JAG Armchair Psych Profile Family Dynamics

Discussion in 'Chelsea King' started by JBean, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. TravelingBug

    TravelingBug Verified Insider

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    Ex-friend says Gardner told her he was sexually abused


    (CBS 8) - A former friend of John Gardner's has come forward with shocking revelations about his past.

    Jennifer Brandt and John Gardner weren't close in high school, but became friends after. The got so close then, according to Brandt, that at one point he felt the need to tell her a deep dark secret.
     


  2. Curious Me

    Curious Me Long-Time Member from back in the day

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    I agree with whoever said it in a previous post that Gardner is a known liar and blamer, so I'm going to have to figure out if it is true. He probably believes he was, but did it?

    Axis IV having to do with his psychological support system is under question now. Did I learn correctly, HerdingCats?
     
  3. Herding Cats

    Herding Cats New Member

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    SED= Severely Emotionally Disturbed/Disabled (depending on who you talk to), and allows for classification into Special Ed classes (and sometimes SSI disability payments). There are reports that JAG was in special education classes (or special needs classes), and this would qualify for that.

    As for why hospitalization (in a psychiatric facility) would lead to that, it's something which allows JAG to continue his education; the State of CA has many avenues which allow a child with challenges to continue to be educated in a public classroom, and a psychiatric hospitalization with a diagnosis of SED would allow for that education to continue in a public high school, such as he attended.

    Now...bear in mind that I don't know why he was hospitalized...but I'm willing to bet a donut that it had to do with physical violence, assault (perhaps sexual), and/or a combination thereof. His mother had him hospitalized, which leads me to believe the episode occurred at "home" (if it were in a public place, the police would've called, and it would have been an involuntary hospitalization or arrest).

    Hope that clears things up a bit...this part of JAGs life is so murky, and because he was a minor at the time, information about it is very slim (none)...so I'm completely blue-skying here. But this does seem to fit the pattern.

    Best-
    Herding Cats
     
  4. Herding Cats

    Herding Cats New Member

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    I'd say it's an impulse control problem inasmuch as he decides to "see who he can find", and then, if the opportunity presents itself, he strikes. Very different from some other serial killers who create the opportunity by entering a dwelling (Nightstalker), setting up a ruse to lure someone (Bundy), or grooming someone over time (innumerable pedophiles). From what I can see, he doesn't create the situation; rather, he takes advantage of the situation presented to him (the original conviction; Amber; Chelsea; and who knows who else). All were in a place where he saw the opportunity, and he took it...while he placed himself in the area of opportunity (by driving by school, hanging at the park), he didn't break and enter, nor elaborately plan a kidnapping, nor groom his victims. Those take a more organized, less impulsive personality than he seems to have.

    I don't think the defense will try to use impulsivity as a defense, and if they do, without an organic issue in his frontal lobes, it will fail miserably. We all 'want' to do things, and we all have impulsive things happen (how'd that chocolate get into my shopping cart??), but the level of his impulsivity is not going to get him out of this.

    And if the prosecution is good, they will use this as a bolster in his MO...opportunity presents, he strikes. That leaves very little time to 'prevent' things by "thinking about it", and presents a clear and present danger to the public at large whenever he's free.

    Hope that helps clarify my thoughts on it...

    Best-
    Herding Cats
     
  5. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    Impulsivity is certainly associated with bipolar I.
    not sayng he is, just adding another check in the bipolar column LOL.
     
  6. eyes4crime

    eyes4crime Go Chicago Bears!

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    Seems to me he went out cruising for his victims - with different cars, different looks, different mo's, different counties as a RSO. Do you think all those differences happened by pure coincidence or did he plan it that way? TIA
     
  7. Herding Cats

    Herding Cats New Member

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    I totally agree - impulsivity can be a large part of diagnosis of BP, not disagreeing there. Just wondering if he indeed has an axis one diagnosis, or if axis two is the only place that he can really be put.

    (and then, see, I have to ask myself - why do I very much not want him to be BP? Because that would mean that the first shrink was wrong in not diagnosing it; it would mean that some of my friends are perhaps capable of something like this [I know, I know...]. I've been asking why I don't want him to be BP, and I am still not sure; but self examination is always good...).

    He may indeed be BP; and I'm still not sure. I would sooooooooo love to get my hands on some of the psychiatrists' reports, but that isn't going to happen...

    Best-
    Herding Cats
     
  8. Herding Cats

    Herding Cats New Member

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    Eyes, I get your point. I think I'm talking about a very grey area...different MOs would absolutely support the opportunity issue, and so would different cars. Whatever car he had handy at the moment, and whatever locale he found himself in, he was looking for victims. I think it was likely far more coincidental than plotted...I don't see a lot of planning here at all. Yes, he had a gun (if the Lake Elsinore attempt was him; I believe it was). But he seems to be the kind to carry a gun a lot of the time.

    I think he often woke up and said "hm. Let's see what I can find..." rather than set up a different car, a different haircut/color, a different location. I don't think he was quite that forward thinking; I think it really was far more impulse than plotting.

    As for his different counties as an RSO, he did attack where he was registered...and since he had "homes" in both SD and Riverside county, I think it was more 'convenient' than not, rather than saying 'hrm, I assaulted in SD yesterday, let's see what Riverside has for me'. It speaks more to a trigger setting him off, and him going off pretty quickly, rather than a lengthy time planning, putting something together, stalking a victim, and then assaulting her.

    It's a very grey area, to be sure. I just don't see him sitting back for a few weeks, thinking things through, and then acting on a plan in an organized, logical manner (like Bundy, like Nightstalker, like many, many others).

    Best-
    Herding Cats
     
  9. Curious Me

    Curious Me Long-Time Member from back in the day

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    http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Premeditated+murder

    "Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.

    State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder. Premeditated murder is usually defined as one of the most serious forms of homicide, and is punished more severely than manslaughter or other types of murder."
     
  10. Herding Cats

    Herding Cats New Member

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    Not disagreeing with you - and in California, I believe it is mere seconds. I think what I'm talking about is less legal definition, and more of a comment towards psych makeup and motivation.

    Let's take the car issue as an example. It can be argued that he 'borrowed' this or that car as a way to conceal himself while committing his crimes; that's "planning", right?

    I think, however, that he used whatever car he had handy; his own, his gf, whatever had gas and was driveable. He just took the car, without thinking about the repercussions, and used it in his crimes. That's opportunistic.

    Same thing with Chelsea. He may have seen her before; he is known to have lurked the park for a while, and she apparently ran there regularly. If he had searched her out - looked specifically for her - I'd go with the planning aspect. But it appears she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time - she was alone, running in an isolated park. He took her, killed her, and then had to contend with getting away with it (and we know he didn't).

    It's not that it's not premeditated; rather, it's not planned, I suppose is what I'm trying to say.

    It's not part of his psych makeup to resist impulse. He doesn't have any apparent ability to make a plan, set a goal, and achieve it. He lives a lot by the seat of his pants, you know? And I think he commits his crimes the same way...not by planning and plotting, but by impulse and opportunity. He doesn't create the opportunity (e.g. breaking and entering), but he does take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself (in whatever car he happens to be cruising in).

    Does that make my thought more clear?

    Best-
    Herding Cats
     
  11. justsomeinfo

    justsomeinfo New Member

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    Okay, checked the yearbook, and I remember her now. She is definitely someone who knew John well.
     
  12. eyes4crime

    eyes4crime Go Chicago Bears!

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    JAG hung around schools and running paths in the woods - he purposely placed himself around young, vulnerable girls. Bundy lured his victims, but mostly, brunets with long hair parted in the middle, much like his first girlfriend. To me, the attraction factor is there for both but the 'lure' aspect seems quite different..and both patterns seem pre-meditated. MOO
     
  13. Leila

    Leila Active Member

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    This is a very reasonable and logical explanation. Thanks!
     
  14. Curious Me

    Curious Me Long-Time Member from back in the day

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  15. Ghostwheel

    Ghostwheel Pyrrhonist

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    Sorry, I deleted my post when I figure out what SED meant. Special Ed doesn't mean SED only, so since he claimed ADHD, that is also classification for Special Ed (as are a bazillion other classifications, including things like dyslexia, which, in general, have no violent aspects associated with it). That's what I was trying to figure out, since I did not see where he was diagnosed as Severely Emotionally Disturbed/Disabled (not saying he isn't, just that I didn't see an official diagnosis anywhere).

    Pet peeve, grouping all different types of classifications into "Special Ed". That's the school system for you, though.

    Edited to add: It seemed like the word "Special Ed" was being used as if that were an explanation for why JAG is like he is ("Well, he was in special ed. Proves he's messed up.") So roll with me if I interpreted it wrong. You see why I was having a problem with it.
     
  16. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    Hi HC, good post.

    IMO and as you know,true bipolar I is very difficult to diagnose. So, I totally understand why it may have not been diagnosed.
    But even having said that,I have no idea if this is or isn't an accurate diagnosis. but I am saying that a lot of the behavior we have heard about is classic bipolar I.
     
  17. Mick

    Mick Former Member

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    The reports JAG had times of feeling 'invincible' might indicate manic phases of BP....not sure if he also has depressive phases.

    Like HC, I'd like to read his psych reports too, but the likelyhood of that is slim to none.
     
  18. tvscum

    tvscum Member

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    CBS 8 San Diego:

    MP3 audio of interview:
    http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/jennifer_brandt.mp3

    Ex-friend: Gardner sexually abused and suicidal over breakup

    (CBS 8) - A former close friend of accused killer John Gardner has come forward with shocking revelations about his past.
    Jennifer Brandt and Gardner weren't close in high school, but became friends shortly after they graduated from the Class of 1997 at Rim of the World high school near Lake Arrowhead, California.
    "

    http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12131701
     
  19. Brwnigirl

    Brwnigirl Former Member

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    Would really like to see the high school picture of Jennifer Tripp.
     
  20. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    OH this is more classic bipolar imo. Invincibility and delusions of grandeur are not uncommon traits. The friend said he had high highs and low lows so I would guess he had the depressive phase.
    I wonder if he had delusions of being "wanted" by girls and that is part of his profile. IOW, he was such a great lover or so highly desireable that certainly these girls wanted him. Coupled with no impulse control to stop when he started it, these traits can lead to rape and murder,imo.
     

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