James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation

[DeeDee249]

I am still unsure about the paintbrush insertion. If there were only splinters, they may have been on the finger that was inserted in the sexual abuse. There has been speculation over the years that the actual missing piece of the brush was found inside her. We do not know this as fact. I can't believe this wouldn't have been leaked over the years, though I do know that LE do keep some things secret in an unsolved crime like this- something only persons present at the crime would know about. Sill- I have a hard time wondering why that missing piece is missing.
As far as where they body was found....yes, it is true she could have been left in her bed and it might have been a more convincing "kidnapping" scenario, but remember BR's room was right down the hall. Whether he was involved or not, the R's wanted to present him as NOT having seen or heard a thing. And I don't think they would have wanted him to see her corpse the way she looked at that point. So she was hidden in the most inaccessible room in he house.
I know not many agree with my theory, but I feel she was hidden there to prevent her from being found by LE in a search of the house. I feel sure the Rs felt the police would leave them alone in the house when their investigation was complete. With BR out of the house at the White's, they could have then decided how to explain her "return" or to explain that her body was there in the house all along and had not been found. Not many people unfamiliar with the house knew that room was there or would have been able to find it. But FW did. JR did not know about FW's early visit to the basement- so when he found out, and also realized police were NOT leaving, he had to find her himself before they would have been forced to leave the house themselves.

 

[Chelly]

If only Patsy hadn't made that darn 911 call. We can only imagine.........

 

[Chrishope]

UKGuy and Chrishope:
I've a question for you both.


If there had been no ongoing sexual abuse of JB, would you revise your theories?

Thanks
C.

Well, we'd still have a RN, which I'd infer was not written by a genuine kidnapper, but rather by the murderer or an accomplice, the murderer/accomplice being one of the surviving Ramseys.

I'd still have to infer that the purpose of a fake RN is to stage a fake kidnap scenario. Not to stage a sex murder, or a revenge murder.

It seems reasonable to infer that the purpose of a fake kidnap scenario is to explain the disappearance of someone. It could also, later, explain her death. Patently, the kidnap scenario can't explain her death if she hasn't been kidnapped. Nor can a fake kidnapping explain her disappearance if she hasn't disappeared. A kidnapping is not plausible with the body in the house.

All in all, I'd have to infer that the original plan was to dump the body.
Since the kidnapping "gone wrong" scenario doesn't seem very plausible (I think most of us are agreed so I'll skip the details) I'd have to assume that the police wouldn't find it plausible either. I'd further have to assume that the killer and/or accomplice(s) would also realize it's not very convincing. So I'd have to infer that the original plan was to dump the body somewhere, making the fake kidnapping minimally plausible.

This plan could have been changed. It could have been interrupted. It could have been passed on, in favor of plan B. However, the kidnapping aspect was not altogether abandoned. JB is not staged in her bed - the victim of a sexual predator. She is hidden in the WC, with size 12 panties and longjohns on, so there is not evidence of sexual activity until the autopsy. There is still a RN. So the kidnapping scenario appears to me to have been interrupted rather than abandoned. I would think changing plans would require changing the note, or eliminating the note, yet it remains a RN, and the body remains hidden and redressed. Why would a kidnapper do that? Why would a stagger do that? It really looks like the plan was foiled rather than changed.

I'd infer that if JR and PR were working together, for whatever reason, there is really nothing to prevent them from dumping the body. Yet that isn't what happened. PR made the 911 call, so why would she do that if she was JR's accomplice? Given that there is apparently still a kidnap scenario in play, a scenario which makes little to no sense with the body present, I think it's more sensible to infer that PR was not an accomplice.

So, no, I wouldn't change my theory.

I would wonder why she was killed if there were no chronic abuse.

 

[Chrishope]

I have to agree with UK Guy on this one.
I don't think examining the Ransom Note gives you any clues to the crime, other than answering who wrote it and therefore who was involved in the crime.

Actually who wrote it cannot be determined from the RN itself. The handwriting "analysis" has been the least valuable aspect of examining the note.

But it does provide us with a way to start making sense of the case.

It's all garbage written to confuse law enforcement.

It's all garbage, in the sense that it's a fake RN written by one of the 3 Ramseys who didn't die that night.

It did manage to confuse LE, but then, most everything about the case seemed to confuse LE.

But it's not much of a stretch to make some sensible inferences about the note.

Why would a murderer write a fake RN? To stage a fake kidnapping. That inference doesn't lead us astray, it leads us to think rationally about the crime.

What does a fake kidnapping accomplish? One thing it accomplishes is it explains why someone has gone missing. Another is an explanation for her death.

I'd suggest these are very reasonable (to my mind wholly uncontroversial) inferences.

The fact that the RN is staged is no reason not to make reasonable well grounded inferences. In all probability, the RN was written by the murderer or his accomplice. It makes sense then to infer what the author's intent was.

But then I believe most of the crime scene is also like that.

To me some elements are confusing, others seem straightforward enough.

The sexual abuse is now an important aspect as the timing of it tells us whether it was part of the staging.

The violence of it tells us it was staging.

I need to go through the threads here to see if I can find all the information as to over what time period it is supposed to have occurred, but I was still under the impression that the injuries on the dead JBR were not the first, but that the first had taken place relatively recently. I haven't read that it was anything more than a recent event.

I'm not sure it has been, or can be, established when the abuse began. Maybe someone knows ?

Just to answer Chelly's question - If there was no prior sexual abuse, and by prior, I mean more than a day before, then I would suggest that it is clearly part of the staging, much like the note, the pants, the garotte, the paintbrush etc.

If I understand what you are saying, you think lack of chronic abuse makes the acute abuse more likely to be staging? I would think it's the other way around. That is, I'd think if there was chronic abuse the acute would be more likely to be staging for the purpose of trying to hide the evidence of chronic abuse. Have I misunderstood you?

If there WAS prior abuse, and again, I mean in the days, weeks leading up to it, then it should in theory help point to the perpetrator, but doesn't change who I believe was involved.

There's no blood, semen, etc. Just injuries which could have been caused by any of them. If it was digital penetration which finger would do the most damage - an adult's, or a 9 year old's? If she was being abused by BR, and presumably didn't like it, what's the odds she wouldn't demand he stop and tell on him if he didn't? He's just a kid, he doesn't really have much power over her. It could have been PR, either for her own sexual satisfaction, or from corporal cleansing. All in all, it seems more likely, to me, it was JR.

 

[Chrishope]

I am still unsure about the paintbrush insertion. If there were only splinters, they may have been on the finger that was inserted in the sexual abuse. There has been speculation over the years that the actual missing piece of the brush was found inside her. We do not know this as fact. I can't believe this wouldn't have been leaked over the years, though I do know that LE do keep some things secret in an unsolved crime like this- something only persons present at the crime would know about. Sill- I have a hard time wondering why that missing piece is missing.
As far as where they body was found....yes, it is true she could have been left in her bed and it might have been a more convincing "kidnapping" scenario, but remember BR's room was right down the hall. Whether he was involved or not, the R's wanted to present him as NOT having seen or heard a thing. And I don't think they would have wanted him to see her corpse the way she looked at that point. So she was hidden in the most inaccessible room in he house.
I know not many agree with my theory, but I feel she was hidden there to prevent her from being found by LE in a search of the house. I feel sure the Rs felt the police would leave them alone in the house when their investigation was complete. With BR out of the house at the White's, they could have then decided how to explain her "return" or to explain that her body was there in the house all along and had not been found. Not many people unfamiliar with the house knew that room was there or would have been able to find it. But FW did. JR did not know about FW's early visit to the basement- so when he found out, and also realized police were NOT leaving, he had to find her himself before they would have been forced to leave the house themselves.

It's hard to see how the kidnapping scenario could be even less plausible than it already is, but finding her in her bed just might do it.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope,
You are not required to accept anyones conclusions on websleuths. You are free to cherrypick so to build your own theory.

Any conclusion I have reached regarding BR and the subject of molestation is based on premises that are evidence based, e.g. LHP walked in on BR allegedly playing doctors with JonBenet, i.e. prior behaviour. Also we have the nature of JonBenet's internal injuries, and the verbatim opinion from Coroner Meyer regarding Sexual Contact. These premises can be substantiated separately from any claims I wish to make about them.

In contrast DocG's theory is largely speculation using staged forensic evidence, i.e. some of the premises are patently flawed, so regardless of the form of your argument, any conclusions will be invalid.

Thats not to say you cannot arrive at the correct conclusion by invalid means, but it does not inspire confidence.

As I'm sure you know I reckon the case is either BDI or JDI in that order.

Also depending on how you interpret the forensic evidence another outcome is possible.


.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that staged evidence is not good evidence and that useful inferences can't be drawn from staged evidence. That of course isn't true.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

It's hard to see how the kidnapping scenario could be even less plausible than it already is, but finding her in her bed just might do it.

Yep, the R's had to pretend the murder scene was as far away from their bedroom as possible to explain why they didn't hear anything. Although if you look at cases where someone is killed in their own home at night (and I don't just mean cases where everyone else sleeps through it), they are almost always murdered in their beds.

Could the R's have just left JonBenet's body in her bed, and say someone murdered right her there? No RN...Just someone broke into their house to kill their child. There are people who break into homes just to murder the occupant(s). Maybe it was someone who wanted revenge against John or just some crazed lunatic? They could have a story about how they woke up, and saw him running out. Would a story like that work? Is that more far-fetched than the one we've been told?

 

[Chrishope]

Yep, the R's had to pretend the murder scene was as far away from their bedroom as possible to explain why they didn't hear anything. Although if you look at cases where someone is killed in their own home at night (and I don't just mean cases where everyone else sleeps through it), they are almost always murdered in their beds.

Could the R's have just left JonBenet's body in her bed, and say someone murdered right her there? No RN...Just someone broke into their house to kill their child. There are people who break into homes just to murder the occupant(s). Maybe it was someone who wanted revenge against John or just some crazed lunatic? They could have a story about how they woke up, and saw him running out. Would a story like that work? Is that more far-fetched than the one we've been told?

The killer could have tried a story like that, but he (they) didn't. He tried the kidnapping gambit, evidenced by the RN.


But what we end with is a weird mixture of kidnapping and someone broke in and molested and killed their child. With the body in the house they might as well have left her in her bed. The kidnapping gone wrong is implausible. ST doesn't believe it, preferring an RDI theory. Kolar doesn't believe it, preferring an RDI theory. CASKU doesn't believe it, preferring an RDI theory. LS claims to believe it, but I suspect he was not acting true to his beliefs.

So was the killer and/or accomplice unable to fathom what other people find plausible?

 

[bettybaby00]

Yep, the R's had to pretend the murder scene was as far away from their bedroom as possible to explain why they didn't hear anything. Although if you look at cases where someone is killed in their own home at night (and I don't just mean cases where everyone else sleeps through it), they are almost always murdered in their beds.

Could the R's have just left JonBenet's body in her bed, and say someone murdered right her there? No RN...Just someone broke into their house to kill their child. There are people who break into homes just to murder the occupant(s). Maybe it was someone who wanted revenge against John or just some crazed lunatic? They could have a story about how they woke up, and saw him running out. Would a story like that work? Is that more far-fetched than the one we've been told?

The only thing I can say is that judging by past behavior, if the Rs are involved, it's gonna seem "far fetched!" :scared:

 

[Tricia]

Did he say that?
I didn't think he did. He simply said (on the show at least) that the "contact point" took place in the kitchen. From that, I took it that he meant the beginning of the "incident" or events which lead to JBR's death.

Whether that resulted in the crime taking place in the kitchen or in the basement wasn't really covered. It was just that the contact point he's claiming took place in the kitchen and presumably involved the pineapple given it seems to be the last thing she did while she was alive if we look at timing of when it had to have been consumed and the timing of death which came some time after the head bash.

No?

I took the discussion to mean the same thing as you Wonderllama.

He was offering a theory. That's all.

 

[Tricia]

In my opinion the ignorant fake ransom note compares favorably to the ignorant fake molestation with a paint brush handle. Both were staged by someone desperate who thought they were clever but in reality didn't know what they were doing.

The crime scene seemed to be set up by someone who was trying to think like a criminal. IMO. That's why you have so many attempted elements of a crime.

They were trying to make the crime look like:

A kidnapping with a ransom attached
A sexual attack
Kidnapping related to John Ramsey's business
A Foreign Faction

All great elements of a crime but put together it shows a very unsophisticated attempt to look like a criminal mind was behind the death of JonBenet

 

[UKGuy]

You seem to be under the misapprehension that staged evidence is not good evidence and that useful inferences can't be drawn from staged evidence. That of course isn't true.

Chrishope,
Of course not. The rules of inference are amended for your theory naturally.

Its a basic assumption in logic that from a sound premise a valid conclusion may be drawn.

In your case and DocG's theory specifically many of your premises are not sound they rely on staged forensic evidence, which have been deliberately introduced to confuse you.

As I mentioned before you are welcome to make as many inferences as you like, but if they are based on flawed, i.e. staged premises then any conclusions you reach might be similarly flawed.

.

 

[UKGuy]

The crime scene seemed to be set up by someone who was trying to think like a criminal. IMO. That's why you have so many attempted elements of a crime.

They were trying to make the crime look like:

A kidnapping with a ransom attached
A sexual attack
Kidnapping related to John Ramsey's business
A Foreign Faction

All great elements of a crime but put together it shows a very unsophisticated attempt to look like a criminal mind was behind the death of JonBenet

Tricia,
One of the R's then changed their mind and decided a sexual assault was one step too far, so cleaned up JonBenet, redressed her in size-12's and longjohns, wrapping her in a blanket.

 

[madeleine]

this is what I don't get....you either stage it to look like a kidnapping gone wrong or to look like a sexual assault (crazy pedo)...why both?one contradicts the other and makes it more suspicious and not genuine.

okay,the R's were amateurs but they weren't stupid people

dunno if I can buy this,that the sexual assault was pure staging,sorry

 

[madeleine]

This is not the first nor the only case I've been following....but I just can't believe it....we are not in 1920....we have technology fgs now...
I can't blame the R's nor their lawyers for the following...we don't have an exact COD...we don't have an exact TOD...we don't know who wrote the note (sorry,I need more than those wanna be experts)...we don't have a murder weapon...we don't have crucial evidence tested (spoon in the pineapple bowl for saliva for ex)...I mean,wth were/still are these people doing?are they really WORKING on this case or just waiting (duh) for that stupid DNA match?
yes,mistakes have been made (like Meyer at the crime scene for ex,he didn't test dunno what re the TOD)...still...you have a lot to work with IF you really want to

 

[madeleine]

:clap: wtg LE and family :clap:

http://www.fbi.gov/news/videos/latent-hit-of-the-year-2011-texas-1
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/october/print_101411


this case really touched me and IMO this is how innocent family members act,this brother NEVER gave up!not even with the prints being missing/ misplaced and the crime scene photos gone....

 

[bettybaby00]

this is what I don't get....you either stage it to look like a kidnapping gone wrong or to look like a sexual assault (crazy pedo)...why both?one contradicts the other and makes it more suspicious and not genuine.

okay,the R's were amateurs but they weren't stupid people

dunno if I can buy this,that the sexual assault was pure staging,sorry

I've said before, between staging and undoing the crime defies logic. However, for me these two things do point to family involvement.

if an intruder did it, and we suppose they're "inexperienced" they are still not going to bother to stage and undo the crime scene. A kidnapper either leaves a note and takes the child--even if accidental death occurs during the kidnapping--they don't leave both.

A sick sexual perpetrator, isn't likely to undo the crime scene out of remorse. Nor is he going to bother staging a kidnapping in an effort to hide the assault.

In either instance, the perpetrator's main concern is not getting caught. It's highly unlikely that after they kill they woild be concerned with staging and/or undoing the crime.

Staging and undoing point to remorse/guilt of one's actions. The only other perpetrator outside of family who might feel that way is someone known to the family. IMO the Rs themselves eliminated that possibility by naming virtually everyone they knew as a possible suspect, and All of those people were thoroughly investigated.
:moo:

 

[bettybaby00]

:clap: wtg LE and family :clap:

http://www.fbi.gov/news/videos/latent-hit-of-the-year-2011-texas-1
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/october/print_101411


this case really touched me and IMO this is how innocent family members act,this brother NEVER gave up!not even with the prints being missing/ misplaced and the crime scene photos gone....

IKN? BR's "nah, not interested in talking to police again" is very damning IMO.

Yea it's not conclusive evidence that he knows something, or was directly involved, but it sure doesn't look positive.

I keep saying this: analyzing individual aspects of the crime, can easily be rationalized, but they can't be viewed in a vacuum. It's the totality of all the evidence and behaviors that makes the Rs look guilty as hell.

As Kolar states, " Solving a crime requires comprehensive, objective interpretation of both the physical evidence and the human behavior associated with the events under investigation." (280)

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IKN? BR's "nah, not interested in talking to police again" is very damning IMO.

Yea it's not conclusive evidence that he knows something, or was directly involved, but it sure doesn't look positive.

I keep saying this: analyzing individual aspects of the crime, can easily be rationalized, but they can't be viewed in a vacuum. It's the totality of all the evidence and behaviors that makes the Rs look guilty as hell.

As Kolar states, " Solving a crime requires comprehensive, objective interpretation of both the physical evidence and the human behavior associated with the events under investigation." (280)

BBM. That is damning? Im sorry. But the kid has lived with this since he was 9. He has seen what his parents have been through and any one who comes out in support of the Ramseys. They are absolutely slaughtered in the press. I think he is smart. I sure don't think that is anything damning.

 

[questfortrue]

IKN? BR's "nah, not interested in talking to police again" is very damning IMO.

Yea it's not conclusive evidence that he knows something, or was directly involved, but it sure doesn't look positive.

I keep saying this: analyzing individual aspects of the crime, can easily be rationalized, but they can't be viewed in a vacuum. It's the totality of all the evidence and behaviors that makes the Rs look guilty as hell.

As Kolar states, " Solving a crime requires comprehensive, objective interpretation of both the physical evidence and the human behavior associated with the events under investigation." (280)

Good post.

A couple of things stood out on this to me. LW reported that detectives handed BR a card and suggested if he ever wanted to talk, that would be how to reach them. However, there were 3 detectives and they flew 1200 miles. Just to hand a card over? I’d bet they wanted to speak in person, ask some questions and see a reaction. Also, timing on this was 2010. That was long after Kolar had made a presentation in Boulder. It was also after ML, (the DA then) had left her service. Maybe there were some detectives who received permission from a new DA to follow up with BR, after hearing what Kolar thought. LW again started threatening lawsuits after this happened.

One thing AH did was to leave an opening, in the event some evidence pointed to BR in the future, stating no evidence had turned up that BR was involved. So it wasn’t a total “clearing of BR” like LW and BR’s lawyer had sought. One other item involving BR. Both JR and PR had Boulder based lawyers, until LW was added as the lead bulldog. BR had an Atlanta-based lawyer. Wondered why.

Any one ever note something else about BR and his schooling? There was an interesting development before BR’s senior year. PR and JR decide to move from Atlanta to Charlevoix; there was speculation that it was to enable JR to achieve residency status in order to run for the Michigan legislature. Still, I was personally struck that they relocated before his senior year and did not leave him with family so that he could complete his last year. Most parents I know would not remove a kid before his senior year. Way too disruptive . However, PR and JR apparently thought something like keeping him in Atlanta wasn’t all that important compared to JR’s political ambitions. Or did BR start to talk a little about Boulder to someone?

Strength of character is cultivated in a family, by facing the troubles we all face. Maybe his refusal isn’t damning per se; for If he knew this crime involved only his mom and dad, it would take huge character to speak the truth. Clearly, BR did not have that kind of an upbringing. Of course, moo.