I've Changed My Opinion

[U2forever]

SpeakForTheDead, I beLIEve your original post has to be the most backward, egotistical and judgmental post I have ever read.

How someone can judge the whole 'South' by simply living in Arkansas for a short period of time is beyond me.
Your description of Arkansas and the south in general as being, immoral, corrupt, crime ridden, superstitious, and ineffectual, just shows me how utterly Closed-Minded you are.

I personally have never been to Arkansas but I was born and lived most of my life in the south. Born and raised mainly in Georgia, I have lived in Cincinnati, Ohio and South Bend, Indiana.

I loved my time in Ohio as well as Notre Dame, Indiana, and would love to live there again someday. I have been many places in our great country (New York City also) and I loved every minute of everywhere I have been. To me, it's what you make of where you are.

Take care SFTD, and come back with your mind and heart open and you may never want to leave.
JMO

 

[TMartin49029]

Beautifully put, very to the point and staying within fact. I also believe that Damien isn't the very best of people, that doesn't mean he should be put to death or locked up for something that hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Mob mentality played a big role in this and the sad fact is that there has been no justice to those three little boys.

 

[TMartin49029]

Beautifully put, very to the point and staying within fact. I also believe that Damien isn't the very best of people, that doesn't mean he should be put to death or locked up for something that hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Mob mentality played a big role in this and the sad fact is that there has been no justice to those three little boys.

 

[Userid]

^ True, but in fairness, you could say the same about TH when it comes to "mob mentality" and having not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt; same with JMB before him. No one, including TH, would be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt in this case. Secondary transfer and the fact the heteroplasmy was allowed for one site change can't definitively "prove" TH's involvement and wouldn't be enough to convict him in a court of law, with regard to the hair; and the Ballard sighting would be torn apart by any defense lawyer. The bite mark evidence would also be refuted because it wasn't obtained by a qualified forensic odontologist, nor were any actual molds and/or the actual denture used. The dentist's video, as is, would be also be torn apart and akin to the grapefruit illustration the original prosecution used to show the dash markings by the lake knife -- but at least the prosecution had the actual source (the lake knife); the defense wouldn't even have that (the partial) at their disposal.

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

So all the evidence that the defense team brought forward would be torn apart. Perhaps all of this evidence was brought forward for the purpose of further investigation. Only the defense team could bring these things up because the prosecution has not investigated anything since '93. As far as "mob mentality" goes, I don't see anything that could be put in relation to what happened in '93.

 

[Userid]

Yeah, I actually think it's worse in TH's case than it ever was in the WM3's. In 93, you had the whole community against the WM3. Now, you've pretty much got an entire movement consisting of people from not only across America but across the world, due to the documentaries. Just an observation, of course. Granted, TH had never had to spend years on Death Row or in prison, but the court of public opinion is just as strong against him, if not worse.

And the prosecution wouldn't investigate because they won the case, obviously. If you're referring to the state, whether they are investigating or not is not entirely clear -- they've talked out of both sides of their mouth on the issue, unfortunately.

Quite honestly, I would love if the case was indeed open and I would even love to see TH on the stand, because then you would actually have an opposing side to refute the evidence against him and allow people to clearly see both sides (not just one).

 

[Compassionate Reader]

There's also TH's Pasdar deposition to consider. He has lied more times than DE! The fact of the matter is that, even though it is not sufficient to convict, the hair for which TH is most likely the donor remains the single piece of physical evidence that can link (however tenuously) someone to these murders. I just find secondary transfer unlikely given the location in which the hair was recovered. The three wrongfully convicted men were convicted on much less! Since TH has never been considered a suspect by LE, I believe that the case should be reopened and TH should be properly investigated. Until that happens, I will consider him to be the most likely perpetrator.

 

[Graznik]

First off, there's pretty much not a movement left. Nearly everyone packed up and left with the Alford pleas, and that's "fine". So at this point in time, TH does not have a massive community or global movement against him. Furthermore, I ain't got the first clue about how any allegations has affected TH in his day to day life. But as he has done precious little to refute any allegations (like, say, JMB did) I would assume he gets on just fine.

And on a side note, I find it incredibly sad that, a lot of the times, prosecutors don't seem interested in justice in the slightest. As if it's just some sadistic game. :/

 

[Userid]

There's also TH's Pasdar deposition to consider. He has lied more times than DE! The fact of the matter is that, even though it is not sufficient to convict, the hair for which TH is most likely the donor remains the single piece of physical evidence that can link (however tenuously) someone to these murders. I just find secondary transfer unlikely given the location in which the hair was recovered. The three wrongfully convicted men were convicted on much less! Since TH has never been considered a suspect by LE, I believe that the case should be reopened and TH should be properly investigated. Until that happens, I will consider him to be the most likely perpetrator.

Absolutely: the WM3 were convicted on much less -- no arguments there. But two wrongs do not make a right, CR. The hair evidence would not and should not be enough to convict TH in a court of law right now.

I can understand your need to consider him your top suspect; we all have our top suspect(s) in this case, so I can respect that, even though I disagree with your reasoning behind it.

As I said, I would also like to see TH fully investigated, but in general, I would simply like to see this case re-opened, period.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Absolutely: the WM3 were convicted on much less -- no arguments there. But two wrongs do not make a right, CR. The hair evidence would not and should not be enough to convict TH in a court of law right now.

I can understand your need to consider him your top suspect; we all have our top suspect(s) in this case, so I can respect that, even though I disagree with your reasoning behind it.

As I said, I would also like to see TH fully investigated, but in general, I would simply like to see this case re-opened, period.

BBM

However, the hair isn't the only reason I have TH at the top of my suspect list. It was the first indication of his possible involvement and the reason I began to consider him as culpable. As you said, much more evidence would be needed to convict him, and the case, therefore, needs to be reopened. That should include a thorough investigation of TH, IMO, as its first priority!

 

[Userid]

What's BBM mean?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

BBM = Bolded by me

 

[SpeakForTheDead]

I apologize if my personal experiences in Arkansas have upset some. They remain my experiences, however. It's not like I wanted these experiences, that's simply what occurred. It's kind of hard to respond because I find some of the responses to my post to be over-the-top. For instance, you may disagree with me about the conclusions I draw about Arkansas, but it doesn't make my comments the most egoistical ever.

So with that said, I apologize for my comments about the South and wish the South the best of luck.

Hopefully focus on the West Memphis III can be restored.

 

[dogmatica]

SpeakForTheDead - your opening post was well written and thought out, and absolutely correct.

What I find so confounding when it comes to supporters - is that they will cry that Jessie was "coerced" into confessing. Yet they dismiss the fact that he confessed multiple times, when his lawyer literally begged him to stop confessing - yet he wouldn't. So by their logic - Jessie could be "coerced" into confessing to something he didn't do by people he didn't trust, but could NOT be "coerced" into NOT confessing (something that is in his best interest, don't ya think?) by someone he DOES trust. And Jessie was no rocket scientist, but he's not borderline retarded as the supporters would have you believe. He was smart enough to be able to continue to articulate his guilt, against the wishes of his attorney, LONG after the threat of "coercion" was long, long gone.

How they are able to reconcile that in their own minds is incomprehensible and just plain ridiculous.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

One more time, JM's IQ means that he is highly susceptible to "suggestion" - especially from those who he sees as authority figures. Initially, he didn't trust his attorneys and thought they were working for the police. That's why he initially told them the same story he told the police.

As to the so-called "second confession," it must be remembered that a mere nine days prior to that statement, JM had talked with his attorney (who he trusted at this point) and the so-called "hand on the Bible" statement was the result. However, it must be remembered that at that time JM did not make a statement to LE. Also, the "hand on the Bible" statement was not made public until much later - during Rule 37 proceedings, IIRC.

We must ask ourselves, "What happened during those nine days?" IMO, and DS (JM's original lead attorney) confirms this, JM was continually pressured (coerced) by those in authority over him to testify against DE and JB. JM saw these people on a daily basis, and IMO they convinced him to believe that DS was no longer "helping" him and that they could help him, if he would implicate DE. The so-called "second confession" was the result - and it was error-filled as were the others! I don't care how many times JM "confesses" if his statements don't make sense, they are useless!

DS and his partner were only given about five minutes to talk to JM before the statement was made. Again, we should ask ourselves, "Why was this statement so rushed?" IMO, the logical conclusion is that LE officials were afraid that, if DS had been given ample time with JM, he would once again have convinced JM not to make the statement.

Bottom line, once JM was allowed to talk with his father, who told JM to tell the truth, JM refused to testify against DE and JB. Since talking to his father, JM has maintained his innocence to this day. So, contrary to your conclusion, the coercion continued and was NEVER "long, long gone" as you opine.

 

[Userid]

If he was scared of his own lawyers, maybe he was scared to testify against the two because he thought something bad would happen to either him or his family.

No one in the police car "suggested" anything to him. I'd argue that no one suggested anything to him at all, but particularly in that scenario, the driver and his partner didn't need to suggest anything: the trial for JM was already over, and JM still confessed.

 

[dogmatica]

One more time, JM's IQ means that he is highly susceptible to "suggestion" - especially from those who he sees as authority figures.

One more time - if he was so "highly susceptible to suggestion", he wouldn't have continued to confess, even after his lawyer "suggested", nay, demanded that he cease confessing. I watched many interviews with Jessie and read many as well. He is not nearly as stupid as you make him out to be. Yeah, he's a dumbass. But he's not some zombie who just gets manipulated by anyone into anything. And again, if he was, his lawyers and all the other people insisting he stop confessing would have been able to convince him to do so. You can't have it both ways. You can't insist that Jessie just said what he was told by one camp, but then not by the other - especially when the second camp was acting in his best interest.

JM's refusal to testify against DE and JB means nothing. He confessed over and over. That's a fact. "Once again" - if he was so utterly susceptible to coercion - he would have stopped confessing when his lawyer demanded he do so.

And if you're going to continue to claim to be some authority on troubled teenagers, I'm going to pull the same thing - because I actually was one. I listened to Metallica and Slayer, had long hair, wore all black and was alienated. Of course I didn't have the psychotic rap sheet DM did - so I can't relate there. But I don't think that helps your case, now does it?

 

[missy_g]

Is that your only evidence? DE psych reports and a confession that wasn't even admissible during DEs and JBs trial but was brought up on deliberations anyway??


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[dogmatica]

Is that your only evidence? DE psych reports and a confession that wasn't even admissible during DEs and JBs trial but was brought up on deliberations anyway??


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No, "my evidence" includes all that as well as all the other evidence that was used to convict the 3 child killers in a court of law. Don't ask me to recite that, it's all there in the trial transcripts, all over this site and in countless other places.

Nons have this down pat - they take one piece of (incredibly inflammatory) evidence and espouse the same thing over and over: "that by itself does NOT PROVE GUILT!!!". Yes, we've heard you. It's the accumulation of ALL of the evidence put together that proves, beyond a reasonable doubt (as they all acquiesced to by taking the Alford Plea) that they killed those little boys, and would convict them again if there was a new trial. But there never will be a new trial, because the West Memphis 3 plead GUILTY to the murders. And, 4 years post release, they have yet to present this smoking gun that both proves their innocence and proves who the real killer is.

Think really hard about all that for a second before you close your mind and get manipulated by the lies and misdirection again.

If there was someone else who committed these crimes, the WM3 would have been (actually) exonerated long ago. They never, ever will be, because they are guilty of this crime.I know it's hard to swallow, but it's the truth.

ETA: not "a confession". MANY confessions, some POST CONVICTION and against the demands of his defense attorney. One confession? OK - maybe you can argue coercion. Many confessions after his own lawyer begged him not to? You just simply cannot sweep that under the rug. You just can't. And if you do - you're in denial.

 

[Userid]

It's the accumulation of ALL of the evidence put together that proves, beyond a reasonable doubt (as they all acquiesced to by taking the Alford Plea) that they killed those little boys, and would convict them again if there was a new trial.

To be fair, you can't prove the bolded part of this sentence. That is why the State agreed to the Alford plea also. The State would have had a huge upward battle, 20 years after the fact.

But I can agree with the first part of the sentence: that the WM3 were convicted based on all of the evidence that was presented -- not just the "satanic cult" angle -- but all of the evidence. The injustice was, that the original jury took into account the JM confession. That rightfully should have never been allowed in deliberation, and arguably, didn't even need to be introduced. Honestly, if that never was, I don't think the WM3 would have ever gotten out of prison -- and it was not only unethical but utterly stupid for the foreman to introduce that. If the jury needed that to convict (which I don't necessarily believe they did, but I digress), then they should have never found DE and/or JB guilty.