Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[Justoneoftheguests]

Also, as I’ve said before, there is every chance the POI is not the killer. But a podcast would again help raise awareness about the case which is little known in much of the world, outside crime circles. The money I get personally is actually very low. I would earn more working a year at McDonald’s than the two years of work I put into Faceless, for example. Have you read through the thread? Frankly, it’s very disheartening for the takeaway here to be that I’m milking this case for money.

Yes I’ve read the thread from when it was first started. The work you’ve done on it is awesome. The take away isn’t that it’s about money, it’s just that there seem to be options to make progress here even without the next podcast, but this isn’t happening which from a sleuth and justice perspective is disheartening.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Yes I’ve read the thread from when it was first started. The work you’ve done on it is awesome. The take away isn’t that it’s about money, it’s just that there seem to be options to make progress here even without the next podcast, but this isn’t happening which from a sleuth and justice perspective is disheartening.

Then I’m sorry you’re disheartened. You can assume that there are no plates spinning in the background here or that I’m doing this for my career if you wish.

 

[Incoherent]

@Justoneoftheguests virtually everything you’re suggesting Nic to do is against TOS of this website and would have his account banned or deleted pretty quickly. Not to mention completely unethical.
Respectfully, in the interest of being able to continue our discussions here with someone as knowledgable as we have about the subject it is better not to keep pushing with that.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

One possible explanation: Rei’s balcony door. This is never discussed by the TMPD / the recreations on TV. Yet it would explain everything. Given its lack of mention, I can only guess that either the TMPD came to the realisation *later on* and very little has been said by them on this case beyond the usual “we won’t give up”. Or that entry / exit point holds clues they want to keep back for themselves. At this stage, after 24 years, I can’t imagine there’s any benefit to that, though.

I think you have previously said the Chief told you they don't know where killer got in and out?

I know things are different in Japan than they are in the UK, but it seems a little strange to say they don't know, if in fact they do know. Saying "I can't talk about it" seems like it would be more normal in those circumstances. "We don't know" sounds very definite.

If any traces were left on the balcony, you would think they *would* know.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I think you have previously said the Chief told you they don't know where killer got in and out?

I know things are different in Japan than they are in the UK, but it seems a little strange to say they don't know, if in fact they do know. Saying "I can't talk about it" seems like it would be more normal in those circumstances. "We don't know" sounds very definite.

If any traces were left on the balcony, you would think they *would* know.

What’s also strange here is that they were dusting the car (parked beneath Rei’s balcony) from Day 1. So, clearly, they must have considered it from the jump. But yeah, it’s strange that the door has no blood yet the bathroom window has no fibres, seemingly like a paradox, yet Rei’s balcony is never mentioned anywhere

 

[Sor Juana]

As you know, individual incidents, even murder at times, often take a back seat to the larger political picture, and we just can’t know exactly what that picture is. Is that perhaps that is what’s going on here? I do wonder.

If the TMPD had any hunch he was military it seems to me they had the means to arrest and imprison him, and they did so with others. To what extent have they worked this angle I wonder? Why wouldn’t they push forward with it, especially after the sand in the hip bag? Could it really all just be political reasons as to why they seemingly haven’t done this? Have they just not thought of it at all?

He does know and he stands ready. I think he’s healthily skeptical of the POI but also sees all the things stacked up against him. After 24 years and this being his life’s work, he doesn’t want to get his hopes up, I think. Which is totally understandable.

RSBM. From what I've heard, including from discussions in this thread, the police have put an enormous effort into finding the killer, leaving virtually no stone unturned. It seems comprehensive, but we don't know the whole picture, including all the theories the police have explored and what they currently have on record. However, we do know that the chief investigator is sceptical about the US military POI. He's not disappointed or frustrated about not being able to get to him, but rather sceptical. This suggests that he has a broad profile of the killer in mind based on information we don't know and it's not the US guy. Otherwise, he would be more open to the possibility, and perhaps the police or a Japanese intelligence agent would go undercover to obtain whatever materials were needed.

Given that the police have managed to prosecute 25 killers in 37 years in less publicised cases, they would likely exercise every legal opportunity to do so for the 26th time. Police officers continue to visit the Miyazawa house in Setagaya every year to pay their respects to the victims, and some remain on the case even after retiring. Furthermore, the police continue to allocate resources to the case, albeit with less capacity than in the first few years. To me, this indicates that they do not have a definitive POI or firm theory about who the killer is. If they did, they would obtain the necessary prints or hair samples and pursue legal actions, involving a different type of workforce and activating different mechanisms. The fact that they are still in the operational stage suggests they do not have particular suspects (with names and addresses) in mind.

All we can hope for is that new advancements in DNA legislation will bring us closer to identifying the killer. If they can identify even a broad family group, I'm confident they'll be able to figure out the rest.

 

[Incoherent]

What’s also strange here is that they were dusting the car (parked beneath Rei’s balcony) from Day 1. So, clearly, they must have considered it from the jump. But yeah, it’s strange that the door has no blood yet the bathroom window has no fibres, seemingly like a paradox, yet Rei’s balcony is never mentioned anywhere

Also to add climbing out of such a narrow bathroom window with a pretty bad hand injury would be pretty difficult to manoeuvre without causing yourself pain or just falling out of it entirely, no? And no fibres while struggling out of it potentially one-handed? Doesn’t make much sense.

Perhaps he entered that way and was stealthy enough to not leave any trace (unsure if that’s even possible), but exited via the balcony due to injury instead?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

However, we do know that the chief investigator is sceptical about the US military POI. He's not disappointed or frustrated about not being able to get to him, but rather sceptical. This suggests that he has a broad profile of the killer in mind based on information we don't know and it's not the US guy.

RSBM. With respect, you are making inferences about a conversation I was in. So, I’ll try to be clearer. I think he is skeptical, not for the idea that the killer could be American, but because he thinks it’s naturally unlikely that I could theoretically find the killer where they could not.

As for him having a profile, we spoke about that at length. To put it simply, there are things that he thinks are more or less likely but he doesn’t have one.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Given that the police have managed to prosecute 25 killers in 37 years in less publicised cases, they would likely exercise every legal opportunity to do so for the 26th time.

How many of those killers perpetrated japan’s most notorious murders and got away with it? How many of those 25 are currently living out their lives in the US having left behind only prints and evidence?

Police officers continue to visit the Miyazawa house in Setagaya every year to pay their respects to the victims, and some remain on the case even after retiring. Furthermore, the police continue to allocate resources to the case, albeit with less capacity than in the first few years. To me, this indicates that they do not have a definitive POI or firm theory about who the killer is. If they did, they would obtain the necessary prints or hair samples and pursue legal actions, involving a different type of workforce and activating different mechanisms. The fact that they are still in the operational stage suggests they do not have particular suspects (with names and addresses) in mind.

I absolutely agree with that.

All we can hope for is that new advancements in DNA legislation will bring us closer to identifying the killer. If they can identify even a broad family group, I'm confident they'll be able to figure out the rest.

I absolutely hope for that too. But I don’t think it’s all we can hope for.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

What’s also strange here is that they were dusting the car (parked beneath Rei’s balcony) from Day 1. So, clearly, they must have considered it from the jump. But yeah, it’s strange that the door has no blood yet the bathroom window has no fibres, seemingly like a paradox, yet Rei’s balcony is never mentioned anywhere

It's so strange because if they *had* found evidence on the balcony or the car, there's really no good explanation for it other than the killer entering or leaving that way. They would have to know that is what he did. So logically, I have to think they *didn't* find anything on the car or balcony either.

Which pretty much leaves dematerializing as the most likely option.

 

[Charlot123]

As per the wiki article on USF in Japan here:

“Between 1972 and 2009, U.S. servicemen committed 5,634 criminal offenses, including 25 murders, 385 burglaries, 25 arsons, 127 r*pes, 306 assaults, and 2,827 thefts.
According to the U.S.-Japan Status of Forces Agreement, when U.S. personnel crimes are committed both off-duty and off-base, they should be prosecuted under the Japanese law”

Just from a quick read on some of the crimes, the US personnel that were actually apprehended were punished under Japanese law. But as far as I can tell all them were caught while still in Japan.
If the TMPD had any hunch he was military it seems to me they had the means to arrest and imprison him, and they did so with others. To what extent have they worked this angle I wonder? Why wouldn’t they push forward with it, especially after the sand in the hip bag? Could it really all just be political reasons as to why they seemingly haven’t done this? Have they just not thought of it at all?

You are right though that if it turned out to be someone from a US military base that did this there would be complete and utter outrage here in Japan.

I can imagine the outrage.

However, what scenario, do you think, creates more outrage (if the person, indeed, was from the US base):

A) - he finally got identified
- the citizens of his mother country: got horrified, expressed compassion towards the victims and their families, apologized to the country and the victims' families, and prosecuted the criminal publicly. Whether in US or Japan may be secondary, as long as it is in accordance with the country's laws.

B) - there is a significant index of suspicion in the mother country, but all is swept under the rug and the person is allowed to have a normal life and career? Later, he is still identified by genetic genealogy, performed outside of his current country of residence, and his family name is known in Japan.

I think that involvement, public apology and changes allowing to prevent such episodes in the future are the only thing that would minimize the outrage in Japan.

MOO, I foresee DNA laws in Japan happening sooner than the country wants to, what with the influx of migrants.

There are sociopathic killers born everywhere. So far prevention is unavailable. However, the public apology of the country where the person resides now might make the difference.

On the other hand, there is nothing worse than being unjustly suspected. DNA work could also effectively rule out the base personnel's involvement. So far, we are neither here nor there.

 

[Charlot123]

Also, as I’ve said before, there is every chance the POI is not the killer. But a podcast would again help raise awareness about the case which is little known in much of the world, outside crime circles. The money I get personally is actually very low. I would earn more working a year at McDonald’s than the two years of work I put into Faceless, for example. Have you read through the thread? Frankly, it’s very disheartening for the takeaway here to be that I’m milking this case for money.

No one thinks you are milking this case for money, Nic.

Plus, it is not the case with the tip line being available in the US. Any tip line for this case would be in Japan, and you've already done a lot to establish the connections with TMPD.

Subjectively speaking, it might be difficult to submit a tip even via an open tip line. What you are noticing are some peculiar coincidences, and your "detective buds" are excited, but any realistic person asks himself, is my personal hunch enough to accuse someone random, on the other side of the globe, of murder, or am I overreacting?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

It's so strange because if they *had* found evidence on the balcony or the car, there's really no good explanation for it other than the killer entering or leaving that way. They would have to know that is what he did. So logically, I have to think they *didn't* find anything on the car or balcony either.

Which pretty much leaves dematerializing as the most likely option.

The one thing they are certain of is that he never enters the garage. Is it that they found no trace of him in there so 2+2=4? But I have to wonder. Because if that’s mistaken, it explains a lot. Such an exit would require zero acrobatics and so on.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Subjectively speaking, it might be difficult to submit a tip even via an open tip line. What you are noticing are some peculiar coincidences, and your "detective buds" are excited, but any realistic person asks himself, is my personal hunch enough to accuse someone random, on the other side of the globe, of murder, or am I overreacting?

RSBM: Exactly. I think if I went to the TMPD with this it would either be ignored or the next question would be—how do we get at this person? Given the language barrier, given the reticence to engage with outside / non-Japanese elements continually (from what I have seen), I think I can only go to them with a tip including the POI’s prints. And even then, I will need the backing of the Chief to be taken seriously. That idea that Joe Public can pull my POI’s fingerprints and send them to the Chief to make the match isn’t realistic for so many reasons (some which are obvious, some which I can’t get into).

 

[Incoherent]

The one thing they are certain of is that he never enters the garage. Is it that they found no trace of him in there so 2+2=4? But I have to wonder. Because if that’s mistaken, it explains a lot. Such an exit would require zero acrobatics and so on.

I can’t recall from what I’ve seen but is there a way into the garage from inside the house? Or is it only from outside?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I can’t recall from what I’ve seen but is there a way into the garage from inside the house? Or is it only from outside?

Now you’re making me doubt it but I believe there is a ground-floor door that connects the hallway

 

[fridaybaker]

Exactly this. And not just a US citizen, but one from the military base, the mere presence of which is already debated. It was a controversy -given the strict covid measures enforced by Japan- that the US military was “advising” its personnel to vaccinate before going off-base, but not obliging, making them essentially the only people in the area free of pandemic restriction, despite being foreigners. So, you can imagine the furore if it transpires that these murders were authored by someone on Yokota. I don’t know for sure that geopolitics are being weighed by the TMPD (or those above). And I believe the detectives that say they will never give up. But as @Sor Juana raises, what is stopping them cooperating with US authorities to even *check* on the off-chance that the killer is in the States, given his apparent past steps in California? Absent a good reason, I’m left with the political elephant in the room.

Thanks for fleshing this out this idea! It's so helpful to have someone who has personal knowledge of the landscape lay it out for us (at least me). Sadly, those are probably things that will never be spoken of by the people at the center of the investigation, even if true. Very frustrating.

 

[dotr]

Now you’re making me doubt it but I believe there is a ground-floor door that connects the hallway

Random speculation, imo.
If it is true that a garage door might lead into the hallway, could the perp have been hiding in the garage all along, maybe even snuck inside a car?
Although i mentioned it before and it is unlikely, not impossible- i still wonder just a little, if the killer brought a container of blood (his own or someone else's) to the scene and strategically place it to mislead an investigation?
Which leads me to wonder if the killing had more to do with anger at LE, wanting to taunt and mess with them, and families in the community at large?

 

[fridaybaker]

You have a crafty mind, dotr!

 

[dotr]

You have a crafty mind, dotr!

Not sure if that is a compliment or not, lol, but was thinking of this case, there are others..

FBI evidence offers insight into Unabomber

To evade authorities chasing him, Unabomber Theodore Kaczynski kept shoes with smaller soles attached to the bottom in his reclusive Montana cabin, according to evidence released 10 years after his capture.

www.nbcnews.com

''The station said Kaczynski described in his writings how he placed two human hairs he found in a bus station into a bomb “to deceive the policemen, who will think that the hair belongs to whoever made the device.”