Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[Interested_But_Confused]

Okay, maybe a limb here, but considering that Rei was 13 at the time, could he have made the recent acquaintance of an older teenager (TMPD says the killer could be as young as 15) who was the killer? Family was/became aware of this acquaintance, and is hesitant for some reason to have him tracked down. Since the killer knows Rei, he needs to get him out of the way, but wants him to suffer as little as possible? This would fit with some of the family not being terrible helpful in the investigation.

I feel like something like this is probably getting in the weeds, though, as isn’t the most likely scenario that he was strangled quietly to not arouse the suspicion of the others?

Rei was only 6. I think it's the son of the sister living next door who was 13.

 

[fridaybaker]

Ah, thank you!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

My suspicion is that Rei was killed in the ways he was (A. asphyxiated, B. seemingly first) precisely because he wasn't the primary target. It's the least attention-drawing of the deaths, and it seems to me to indicate that the primary objective was murder (by any means and willing to create collateral damage), but imo specifically not primarily the murder of Rei. If Rei was the primary target, why go to the bother of the following, super-intense and bloody killings?

Does that make sense to anyone else or am I speculating too much?

The killer, I would bet my bottom dollar, enters through Rei's room. Thus, Rei is first to die and he dies the way he dies because the killer is trying to stay quiet. That's what I think makes the most sense.

And as you rightly say, Lubilu, if his objective was to murder Rei and the rest were collateral, why not turn and flee the second Rei was dead? Even if Mikio was coming up the stairs, he would've been more preoccupied with his son and the killer had covered his face with a handkerchief, wearing a hat etc. Why not just flee? Possible Mikio walked in straight after the murder of Rei of course and forced the killer's hand.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Okay, maybe a limb here, but considering that Rei was 13 at the time, could he have made the recent acquaintance of an older teenager (TMPD says the killer could be as young as 15) who was the killer? Family was/became aware of this acquaintance, and is hesitant for some reason to have him tracked down. Since the killer knows Rei, he needs to get him out of the way, but wants him to suffer as little as possible? This would fit with some of the family not being terrible helpful in the investigation.

I feel like something like this is probably getting in the weeds, though, as isn’t the most likely scenario that he was strangled quietly to not arouse the suspicion of the others?

Ann Irie's son, who lived next door, is the one who was 13 at the time of the murders. And while anything is possible here, I just don't see a recent friend of his being too far removed for the TMPD to strike upon.

I do think there are questions for the Irie family (real name Kaneda) to answer, though.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I believe Rei was 6, and that scenario doesn't hold water so well to me with that age... But we could go around in circles for ages about these granular details of motive, I guess.

I notice we're approaching a second thread, which is good - so many more of us know about this case thanks to this thread and Nick's podcast. May there be many more - both attentive eyes and podcast seasons!

In all seriousness, @FacelessPodcast is the expert here and I really hope that his hard work and dedication to this case bring some serious movement. I feel tentatively positive about that.

ETA some clarifications of unclear sentences, sorry!

Too kind! I'm groping around in the dark like the rest of us here.

What did you mind by second thread btw? (This thread is my first WS thread, though I've lurked ofc across many others).

Here's hoping Season 2 shakes the tree in some way or form. So nice to have built this little community here to talk about it and share ideas.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Rei was only 6. I think it's the son of the sister living next door who was 13.

yes, apologies for repeating

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

yes, apologies for repeating

Please don't feel you have to apologise for sharing your knowledge. We're all here because you've been gracious enough to share your time and research with us, and I think I can speak for everyone when I say how much we appreciate it.

 

[Lubilu]

Too kind! I'm groping around in the dark like the rest of us here.

What did you mind by second thread btw? (This thread is my first WS thread, though I've lurked ofc across many others).

Here's hoping Season 2 shakes the tree in some way or form. So nice to have built this little community here to talk about it and share ideas.

I think threads max out at capacity at around 50 pages or so, and then the mods will make a new thread with a #2 suffix for people to continue their discussions Perhaps it's a small thing but in my eyes, more pages/threads = more attention and hopefully more moves in useful directions for a cold case.

 

[fridaybaker]

Ann Irie's son, who lived next door, is the one who was 13 at the time of the murders. And while anything is possible here, I just don't see a recent friend of his being too far removed for the TMPD to strike upon.

I do think there are questions for the Irie family (real name Kaneda) to answer, though.

Yeah, sorry for the confused post! Tired.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

The killer, I would bet my bottom dollar, enters through Rei's room. Thus, Rei is first to die and he dies the way he dies because the killer is trying to stay quiet. That's what I think makes the most sense.

And as you rightly say, Lubilu, if his objective was to murder Rei and the rest were collateral, why not turn and flee the second Rei was dead? Even if Mikio was coming up the stairs, he would've been more preoccupied with his son and the killer had covered his face with a handkerchief, wearing a hat etc. Why not just flee? Possible Mikio walked in straight after the murder of Rei of course and forced the killer's hand.

Wait. Wasn’t Rei’s room in the front of the house? Also closest to next door? If so, I don’t think the killer entered there. My recollection of the house is Rei was toward the front.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, my feeling is that he actually is driven by rage or hatred for someone else and the Miyazawa family are surrogates for that emotion. Why them? Because he can. He could not get away with destroying the true object of his hatred.

But yes, I think the target is them as a group generally.

I was thinking about it. The Wikipedia says that the Japanese police thinks he is fast and impulsive, a risk-taker, but at the same time, sort of a planner given how he folded his clothes.

MOO. I wonder if his parents are very different people and maybe, the setup is the same as in Miyazawa’s family. I have seen some different photos of the family, and Mikio looks like most of our IT guys. And it would seem to me that according to the principle, “opposites attract”, he married a very vivacious, active, social woman with a strong character.

Yasuko was working. From what I understand, Mr. Miyazawa made decent money, and they had two young kids, but she had the cramming school, and she was the teacher, and many of them have some leadership traits. Who do you think wears the pants in the family? (And boy, was she fighting for her daughter’s life and her own, too. Amazing woman!)

Now if I could only imagine the murderer’s family, I’d guess his parents are of the same type, only way more polarized. The murderer has two sides to him. “A creature of habit”, a planner, he probably got from his dad, who may like routine and predictability. As to mom, I think she is very emotional, and maybe even more than that. But, dad has the place to escape, his work, and the kid stays at home with a strong, demanding mother.

Pure fantasy - I don’t know how, but I suspect via some connection, he was indirectly observing the Miyazawa’s family for a while. Rei, who is young and has some speech impairment (it is a hard moment in the life of any family, and the Miyazawas are proactive in treatment, but the stress on both patents is huge, and it is a difficult time for the family, no doubt). A very active, beautiful, vibrant mother, a quieter dad.

It could have been pure projection and transference. The perpetrator hates himself, but projects it onto the outside world, mainly, his parents. However, one cannot do anything with the parents. Maybe there was some quarrel between one of the Miyazawas and the bikers, and the perpetrator somehow snapped. Maybe he, indeed, blames his own mother more, or is a mere grievance collector. I don’t know if he has siblings or not, but if he does, he might be the younger of the two and maybe the older sibling is closer to the parents.

If I would take a guess, I think he dislikes both Mikio and Yasuko, each in his own way, and maybe he relishes in exerting control over the Miyazawa family. Lots of things he does in the house could be exactly what he is not allowed to do at home. Not flushing after himself, making a mess, eating more than one ice cream. I think he views Niina as a distinctive entity, as to Rei, he almost doesn’t see him, but if anything, associates Rei with himself. (“What’s the use of him growing up? He’d be like me”).

Covering Yasuko’s head means that maybe, he directed it more against the woman, but the obvious analogy with the matricide is scary for him and also, I think there is some shame because he saw how fiercely the mother protected her child.

He might be the middle child, too, and then Rei is the epitome of the younger sibling, whom he dislikes but doesn’t hate, and Niina, the older sibling.

All of it applies if he is an asexual/aromantic teenager. If he is 20 or over, lots of things may be changed depending on his sexual orientation, etc.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Please don't feel you have to apologise for sharing your knowledge. We're all here because you've been gracious enough to share your time and research with us, and I think I can speak for everyone when I say how much we appreciate it.

Aw, thank you. It's my pleasure.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I think threads max out at capacity at around 50 pages or so, and then the mods will make a new thread with a #2 suffix for people to continue their discussions Perhaps it's a small thing but in my eyes, more pages/threads = more attention and hopefully more moves in useful directions for a cold case.

I didn't realise! So pleased it's generated this much discussion.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Wait. Wasn’t Rei’s room in the front of the house? Also closest to next door? If so, I don’t think the killer entered there. My recollection of the house is Rei was toward the front.

Rei's room is at the front of the house, yes -- above the garage. But that little balcony by his window was somewhat hidden, in a sort of alcove. You can see what I mean here, the entrance to Rei's room would've been just above the red car. It's the most logical point of entry. There are the fewest problems with it. Otherwise:

1. The bathroom window on the 2nd floor (where you can see cops in the photo at the rear) would have been very, very difficult and yet no fibres from the killer were left in the window frame despite being very narrow.

2. The front door. I've spoken about the problems with this at length.

3. The garage itself. This is the only room in the house the killer never entered.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Rei's room is at the front of the house, yes -- above the garage. But that little balcony by his window was somewhat hidden, in a sort of alcove. You can see what I mean here, the entrance to Rei's room would've been just above the red car. It's the most logical point of entry. There are the fewest problems with it. Otherwise:

1. The bathroom window on the 2nd floor (where you can see cops in the photo at the rear) would have been very, very difficult and yet no fibres from the killer were left in the window frame despite being very narrow.

2. The front door. I've spoken about the problems with this at length.

3. The garage itself. This is the only room in the house the killer never entered.

View attachment 472518

As unlikely as it is the killer could have entered through the bathroom window without leaving evidence, it's equally puzzling that the killer seems to have left no definitive evidence around *any* of the potential entrance or exit points.

Jason Bourne? Absolutely. A ghost who left evidence of everything they did *inside* the house, but no evidence of where they approached from, how they got in, how they got out, nor how they got away again.

 

[fridaybaker]

Rei's room is at the front of the house, yes -- above the garage. But that little balcony by his window was somewhat hidden, in a sort of alcove. You can see what I mean here, the entrance to Rei's room would've been just above the red car. It's the most logical point of entry. There are the fewest problems with it. Otherwise:

1. The bathroom window on the 2nd floor (where you can see cops in the photo at the rear) would have been very, very difficult and yet no fibres from the killer were left in the window frame despite being very narrow.

2. The front door. I've spoken about the problems with this at length.

3. The garage itself. This is the only room in the house the killer never entered.

View attachment 472518

Okay, I realize that much of this has been hashed out before, but since we’re sort of circling back, and considering the copious erroneous information that has been repeated over the years, a couple of questions:

At some point it was suggested that the killer could have used the fence in the back as leverage to get inside the very awkward window. Then I though I heard that it would have been too far away from the window. At any rate, the window entrance would have required considerable dexterity and strength, even he used the fence, wouldn’t it have? Like, A LOT. Agility, very thin physique, and strength.

Also, if the guy were quite small and the window frame without any sharp or rough areas, is it impossible to think that it wouldn’t have caught any fibers?

Also, was the window open or closed when LE arrived? Surely he wouldn’t stop, either coming or going, to close the window.

Nic, thanks for your patience in answering so many questions here, I’ve read over the entire thread a couple of times, but still forget some of it.

 

[fridaybaker]

As unlikely as it is the killer could have entered through the bathroom window without leaving evidence, it's equally puzzling that the killer seems to have left no definitive evidence around *any* of the potential entrance or exit points.

Jason Bourne? Absolutely. A ghost who left evidence of everything they did *inside* the house, but no evidence of where they approached from, how they got in, how they got out, nor how they got away again.

I agrée, we joke about it, but in some ways he is JB!

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I agrée, we joke about it, but in some ways he is JB!

I think Nic has said the insect screen was cut away at the bathroom window, and was found on the ground beneath the window. But it could be an intentional mislead (not sure why he would when he hid nothing else), and there's no definitive evidence the killer actually went through the window.

LE probably know which direction the screen was cut from. If it was cut from outside, that would strongly suggest the killer *did* enter from that location despite leaving no fibres. If it was cut from inside...

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Hey @FacelessPodcast check this out - a place where one can buy the statue. I have never found a similar image of the statue before.

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This website is japanese stone lanterns store sugita stonemasons.Introduce details of Gasho jizo.We are making a stone products of authentic Japanese garden

www.sugitasekizai.jp

Edit: it is very slightly different but it is very close

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

@FacelessPodcast

Hi! I’m new to the case and am listening to your podcast now and am really enjoying it.

Sorry if you already mentioned this/brought this up but I was wondering if you thought it could be possible that the perp was in Japan’s Air Force and participated in their exchange program with the Edwards Air Force base in California? Could that perhaps explain the sand found in the hip bag?

Strengthening Ties with Bilateral Exchange

For over 20 years, Yokota Air Base, Japan has participated in the Bilateral Exchange Program, in which Japan Air Self-Defense Force Airmen experience what it’s like to work as U.S. Air Force Airmen.

www.edwards.af.mil

I was wondering too if it is possible that the perp thought they had some type of diplomatic immunity, perhaps due to their parents’ work, and that is why they were unconcerned about leaving evidence behind? Along these lines, perhaps with immunity the perp already planned to leave the country, with or without family, further reducing their concern about leaving evidence?

I can’t help but wonder why instead of spending New Year’s Eve with their own family, the perp chose to horrifically slaughter another one. Did anyone notice the perp’s absence during the celebrations? Did the perp not feel welcomed or did not want to spend the holiday in their own home so they chose to invade another’s instead?