arrest records (read them a long time ago) and thought I had hit a gold mine, but was only the 1 day for DUI

Yes the writing looks like 2 entirely different writings for sure and from the photo on the posts you put these on Lyle's thread...He sure looks like he is Indian...that really stood out to me for some reason...hardly looks like the frontwards photo's after you see this one from his side

Wondering if you could posts the Letter or Note found in Lyle's room and then put Keyes Suicide note alongside of that???....Would love to see comparisons on certain letters in both notes, in moo I see some of the same curves in some of the letters that is in Keyes suicide note...TIA

 

[Donamena]

Hello again, Boy I think I need to go back and do some re-reading...lol....I thought Keyes got the DUI while still in the Military in which this caused him to serve 1 day in some type of Federal ??? Jail...I know that shows up on his arrest records (read them a long time ago) and thought I had hit a gold mine, but was only the 1 day for DUI

Yes the writing looks like 2 entirely different writings for sure and from the photo on the posts you put these on Lyle's thread...He sure looks like he is Indian...that really stood out to me for some reason...hardly looks like the frontwards photo's after you see this one from his side

Wondering if you could posts the Letter or Note found in Lyle's room and then put Keyes Suicide note alongside of that???....Would love to see comparisons on certain letters in both notes, in moo I see some of the same curves in some of the letters that is in Keyes suicide note...TIA

Por Dios this guy scares me... Too much, way too much

 

[digndoodle]

Por Dios this guy scares me... Too much, way too much

Donamena, if he were still alive I would not be on here posting for sure since he told investigators he often followed his crimes online and would often comment, but I personally had to get it verified from a person that knows 100% he did kill himself in his jail cell on Dec. 2, 2012...So I rest knowing he will never be able to harm or kill anyone else again, sadly we know he took all his dirty secrets to his grave with him (or so he thought)....I know that is why I still remain on Webslueths trying to help and research so that someday many of his victims will be known and that some family members can have some type of peace or closure knowning where their loved ones are or what happened to them..

Stay Strong...He is gone from this earth!!!!

 

[Sillybilly]

Wondering if you could posts the Letter or Note found in Lyle's room and then put Keyes Suicide note alongside of that???....Would love to see comparisons on certain letters in both notes, in moo I see some of the same curves in some of the letters that is in Keyes suicide note...TIA

<rsbm>

IMO, the problem with trying to compare the note in the Stevik case to Keyes' suicide ramblings is IK's suicide note is written with only 1 printed word "THROUGH"; the Stevik note is the 1 printed word "SUICIDE". Not even one printed letter is the same for comparison purposes.

Oddly enough, IMO the printing in the Stevik note "SUICIDE" more closely resembles the printing on the Gidget envelope that Lucky 1 and digndoodle were discussing as possibly related to Keyes (re the Thomas Wales cold case > Keyes possibly using the alias Heyes in relation to the outlaw Hannibal Heyes character):

Gidget envelope
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2006/april/image/envelope_vegas.jpg

Stevik note
http://s40.photobucket.com/user/docwho3/media/lyle/suicd1.jpg.html

 

[digndoodle]

<rsbm>

IMO, the problem with trying to compare the note in the Stevik case to Keyes' suicide ramblings is IK's suicide note is written with only 1 printed word "THROUGH"; the Stevik note is the 1 printed word "SUICIDE". Not even one printed letter is the same for comparison purposes.

Oddly enough, IMO the printing in the Stevik note "SUICIDE" more closely resembles the printing on the Gidget envelope that Lucky 1 and digndoodle were discussing as possibly related to Keyes (re the Thomas Wales cold case > Keyes possibly using the alias Heyes in relation to the outlaw Hannibal Heyes character):

Gidget envelope
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2006/april/image/envelope_vegas.jpg

Stevik note
http://s40.photobucket.com/user/docwho3/media/lyle/suicd1.jpg.html

Thanks sillybilly, Lucky1 and I was comparing the letters and shapes a while back....Lyle's known address on this letter or note was traced back to a motel if I remember correctly just as the note Lucky1 and I was comparing in that one particular case.....It was a false address just as in Lyle's note....that is what I found odd, seems we have someone addressing envelopes with "fake" addresses so they can never be truly traced back to any original address the person may have come from nor lived.....But I sure can't dismiss Lyle as being one of Keyes victims...this would have been early in his killing spree's and I feel there may have been a specific reason why Lyle's body was discovered in the room and not disposed of as most of his other known victims were...IK would not have had all the skill behind his belt at this early age.....Or this thought also crossed my mind, in the last known investigation tapes, Keyes talked about how he wanted to start using churches to kill in and just leave the victims in plain sight so the church members would walk in and see the awful crime that had been done, in my mind that would have added so much to his enjoyment to know even after he had killed and etc. that he could look forward to that Sunday knowing that there would be another piece added to a crime and that would have been the church members walking in and finding a murdered victim.......In Lyle's case, maybe he thought that would be an added thrill for him to let the housekeeper find his body hanging there.....
That is why I DO NOT think Keyes had the MO of not killing kids....IMO....it would not have mattered to him if children would have been with their parents arriving at church, only to discover a dead victim laying there....Keyes was a cold-hearted ANIMAL...he was not human in anyway, his thoughts was not even near what any human would dare think about, he was sick sick sick

In case you have not read the Murder of Pastor Carol Daniels....I would advise you to journey on over to her thread........Foxfire has done a magnificent job in my mind searching, contacting, doing everything he can to try and get this case back in the public's view......I agree 100% with all Foxfire has said there, never had heard of this case until it was called to my attention, but when I learned Keyes professed Atheism, Satanism and etc.....and at the time this little town just seemed to fit IK searching for jobs in places that was often storm damaged badly...I say DEFINITELY YES on Pastor's death being IK

 

[YESorNO]

Thanks sillybilly, Lucky1 and I was comparing the letters and shapes a while back....Lyle's known address on this letter or note was traced back to a motel if I remember correctly just as the note Lucky1 and I was comparing in that one particular case.....It was a false address just as in Lyle's note....that is what I found odd, seems we have someone addressing envelopes with "fake" addresses so they can never be truly traced back to any original address the person may have come from nor lived.....But I sure can't dismiss Lyle as being one of Keyes victims...this would have been early in his killing spree's and I feel there may have been a specific reason why Lyle's body was discovered in the room and not disposed of as most of his other known victims were...IK would not have had all the skill behind his belt at this early age.....Or this thought also crossed my mind, in the last known investigation tapes, Keyes talked about how he wanted to start using churches to kill in and just leave the victims in plain sight so the church members would walk in and see the awful crime that had been done, in my mind that would have added so much to his enjoyment to know even after he had killed and etc. that he could look forward to that Sunday knowing that there would be another piece added to a crime and that would have been the church members walking in and finding a murdered victim.......In Lyle's case, maybe he thought that would be an added thrill for him to let the housekeeper find his body hanging there.....
That is why I DO NOT think Keyes had the MO of not killing kids....IMO....it would not have mattered to him if children would have been with their parents arriving at church, only to discover a dead victim laying there....Keyes was a cold-hearted ANIMAL...he was not human in anyway, his thoughts was not even near what any human would dare think about, he was sick sick sick

In case you have not read the Murder of Pastor Carol Daniels....I would advise you to journey on over to her thread........Foxfire has done a magnificent job in my mind searching, contacting, doing everything he can to try and get this case back in the public's view......I agree 100% with all Foxfire has said there, never had heard of this case until it was called to my attention, but when I learned Keyes professed Atheism, Satanism and etc.....and at the time this little town just seemed to fit IK searching for jobs in places that was often storm damaged badly...I say DEFINITELY YES on Pastor's death being IK

BBM I also think he killed Pastor Daniels.

 

[Foxfire]

Seems the IK discussion thread has slowed down quite a bit. Been working on a horrific crime in my home state of GA; the Dermond murders. Both in their late 80s, lived in a lakeside home in a gated community. He was decapitated and left in the garage of their 2 million dollar home and she was located 11 days later by a fisherman 5 miles up the lake. His head is still missing. A case that seemed cut and dry at first glance has morphed into a very intriguing case>http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ermond-88-Putnam-County-2-4-May-2014-8/page35
______________

Just dropped in to say, hope everyone is doing well and to say hey...and to share this link about a lady strangled/murdered 05/21/2014 in Utah. Seems that IK may possibly have a copycat.. Guess, they learn from each other, huh?

Posted by Colette - Registered User

Police identify woman found dead in Provo home, are considering case a homicide

Belen Perez, 60 strangled in Provo 5/21/14
Belen Perez was found by her son inside near the entryway of the home. She had been strangled and had bleach poured on her body and drain cleaner poured on her face. A neighbor who tried help had seen the crime scene.

&#8220;They had put liquid plumber on her head, obviously, cause it was all over the carpet and her face was covered in it,&#8221; she said.

There is no person of interest at this time.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?244616-Belen-Perez-60-strangled-in-Provo-5-21-14

 

[digndoodle]

Seems the IK discussion thread has slowed down quite a bit. Been working on a horrific crime in my home state of GA; the Dermond murders. Both in their late 80s, lived in a lakeside home in a gated community. He was decapitated and left in the garage of their 2 million dollar home and she was located 11 days later by a fisherman 5 miles up the lake. His head is still missing. A case that seemed cut and dry at first glance has morphed into a very intriguing case>http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ermond-88-Putnam-County-2-4-May-2014-8/page35
______________

Just dropped in to say, hope everyone is doing well and to say hey...and to share this link about a lady strangled/murdered 05/21/2014 in Utah. Seems that IK may possibly have a copycat.. Guess, they learn from each other, huh?

Posted by Colette - Registered User

Police identify woman found dead in Provo home, are considering case a homicide

Belen Perez, 60 strangled in Provo 5/21/14
Belen Perez was found by her son inside near the entryway of the home. She had been strangled and had bleach poured on her body and drain cleaner poured on her face. A neighbor who tried help had seen the crime scene.

&#8220;They had put liquid plumber on her head, obviously, cause it was all over the carpet and her face was covered in it,&#8221; she said.

There is no person of interest at this time.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?244616-Belen-Perez-60-strangled-in-Provo-5-21-14

Good to see you on here again Foxfire, I'm sure they all copy from each other, but this makes my head spin in a most un-natural way......Just wondering in my mind if perhaps this could
be why NO family members nor very close friends (if he truly had any) has come forth with really important info. on IK..???....Cannot prove this as I have said before and it might get taken down, but if what 1 person wrote in an inbox message, 1 family that IK was known to visit at certain times was known to have more than 1 killer in that family and he was seen very late at night walking in a snow storm and it was said he visited that family a couple of days before he was caught.....In my mind, this could be why everyone that knew him won't even budge on coming forth with any helpful information....I feel they are very afraid some of his buddies might carry on what IK probably would have done...but you are correct...sounds like a mini IK has come on the scene again and doing almost the very ways he would have carried a crime out

I had not heard of the Dermond Murders, so so sad!!!

 

[Foxfire]

Good to see you on here again Foxfire, I'm sure they all copy from each other, but this makes my head spin in a most un-natural way......Just wondering in my mind if perhaps this could
be why NO family members nor very close friends (if he truly had any) has come forth with really important info. on IK..???....Cannot prove this as I have said before and it might get taken down, but if what 1 person wrote in an inbox message, 1 family that IK was known to visit at certain times was known to have more than 1 killer in that family and he was seen very late at night walking in a snow storm and it was said he visited that family a couple of days before he was caught.....In my mind, this could be why everyone that knew him won't even budge on coming forth with any helpful information....I feel they are very afraid some of his buddies might carry on what IK probably would have done...but you are correct...sounds like a mini IK has come on the scene again and doing almost the very ways he would have carried a crime out

I had not heard of the Dermond Murders, so so sad!!!

<BBM for Focus>

It's worse than sad, digndoodle.. It is ungodly Evil... > UnGodly: A True Story of Unprecedented Evil: Bill Osinski ...http://www.amazon.com/UnGodly-True-Story-Unprecedented-Evil/dp/1934144134 ....

Many times, folks post about satanic cults may be involved when sleuthing crimes. Due to the rarity of cult involvement in homicides, although it does occur.
The Dermond murders are the first time that this is likely the culprit/s... but, it is not a Satanic cult per se.. It is likely the Nuwaubian cult' security force(the Mujahad), imo.. Motive is retribution by creating terror in the community, etc. The Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills & Justice system, sent their pedophile prophet/God; Dwight Malachi York to the Federal Super Max in Florence, CO, for 135 years for multiple(76) counts of child molestation(youngest 8 years old). It is estimated that DMY has 200+ illegitimate children. Joins us... We could use the help...

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...all-issues/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land
United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors Meets Its Match in Georgia
www.splcenter.org/.../savior-in-a-strange-la...
Southern Poverty Law Center
Dwight York and his black supremacist United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors launch an all-out ... A black supremacist cult leader meets his match in rural Georgia.


Found Deceased GA - Shirley Dermond, 87, Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2-4 May 2014 #8
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...unty-2-4-May-2014-8&highlight=shirley+dermond

Media Links
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...utnam-County-**Media-Links***NO-DISCUSSION***

 

[Backwoods]

I am not sure whether it has been noted anywhere in the IK threads that the author of the Acting at Random blog, which we have referenced frequently in these threads, announced in April that she is working on a BOOK about IK. So -- noting that here, in case it hasn't been brought up before.

A book should be interesting!

...4/18/14:
I am currently working on a book about Mr. Keyes. More information will appear here over time in regards to the progress and publication of the book....

from: http://israelkeyes.blogspot.com/

 

[Foxfire]

Bumping..

 

[Bootsctr]

I agree Backwoods that a book about Israel Keyes should be quite interesting. He seems such of an enigma to have had a relatively normal childhood, both parents. Why did he turn killer? I am grateful he was caught, but then to kill himself and leave so many questions for people with missing loved ones; Israel Keyes was the epitome of cruel.

 

[digndoodle]

I agree Backwoods that a book about Israel Keyes should be quite interesting. He seems such of an enigma to have had a relatively normal childhood, both parents. Why did he turn killer? I am grateful he was caught, but then to kill himself and leave so many questions for people with missing loved ones; Israel Keyes was the epitome of cruel.

Personally I will NEVER believe there was anything close to normal about IK in childhood nor as he grew into an adult...age 14--grandfather gave him a gun and as per IK last known investigation tapes released by FBI, he stated he also started breaking into homes around this age and also of doing arson to sometimes cover up any possible evidence he may have left behind.....I have said this time and time again on this thread there was just something that "STANK" in this family, None so far have come forth and even attempted to give some type of condolences to the families of his known 3 victims so far, nothing saying they are so sorry that one of their family members choose to do as he done and so much more
I know that no parent can help what their child does when they reach a certain age but he should have been still under their house rules from age 14 on up to 18 yrs old and he stated plainly that some of the kids that were with him in the woods when he tortued that family pet and then it died went back and told his parents and he got into trouble????????.....1st of all he should never had had a gun in his possession at this early age in my book and around other young kids, and that should have been a big RED LIGHT in the eyes of his parents they had a deeply disturbed child in their home and if this happened in my home, I would most definitely had a fear that perhaps this 1 child might harm my other kids, sadly we do not know what type of punishment if any he was given just for this one act alone...
and on the Church of Wells home page was one of his sisters testimony, telling how she had fallen into shameful sin at an early age, she also stated she had started to be an atheists or non-believer, but her father heard of this, got the family together and moved them clear across the US States, and if I am recalling correctly they became part of the Amish life there and she was thanking her father that he got her away from this sinful lifestyle she had choosen, but before all this happened, they turned IK out of the home also, he was not to have any communication with any of his siblings (and I know some have said this was often done by the Amish) but not 100% this family was living Amish in W. State at the time
There is just so many questions in my mind that will probably never be answered as like Why was IK turned out of the home at this particular time???.....he would have been around or close to the age he told he lured the young lady away from a group she was with and savagely raped her, but he let her go....in my mind I ask "Could this lady been someone whom her family maybe went to IK family and told them what had happened to her)??? perhaps the embarrassment was just too much for these parents to deal with and told him he was now on his own?? or could it have been the parents was afraid this would be reported and for some unknown reason along with IK, this family may have been caught up with the LE there???...probably will never know the answers to a lot of these questions

I sure hope the person writing the book has a lot of information on his childhood up into adulthood that has never been released, not that it would help any of his victims family's now, he was a big coward and choose to take the cowards way out, but I have read on some cold cases that are almost identical to some we know and some we have only discussed as possibilities that are so much like what we think IK's ways were, it gets scary when reading, if we did not know he was 100% dead, you could sure place some of these cases as possible victims...Makes me wonder way down deep if somewhere in the bloodline of IK's family there may have been another similiar to IK??....just hope the book will release a lot of new information soon

 

[Bootsctr]

So true about IK's family not coming forward. It could be for fear of retribution from the victims' families - especially Samantha Koenig's father. Of course, that should not stop them from issuing some kind of apology statement. I followed Samantha's case pretty closely and was shocked when IK was caught here in Texas only about 50 miles from where I live. Just had a bad feeling about her from the beginning when the film showed her in the coffee stand being held at gunpoint by Keyes. Rotten to the core. When you say something "STANK" in the family, are you referring to a "STANK" such as the Powell family - Josh Powell and his father Steven Powell?

I watched the 2 hour ID Dark Minds special on Keyes. It did bring up the incident with the family pet and how he killed it in front of other children. It said he didn't understand why they were so horrified and he thought it was funny. He was evil... and then to try to use his daughter as an excuse as not wanting her to grow up and read about him on the internet ??? Please. How about standing up and owning your evil deeds? When it got down to the ___-cutting, he showed just how big of a coward he was....

Always feel sick to my stomach when I think about him and his innocent victims, known (Bill and Lorraine Currier and Samantha Koenig) and the unknown.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

Days ago I made the shocking and unpleasant discovery that I had been in the same part of Wyoming as Israel Keyes in September 2011...I was horrified. Even worse I am familiar with this area so I realize that he must have done his homework & figured out the city was an ideal spot for him to indulge in his activities.

I also strongly suspect he is responsible for the disappearance of 2 females who disappeared in a state park in Washington State in either 2006 or 2007. I remember being deeply alarmed about this because I lived in NW Montana at the time & was worried about my personal safety.

 

[scoobydoobie]

"General discussion"

Anyone remember some source talking about keyes commenting on the AL Jazeera website? or about him commenting on other reporting websites?

 

[Backwoods]

Can anyone tell me when the "Acting at Random" blog about IK turned into a by-invitation-only deal? (And why ... though I'm thinking it MAY be because of the book the blogger has said she has in the works.)

 

[scoobydoobie]

That sucks, I liked that blog or whatever it was. Was a nice resource. Anyway, just thought I'd mention an idea I've had for a while. Keyes is quoted as saying he "killed a couple in washington". Most people interpreted this as he killed two people that were in a relationship, just like with the Curriers. But I always figured he just meant he had two kills, maybe not related. Sort of like he racked up a couple points in washington. Psycho. So I thought maybe he was referring to Gilbert Gilman and stephen mason.

And on another note...wondering if he killed thomas wales. I think it is interesting that wales' girlfriend at the time, Marlis DeJongh, was into marathons, just like gilbert gilman. I think I had found race results online that showed her and keyes had participated in the same race, but Im probably wrong on that (lots of vodka). I imagine if he was living in Neah bay and doing marathons he would have participated in the same races as her in Seattle.