Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[FacelessPodcast]

(BTW, Japanese Wiki also says about mutilated cats found in the skateboarders' park (separately from posts on "pet hating boards"). ) It seems that the place where they lived was becoming less and less safe, this is why people were leaving.

To me it seems he might have been observing skateboarders here but not part of their group.

The TMPD solved the cat torture case. It had nothing to do with this case. It was a bank clerk apparently (though he maintains his innocence).

People were leaving Soshigaya Park because the City were buying them out due to the planned park expansion. Thus there were only 3 occupied houses from a complex that originally held 200.

I too think it's very possible the killer had watched the family. And, in doing so, would have seen the skaters. I think he is smart enough to want to give the impression that one of them was involved...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Most of those details (though as far as I recall not the ones about the cat mutilations) are also in Nic’s case synopsis on page 1 of this thread.

The cat killings have nothing to do with the Miyazawas. At least as far as the TMPD are concerned

 

[Charlot123]

.

Yes, I am friends with the author of this article. Her point is that this is what is known in the Japanese press versus the English translations we're getting. And they are guilty of publishing falsehoods and misunderstandings too. She does not know how the killer felt when he found they were still alive at the bottom of the ladder. From speaking with the Chief, it seems as if he simply stopped stabbing them (his knife was broken off in Mikio's skull) and that's why he stopped and went downstairs for a new knife. It's possible of course that he assumed Yasuko and Niina were already dead and that it angered him to see they were not which in turns fuels the overkill to come. But Magda does not know that. Nor do we. Nor even the Chief.

NB: the Chief would not confirm the point about Niina's teeth. Nor would he speculate on who the killer's 'intended' victim was. He pointed out only that Yasuko's body bore the most damage but that's relative given he had never seen murders so savage in his whole career.

Also, yes. Ann lived in England with her family as the husband worked for Formula 1, I believe. Haruko initially was living in the neighbouring house alone...

Thank you.

I can see now how much work the Tokio poliqce has done.

Can you, in you spare time, comment on the fluorescent materials, please? In some places it says, hi-lighter, in some, that it was some material for printing press, but foreign, and somewhere they even said that Mikio and the perp used black light to check each other in the garage? This part I could not understand.

I don't think anyone can. They have collected tons of material. Tons I mean it. DNA should be the solution, especially since they have different sources.

 

[Charlot123]

The TMPD solved the cat torture case. It had nothing to do with this case. It was a bank clerk apparently (though he maintains his innocence).

People were leaving Soshigaya Park because the City were buying them out due to the planned park expansion. Thus there were only 3 occupied houses from a complex that originally held 200.

I too think it's very possible the killer had watched the family. And, in doing so, would have seen the skaters. I think he is smart enough to want to give the impression that one of them was involved...

You know, I wonder if he has the history of stealing. Sometimes I wonder if he might have stolen something from the skateboarders, or the knife. That whole rummaging through the documents may have something to do with trying to figure out pins to credit cards by dates of birth. I don't know the motive, probably not robbery, but I think he left some traces that were not even his because he easily steals for thrill.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Yasuko and Niina puzzle me a little.

Even with a bleeding child, I feel like you'd wait a while before venturing down from the attic. And we're told it was Yasuko who first fetched the first aid kit (from the bathroom?) to patch up Niina. Yasuko must have been fairly sure the killer had gone.

The official story is that the killer stopped attacking Yasuko and Niina with the broken knife because he went to get another knife. But if that's the case, how was there enough time for Yasuko to think he'd gone, and then try to patch up Niina? I'd expect the killer to come back with another knife pretty quickly to finish the job.

Is it possible the killer believed Yasuko and Niina were already dead up in the attic, and went back down the ladder to rest and tend to his own wounds? Yasuko comes down with Niina thinking he has gone, the killer is roused, and he then grabs another knife and finishes the attack?

Perhaps the "overkill" on Yasuko and Niina wasn't hatred of women (though it definitely could be) but anger at the fact they hadn't died already. This time he made absolutely sure they were dead.

I've thought about that a lot. Why not play dead? How does Yasuko know the killer has left the house? Or does she simply plan to try and get past him and out into the street? My only conclusion is that she's in shock, losing blood rapidly, gripped by utter and abject terror, and is driven by this. If you've ever been caught by a large earthquake, it's the same. What you should do is suddenly impossible to remember. You find yourself doing stupid things even in the moment you know them to be stupid. Add into that serious knife wounds to not only her but her child and the fear that Rei and Mikio are still down there?

As for him being in a rush, why? What else has he rushed the whole time? I'm assuming he could hear them struggling down the attic ladder and probably Yasuko was talking to Niina to reassure her etc so he had a good handle on where they were. Though of course, your scenario is totally possible.

The overkill possibility for sure. We just don't know what was driving it. Was it Yasuko specifically? Anger that they weren't yet dead and had FURTHER complicated a plan that had already gone south so badly? A hatred of women? Did he save them until last? Or simply murder them in the order he came to them? (Inarguable according to the TMPD).

 

[dub]

I too think it's very possible the killer had watched the family. And, in doing so, would have seen the skaters. I think he is smart enough to want to give the impression that one of them was involved...

I feel like he MUST have watched the family just because I don't see how he otherwise would have known about the room in the attic and that there were people in it (unless he had been in the house before, which is possible but I think unlikely).

I watched the video inside the house on page 1 last night, and there is no chance I would have clocked that as a room if I were randomly going through the house without prior knowledge - and seemingly Yasuko and Niina were asleep, right? So he wouldn't have been alerted to their presence by sound.


[Side note, I also don't understand how Yasuko and Niina weren't alerted to the attack on Mikio, which as far as I can tell began more or less directly below them. But if that is the case, then I guess I can also understand why the neighbors/family didn't hear anything besides the ladder.]

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Just throwing this out there, wondering if the family was in any way associated with "Tokyo Rose"? speculation, imo.

If there is a connection to that, I'm going to have to write another book

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I’d be curious of that too, although it could just be a matter of perception?

Not trying to be contrarian, but one could also easily argue that strangling a 6 year old with bare hands is the most “vicious” attack of all of them.

That's the problem with this whole paradoxical morass. It's arguable in any which way. One step forward, two steps back

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Could this young killer also have been taken by surprise that the father was actually home. Did Mr Miyazawa ever go out in the evenings?

1. It absolutely would not shock me if the killer had broken into properties / watched people before. There's possibly even still DNA lingering about there, just no swabs were taken (this is 23+ years ago) for a simple break-in.
2. The killer *could* have been surprised, of course. But that would imply a fairly solid knowledge of Mikio's timetable and A) it was new years so that would've gone out the window and B) it's fairly late at night during the holidays for a man with a young family, he would need a strong reason to assume Mikio was out that night. C) If he knew Mikio's plans, he knows Mikio on some level, even if indirectly. And I think the killer is caught through that.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Was the boy his main target? A kidnapping gone wrong?
Does he asphyxiate for a sexual kick, or is it a weird empathetic 'humane' killing of a fellow 'boy', or is to torture the mother while she lies injured?

Take your pick!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Im really conflicted on this but I’m inclined to think all of them were the target.

I feel like if one of them was the target then Rei is most likely by far, but then again if that was the case he could have just come in thru the balcony, killed Rei and then left the way he came without anyone else knowing.

Though I guess that could have been the original plan, but then after killing Rei the killer just “saw red” or whatever and went berzerk and killed the rest on a whim?

I do NOT think he was interrupted in the process (or heard Mikio coming) and killed the rest as a result of that, but who knows.

As with everything in the case the targeting is really confusing.

Yes, my feeling is that he actually is driven by rage or hatred for someone else and the Miyazawa family are surrogates for that emotion. Why them? Because he can. He could not get away with destroying the true object of his hatred.

But yes, I think the target is them as a group generally.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

From speaking with the Chief, it seems as if he simply stopped stabbing them (his knife was broken off in Mikio's skull) and that's why he stopped and went downstairs for a new knife.

Respectfully snipped and bolded.

I wonder. The killer did much more damage to the head/face of Yasuko and Niina, but perhaps he would have done just as much damage to Mikio if the first knife hadn't broken. I presume Mikio had no wounds from the second knife.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Can you, in you spare time, comment on the fluorescent materials, please? In some places it says, hi-lighter, in some, that it was some material for printing press, but foreign, and somewhere they even said that Mikio and the perp used black light to check each other in the garage? This part I could not understand.

I don't think anyone can. They have collected tons of material. Tons I mean it. DNA should be the solution, especially since they have different sources.

I need to find out more about this. I've read so many different things. If you get deep into it, there is talk of some graffiti at the nearby university talking about murder. That the killer's traces matched those Mikio had in his garage pertaining to some kind of theatrical paint. The reality is that the police won't get into it much and without confirmation, it's a chimera.

The killer never entered the garage, though. That's categorical. The one room he never enters.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Respectfully snipped and bolded.

I wonder. The killer did much more damage to the head/face of Yasuko and Niina, but perhaps he would have done just as much damage to Mikio if the first knife hadn't broken. I presume Mikio had no wounds from the second knife.

Exactly that.

So the question is: does he let loose on Yasuko because it's Yasuko. Or because he's now able to. Had Yasuko fought with him on the stairs and it been Mikio upstairs, would the sequence have been reversed in the same way? How long is a piece of string. He stabbed them all in the face / head region. Obviously except for Rei.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I feel like he MUST have watched the family just because I don't see how he otherwise would have known about the room in the attic and that there were people in it (unless he had been in the house before, which is possible but I think unlikely).

I watched the video inside the house on page 1 last night, and there is no chance I would have clocked that as a room if I were randomly going through the house without prior knowledge - and seemingly Yasuko and Niina were asleep, right? So he wouldn't have been alerted to their presence by sound.


[Side note, I also don't understand how Yasuko and Niina weren't alerted to the attack on Mikio, which as far as I can tell began more or less directly below them. But if that is the case, then I guess I can also understand why the neighbors/family didn't hear anything besides the ladder.]

But the fold-down ladder is deployed. So he sees a ladder leading up. He wouldn't need to do more than simply satisfy his curiosity. Or he knew there were four of them and assumed the other two were up there.

I've got a very similar ladder in my family home and basically, if anyone is going to be up there, the rule is you leave the ladder down always otherwise they're stuck up there.

As for what Yasuko and Niina heard upstairs, maybe they didn't hear much clearly other than bangs and grunts. Maybe Mikio was shouting and they were terrified. But your last point -- that, my friend, is the real head-scratcher.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Exactly that.

So the question is: does he let loose on Yasuko because it's Yasuko. Or because he's now able to. Had Yasuko fought with him on the stairs and it been Mikio upstairs, would the sequence have been reversed in the same way? How long is a piece of string. He stabbed them all in the face / head region. Obviously except for Rei.

This is where the autopsy reports would be useful. It's likely that LE have drawn many (most) of their conclusions from the autopsies, even though we don't have the full information to allow *us* to understand it.

For example, which of Mikio's wounds were inflicted before, and which after the knife broke. A forensic pathologist would be able to tell very easily. If most of the wounds to the chest/legs/etc. were inflicted *after* the knife broke, it would be reasonable to assume attacking the head was the killer's first instinct in all three stabbing deaths.

 

[dub]

But the fold-down ladder is deployed. So he sees a ladder leading up. He wouldn't need to do more than simply satisfy his curiosity. Or he knew there were four of them and assumed the other two were up there.

I've got a very similar ladder in my family home and basically, if anyone is going to be up there, the rule is you leave the ladder down always otherwise they're stuck up there.

As for what Yasuko and Niina heard upstairs, maybe they didn't hear much clearly other than bangs and grunts. Maybe Mikio was shouting and they were terrified. But your last point -- that, my friend, is the real head-scratcher.

Oh that’s wild, yeah that obviously explains how he found them but makes it almost unfathomable that they didn’t wake up.

I figured it was up because I saw no chance they wouldn’t wake up if it was down, but I also should have known they’d be trapped up there if it was up because I’ve seen Christmas Vacation many times haha

 

[Lubilu]

Was the boy his main target? A kidnapping gone wrong?
Does he asphyxiate for a sexual kick, or is it a weird empathetic 'humane' killing of a fellow 'boy', or is to torture the mother while she lies injured?

My suspicion is that Rei was killed in the ways he was (A. asphyxiated, B. seemingly first) precisely because he wasn't the primary target. It's the least attention-drawing of the deaths, and it seems to me to indicate that the primary objective was murder (by any means and willing to create collateral damage), but imo specifically not primarily the murder of Rei. If Rei was the primary target, why go to the bother of the following, super-intense and bloody killings?

Does that make sense to anyone else or am I speculating too much?

 

[fridaybaker]

Okay, maybe a limb here, but considering that Rei was 13 at the time, could he have made the recent acquaintance of an older teenager (TMPD says the killer could be as young as 15) who was the killer? Family was/became aware of this acquaintance, and is hesitant for some reason to have him tracked down. Since the killer knows Rei, he needs to get him out of the way, but wants him to suffer as little as possible? This would fit with some of the family not being terrible helpful in the investigation.

I feel like something like this is probably getting in the weeds, though, as isn’t the most likely scenario that he was strangled quietly to not arouse the suspicion of the others?

 

[Lubilu]

Okay, maybe a limb here, but considering that Rei was 13 at the time, could he have made the recent acquaintance of an older teenager (TMPD says the killer could be as young as 15) who was the killer? Family was/became aware of this acquaintance, and is hesitant for some reason to have him tracked down. Since the killer knows Rei, he needs to get him out of the way, but wants him to suffer as little as possible? This would fit with some of the family not being terrible helpful in the investigation.

I feel like something like this is probably getting in the weeds, though, as isn’t the most likely scenario that he was strangled quietly to not arouse the suspicion of the others?

I believe Rei was 6, and that scenario doesn't hold water so well to me with that age... But we could go around in circles for ages about these granular details of motive, I guess.

I notice we're approaching a second thread, which is good - so many more of us know about this case thanks to this thread and Nick's podcast. May there be many more - both attentive eyes and podcast seasons!

In all seriousness, @FacelessPodcast is the expert here and I really hope that his hard work and dedication to this case bring some serious movement. I feel tentatively positive about that.

ETA some clarifications of unclear sentences, sorry!