Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[FacelessPodcast]

Nic, I'm quite confident one of us here would be able to get the prints via their garbage, mild recon, etc. While we understand and respect your inability to name your POI, I'm sure there are work arounds. For starters, it seems your POI may be in California. But, even elsewhere is doable. Maybe you could try and source us via location based, and then discuss logistics privately? I'm a firm believer that nothing is impossible, and there's a solution to every problem.

That’s really kind, thank you

For the purposes of the podcast, it should really be the Chief who is the first one to make the discovery (whose first phone call would be to Setsuko). We’re selling this podcast basically in order to try and bring attention to the case again — hopefully the POI will be the guilty party but if not, we still want to tell the story. So, really we need the platform to put the budget in place for us to make that discovery. We also do want to limit how many people have this person’s name / address. So far it is me, Ryushi and one lawyer — we want to keep it that way until this is all over. I very much appreciate the offer though!

 

[fridaybaker]

Nic, I think you've answered this before, but I can't remember: Does the Chief know that you have someone in mind at this point?

It's a bit disheartening to hear that the Podcast is so far out: If your POI is the killer, he's living his life in comfort, while his victims suffered tremendously before death, and the living family has had decades of grief.

 

[fridaybaker]

As far as whether he lives in fear, my guess is that there are basically two, opposing, sets of factors at play: On the one hand, as time has gone on -many years- and he's gotten away with it, the fear has necessarily lessened, or at least become a dull, nagging feeling, rather than the terror that he most surely lived with immediately afterward.

The opposing factors to this, though, are that he certainly must be aware that as each year goes by, technology becomes more advanced; that ever more people will certainly view the evidence and consider the case; that there is simply more time to make "connections" within evidence; that the facts of the case become more broadly known every year, especially on this side of the world; that the greater the length of time that goes by, the odds increase that he will make a mistake. Additionally, as we age we become much more aware of just how precarious life is, and I think that may add to his fear-factor.

If I had to guess, I'd say he still has sleepless nights, and much of the time, it's lurking somewhere in the nether-regions of his conscienceness.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Nic, I think you've answered this before, but I can't remember: Does the Chief know that you have someone in mind at this point?

It's a bit disheartening to hear that the Podcast is so far out: If your POI is the killer, he's living his life in comfort, while his victims suffered tremendously before death, and the living family have had decades of grief.

He does know and he stands ready. I think he’s healthily skeptical of the POI but also sees all the things stacked up against him. After 24 years and this being his life’s work, he doesn’t want to get his hopes up, I think. Which is totally understandable.

 

[Charlot123]

There are diagrams that show his fingerprints were found there. Perhaps his technique to stem the blood from the cut on his hand worked well, so his was not found. And perhaps any blood from the family on him had dried by that point since the murders were speculated to have happened a few hours before the computer was recorded as being used. Or maybe he had ditched his clothes already. You’d think there would be some traces though.

Do the fingers on the computer/mouse at least match his fingerprints left at other objects?

 

[Charlot123]

@FacelessPodcast, I am starting to wonder.

If the murderer, indeed, is your poi, it is very easy to avoid even mentioning having lived in Japan. Any CV includes one's school of graduation, so if he finished HS already in the US, he doesn't need to include attending school in Japan.

I would bet on the perp not telling new friends about living at the base. It is possible that he mentions having lived in Japan with the parents before moving to the US, but he may provide a very sketchy history and safely bet on no one asking more. Or he can say, "my grandparents had a business in Korea", and leave it at this.

People here are not prying into childhood histories. I wonder if this is something you know about your poi, i.e., he doesn't overshare the history of living at a base in Japan?

 

[Sor Juana]

Hard to believe that he could use a computer after slaughtering an entire family and not leave any blood.

The killer left some blood traces around the place. DNA analysis has revealed that traces of blood (type A) found at the scene not belonging to the family were most probably his, and this is how it was found that the killer had that mixed ethnicity. I believe the killer wrapped his hand and possibly used his left hand to operate computer.

 

[Sor Juana]

He does know and he stands ready. I think he’s healthily skeptical of the POI but also sees all the things stacked up against him. After 24 years and this being his life’s work, he doesn’t want to get his hopes up, I think. Which is totally understandable.

I am struggling to understand one thing. It has become a matter of honour for the Tokyo police to solve the case. They have various types of professionals and connections to foreign intelligence. Why wasn't it possible to actually send someone undercover to the US to get the POI's fingerprints and a hair sample, and match them to be sure? Just to know for themselves. Then the legal actions could depend on the findings. They don't have to declare it globally, but the findings could drive some legal changes, and in the meantime, the police could gather more evidence to officially request the fingerprints or take more focused actions, following the rules and procedures. Knowingly.

 

[fridaybaker]

Sor Juana, I’m just talking here -I don’t know anything. However, we’ve discussed this some on this thread before: Just how eager the TMPD would be uncover a U.S. citizen murderer of Japanese citizens. It opens up a whole new, possibly quite problematic, political dimension. As you know, individual incidents, even murder at times, often take a back seat to the larger political picture, and we just can’t know exactly what that picture is.
Is that perhaps that is what’s going on here? I do wonder.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Sor Juana, I’m just talking here -I don’t know anything. However, we’ve discussed this some on this thread before: Just how eager the TMPD would be uncover a U.S. citizen murderer of Japanese citizens. It opens up a whole new, possibly quite problematic, political dimension. As you know, individual incidents, even murder at times, often take a back seat to the larger political picture, and we just can’t know exactly what that picture is.
Is that perhaps that is what’s going on here? I do wonder.

Exactly this. And not just a US citizen, but one from the military base, the mere presence of which is already debated. It was a controversy -given the strict covid measures enforced by Japan- that the US military was “advising” its personnel to vaccinate before going off-base, but not obliging, making them essentially the only people in the area free of pandemic restriction, despite being foreigners. So, you can imagine the furore if it transpires that these murders were authored by someone on Yokota. I don’t know for sure that geopolitics are being weighed by the TMPD (or those above). And I believe the detectives that say they will never give up. But as @Sor Juana raises, what is stopping them cooperating with US authorities to even *check* on the off-chance that the killer is in the States, given his apparent past steps in California? Absent a good reason, I’m left with the political elephant in the room.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I've always found it perplexing that the killer left so much blood and evidence of himself all over the house and pretty much everything in it, yet none of the potential entrance and exit points seem to have any trace of him at all.

Even if he was careful to wipe those areas down as he was leaving, nothing? No blood, fibres, fingerprints, nothing?

Hard to believe, and yet it seemingly happened.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I've always found it perplexing that the killer left so much blood and evidence of himself all over the house and pretty much everything in it, yet none of the potential entrance and exit points seem to have any trace of him at all.

Even if he was careful to wipe those areas down as he was leaving, nothing? No blood, fibres, fingerprints, nothing?

Hard to believe, and yet it seemingly happened.

One possible explanation: Rei’s balcony door. This is never discussed by the TMPD / the recreations on TV. Yet it would explain everything. Given its lack of mention, I can only guess that either the TMPD came to the realisation *later on* and very little has been said by them on this case beyond the usual “we won’t give up”. Or that entry / exit point holds clues they want to keep back for themselves. At this stage, after 24 years, I can’t imagine there’s any benefit to that, though.

 

[Incoherent]

Exactly this. And not just a US citizen, but one from the military base, the mere presence of which is already debated. It was a controversy -given the strict covid measures enforced by Japan- that the US military was “advising” its personnel to vaccinate before going off-base, but not obliging, making them essentially the only people in the area free of pandemic restriction, despite being foreigners. So, you can imagine the furore if it transpires that these murders were authored by someone on Yokota. I don’t know for sure that geopolitics are being weighed by the TMPD (or those above). And I believe the detectives that say they will never give up. But as @Sor Juana raises, what is stopping them cooperating with US authorities to even *check* on the off-chance that the killer is in the States, given his apparent past steps in California? Absent a good reason, I’m left with the political elephant in the room.

As per the wiki article on USF in Japan here:

“Between 1972 and 2009, U.S. servicemen committed 5,634 criminal offenses, including 25 murders, 385 burglaries, 25 arsons, 127 r*pes, 306 assaults, and 2,827 thefts.
According to the U.S.-Japan Status of Forces Agreement, when U.S. personnel crimes are committed both off-duty and off-base, they should be prosecuted under the Japanese law”

Just from a quick read on some of the crimes, the US personnel that were actually apprehended were punished under Japanese law. But as far as I can tell all them were caught while still in Japan.
If the TMPD had any hunch he was military it seems to me they had the means to arrest and imprison him, and they did so with others. To what extent have they worked this angle I wonder? Why wouldn’t they push forward with it, especially after the sand in the hip bag? Could it really all just be political reasons as to why they seemingly haven’t done this? Have they just not thought of it at all?

You are right though that if it turned out to be someone from a US military base that did this there would be complete and utter outrage here in Japan.

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

Am I understanding this correctly or did I miss a step…

It’s legally possible to collect the POI’s fingerprints and send them to a database that can potentially match them to the suspect?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

As per the wiki article on USF in Japan here:

“Between 1972 and 2009, U.S. servicemen committed 5,634 criminal offenses, including 25 murders, 385 burglaries, 25 arsons, 127 r*pes, 306 assaults, and 2,827 thefts.
According to the U.S.-Japan Status of Forces Agreement, when U.S. personnel crimes are committed both off-duty and off-base, they should be prosecuted under the Japanese law”

RSBM: that’s the theory but you don’t have to do a lot of reading until you hit cases where the US military ‘requested’ for the offence to be dealt with internally. I’ve interviewed people from Yokota / Misawa who’ve spoken about cases where even murders occurred (not actually involving Japanese) and the authorities asked for the TMPD or local police to not get involved. In every single instance, this was deferred to. When I was talking to one of the main English-language authors on Japanese crime, he made it clear: “it will have occurred to the TMPD that the killer might well be hiding in Yokota on day 1. Another thing entirely is for them to figure out a way of getting onto that base to even begin their questioning.”

Just from a quick read on some of the crimes, the US personnel that were actually apprehended were punished under Japanese law. But as far as I can tell all them were caught while still in Japan.
If the TMPD had any hunch he was military it seems to me they had the means to arrest and imprison him, and they did so with others. To what extent have they worked this angle I wonder? Why wouldn’t they push forward with it, especially after the sand in the hip bag? Could it really all just be political reasons as to why they seemingly haven’t done this? Have they just not thought of it at all?

I think possibly so. They would know that if he’s American, there’s a chance they might not get him, even uncovering his name. America won’t extradite a citizen to death. They rarely do at the best of times IMO. Look at the Harry Dunn case etc. This man is facing the noose. I could be wrong but it would be the first time the state of Japan is putting an American to death since WWII. This isn’t small potatoes.

You are right though that if it turned out to be someone from a US military base that did this there would be complete and utter outrage here in Japan.

100%

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Am I understanding this correctly or did I miss a step…

It’s legally possible to collect the POI’s fingerprints and send them to a database that can potentially match them to the suspect?

It’s legally possible to give a tip and for the police to check whether or not those prints match their scene. I don’t think those prints alone would be admissible as evidence in Japan. But at that point they would know who the killer is and they could set about getting their own prints etc. If the killer were American, however, it wouldn’t be that simple. But in theory, yes.

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

It’s legally possible to give a tip and for the police to check whether or not those prints match their scene. I don’t think those prints alone would be admissible as evidence in Japan. But at that point they would know who the killer is and they could set about getting their own prints etc. If the killer were American, however, it wouldn’t be that simple. But in theory, yes.

Ok, understood. Why do you not do this then? Or have you?

I understand that you want to get the funding for the next podcast and that this is your job/income, but isn’t the potential fulfilment of justice a higher priority here?

I’m sure there would be plenty of interest in funding the second season of the podcast if progress was made in that way. It seems kind of unethical to hold off on potential evidence that you could turn over in hope of funding a podcast to cover the “discovery”.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Ok, understood. Why do you not do this then? Or have you?

I understand that you want to get the funding for the next podcast and that this is your job/income, but isn’t the potential fulfilment of justice a higher priority here?

I’m sure there would be plenty of interest in funding the second season of the podcast if progress was made in that way. It seems kind of unethical to hold off on potential evidence that you could turn over in hope of funding a podcast to cover the “discovery”.

Because I live on the other side of the world and don’t have the resources to do it. If I had actual evidence against this man or anyone else, I would contact the authorities. But that is the exact point.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Ok, understood. Why do you not do this then? Or have you?

I understand that you want to get the funding for the next podcast and that this is your job/income, but isn’t the potential fulfilment of justice a higher priority here?

I’m sure there would be plenty of interest in funding the second season of the podcast if progress was made in that way. It seems kind of unethical to hold off on potential evidence that you could turn over in hope of funding a podcast to cover the “discovery”.

Also, as I’ve said before, there is every chance the POI is not the killer. But a podcast would again help raise awareness about the case which is little known in much of the world, outside crime circles. The money I get personally is actually very low. I would earn more working a year at McDonald’s than the two years of work I put into Faceless, for example. Have you read through the thread? Frankly, it’s very disheartening for the takeaway here to be that I’m milking this case for money.

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

Because I live on the other side of the world and don’t have the resources to do it. If I had actual evidence against this man or anyone else, I would contact the authorities. But that is the exact point.

But people have offered to help and you said no because you are wanting to wait until funds are raised for the podcast.

Obviously sharing the name publicly and widely would be a risk for defamation, but I am certain there would be ways to do it discretely, as has been offered here.

I totally empathise that this is your career and income source, but if you have an opportunity to see justice served couldn’t you make an exception and then be there to document the follow through?