Jason will be re-tried October 10

[Just the Fax]

Thanks no coincidences. Much clearer in my head now. I was missing the fact that there would have been a way into the staircase from the first floor, i.e., he entered through the side glass doors (likely unlocked at that time) and then slipped into the staircase (missing the first floor hallway camera), pushed the camera up, etc.

Were there cameras in the fourth floor hallways that should have showed him coming or going?

I wonder if any of the jurors grappled with the same questions. Perhaps the Prosecution needs to outline how he could have missed the cameras, along with mileage/gas explanation, in their closing arguments in October.

Excellent question jerseygirl!
Yes, this is the actual camera aiming at the elevator of the 4th floor. Perhaps that is why he used the east stairwell at midnight, as he knew that 4th floor hall camera would catch him in the hall (tamper-proof).

I guess he did not notice the first floor camera above the glass exit door?

 

[Just the Fax]

His lawyer is too smart to let him testify again. The burden is still on the state to prove he returned to Raleigh. They didn't accomplish that the first time around and I think they'll fail in round two.

JLY will do what he wants....always has, always will.

 

[Just the Fax]

an unplugged camera in a hotel hours away isn't proof of murder. It was plugged back in before Young could have returned from Raleigh. Could have been unplugged for any number of reasons such as staff wanting a smoke break or somebody sneaking in unregistered guests. The manager testified it happened before.

The prosecution can't prove Young returned to Raleigh. The shirt he wore isn't important if they can't prove he returned and they didn't.

Yes they did.
The proved a pair of HP shoes he owned were in blood at the scene (missing)

They proved a witness saw his SUV and identified his face at 5:30AM buying gas, 45 minutes south of his hotel.

They proved the NY delivery girl saw a light colored SUV parked at the home around 3:30AM

They proved the shirt he was seen wearing at 12AM (2 1/2 hours before the murder) was missing the next day.

 

[No Coincidence]

Originally Posted by MyBelle View Post
an unplugged camera in a hotel hours away isn't proof of murder. It was plugged back in before Young could have returned from Raleigh. Could have been unplugged for any number of reasons such as staff wanting a smoke break or somebody sneaking in unregistered guests. The manager testified it happened before.

The prosecution can't prove Young returned to Raleigh. The shirt he wore isn't important if they can't prove he returned and they didn't.

What you aren't understanding MyBelle, is that the prosecution is using the shirt as part of the proof, and youre saying the case has to be proven first for it to have significance. You are missing a couple of very very important aspects: The understanding to look at the evidence as a whole and not individual "one offs", and the ability to infer ( to derive logical conclusions from premises known, or assumed to be true). A valid form with true premises will always have a true conclusion.

 

[No Coincidence]

Nice work, JTF.

There was absolutey no motive for anyone else aside from JLY, as the purse was left untouched on the kitchen floor.

Also, they did not find a cutter, any trace of cigars, or a lighter at the scene of him "smoking a cigar", or in his belongings. Now I understand this isn't his job to prove, but lack of evidence is evidence- and that is clear right here.

Gracie had absolutely no reason or motive to lie about the night she saw Jason Young. She is a gas station attendant with a memory of people who disrespect her. I wonder if they dusted the gas pump for prints at all when Gracie came forward... its a long shot I'm sure but wouldn't that have been a nice cushion.

No one leaves their hotel rooms propped open with valuables inside (ie: laptop) while they go outside and smoke and read the paper. It just doesnt make any sense. Especially since his reasoning for staying quite a distance from the meeting the next morning was that his plan was to drive until he was exhausted and couldn't drive any further. Not that doesnt sound like somebody who would stay up to read and smoke, does it? If he had that energy, he would have just driven to his ultimate destination! This is asinine.

Lets mention that he wouldn't have known the door was going to stay propped open until after he walked out--- making it completely irrational for him to have walked out without his key. I'm guessing (using a few brain cells and common sense) that there wasn't a sign on the door that said, "This door is weird and doesnt lock when it's closed. I hope you enjoy your very unsafe and unsecure stay."

Oh, and one last thing- He gave up 15 Mil and custody of his daughter to keep from incriminating himself. I understand that it is ones own right not to testify against oneself, but IMO he lost every ounce of self worth, respect, integrity, and validity the day he gave up Cassidy. How can anyone listen to anything that comes out of his mouth after the prosecution team proved his word is worth less than sand.

 

[icefun]

you go girl...........they key here is they need to find a jury that knows that real life isn't CSI TV.....If the courts had to have video/computer evidence on every crime.....there wouldn't be any criminals - they would just all walk free.

So, North Carolinian's...let's grow a brain and some common sense and get this monster behind bars for all our sakes.

 

[No Coincidence]

you go girl...........they key here is they need to find a jury that knows that real life isn't CSI TV.....If the courts had to have video/computer evidence on every crime.....there wouldn't be any criminals - they would just all walk free.

So, North Carolinian's...let's grow a brain and some common sense and get this monster behind bars for all our sakes.

#1- Jury with common sense and inference skills.
#2- Prosecution that can put together a sentence. Specifically without "um and uhhh" in it. Must think critically and quickly.
#3- JTF replaces all members of prosecution team.

 

[borndem]

How do you know the perp wasn't wearing gloves when the camera was unplugged or moved?

His prints not being on the camera does not prove he didn't move the camera, one can only say that there was no physical evidence found that proved he touched that camera. But there is some DNA linking him to the rock that was in the door. Not a definitive match, no, but 3 of his DNA markers were found on that rock.

It comes down to how much coincidence can there be before one begins to think "hey, that's a lot of coincidences in one night/morning, the very night that guy's pregnant wife is brutally murdered."

BBM - Indeed, Mad74.

He invented (while his pants were on fire up there on the stand, BTW) the use of the stick in the door instead of the rock simply (and weakly, IMO) because of those 3 markers on that rock. :liar:

And, of course, it was not pointed out, nor shown, that there was not a shrub close enuff for him to reach for a stick as a prop while holding the door open ... <sigh> ... Just like JTF's snapshot of the door and the shrubs did show. I remember it... Too bad the prosecutors/detectives didn't have that shot.

 

[borndem]

JLY had 2 doors at the end of the stairwell. Door 1 was a glass, often used, regular entrance hotel door. It would have needed a keycard, but maintenance, the hotel sign, and office staff testified that this door automatically unlocked at 6am, and thus would not have required a keycard to enter. The 2nd door was the all steel door to the right of the glass door. This entered directly into the stairwell. My understanding is that the camera was ABOVE the glass door, facing the hallway. I mistook the angle when I first heard the evidence, that the camera was pointed AT the door. This is not the case, from what I have deduced.

The reason why he was even on the camera having to explain his trip to the desk was a LAST MINUTE ERROR on his part. He got turned around and exited from the wrong stairwell (there were 2, one on each side of the hotel), making it absolutely necessary to come up with an alibi and ask for the newspaper. This is because the unplugged camera was on the opposite side so he had now been filmed in a place he thought he already took care of. Had he come down the correct stairwell he would have exited through the steel door and gotten into his car, no hiccups.

When he came down the wrong stairwell, he was forced to make contact with the front desk, and proceed on to the correct stairwell. When he got into the correctly formatted stairwell, he put the rock in the door and moved on with his night. When he got back from the trip home he noticed the camera had gotten plugged back on (Maintenance man) and he tilted it up. Presumably so he would not be on film coming back in, and also he could tell that someone noticed he had unplugged the camera... so he didnt want to unplug it again and create a ruckus.

I hope this helps. Also, here is the original thread in which we all discussed the camera/view/leaving hotel incident in great detail.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139531&highlight=plugged+unplugged+camera&page=12

:goodpost:

 

[jerseygirl48]

You guys rock! Sure hope the prosecution can explain the "camera situations" the same way you do!

One more question. Someone upthread said he gave up 1.5Mil? What's that all about? Insurance he didn't claim or something???

 

[borndem]

#1- Jury with common sense and inference skills.
#2- Prosecution that can put together a sentence. Specifically without "um and uhhh" in it. Must think critically and quickly.
#3- JTF replaces all members of prosecution team.

AMEN to that!!

 

[tarheel8600]

You guys rock! Sure hope the prosecution can explain the "camera situations" the same way you do!

One more question. Someone upthread said he gave up 1.5Mil? What's that all about? Insurance he didn't claim or something???

No Coincidence posted that JY gave up 15(fifteen)Mil and his daughter. He was referring to the WDS that Linda and Meredith Fisher filed against JY. He didn't show up in court to defend himself so he could avoid being deposed. The North Carolina judicial system officially named JY the "slayer" of MY, and the Fishers were awarded this amount. This paved the way for Meredith to file for visitation rights to see Cassidy. A couple of weeks later, JY voluntarily gave up primary custody of his daughter to again avoid being deposed. Meredith didn't go into this thinking she would get custody of Cassidy, but she did.

Even before the WDS, JY never filed for Michelle's life insurance of 1Mil because he would have had to answer questions to do that. JY no hable ingles at the time, apparently.... What parent who faced the responsibility of raising a young child alone would willingly give up that much financial security? Only a parent who had something to hide, I believe, would do that. It suggests a consciousness of guilt. It's not like JY was ever described as an unselfish person. Everything I heard about him from testimony indicates he was an extremely self-absorbed man - having to be center-of-attention even if he had to do "tricks" in front of others to get that attention. He hesitated none to use any woman he could for his own pleasure. He cared nothing for his wife or the other women - only for himself was JY ever concerned.

Avoidance was this slayer's primary defense mechanism until he took the stand at trial. This is why I believe the ADAs weren't ready for him. They thought he'd never speak.

Well, he did speak. And, IMO, he will again. I just hope they're ready this time.

 

[jerseygirl48]

Thanks Tarheel. I knew about the WDS and Meredith's surprise custody. I must have skipped over the part about a $15MM award. I did not know about his failure to claim $1MM life insurance. Wow .... just wow ... I couldn't agree more on the consciousness of guilt aspect.

 

[tarheel8600]

Thanks Tarheel. I knew about the WDS and Meredith's surprise custody. I must have skipped over the part about a $15MM award. I did not know about his failure to claim $1MM life insurance. Wow .... just wow ... I couldn't agree more on the consciousness of guilt aspect.

You have great questions, jg48. I think your questions about the video surveillance at the HI and the positions of the cameras should be addressed at the retrial. It may clear things up for some jurors.

Until I read your recent posts, I've been perplexed at the first jury's verdict. Your questions, though, have allowed me to think about how people who didn't know much or anything about the case would've considered things. I've been aware of the case since Nov. 2006 when it was first reported. I formed my opinion of his guilt after the no-show during the WDS and custody hearings. That pretty much convinced me that JY was in "CYA" mode.

The prosecution needs to hammer home:
1. The "odd" occurrences at the HI on the night that Michelle was murdered
2. The no forced-entry into the home
3. JY's ridiculous theory that it was easier to break off a twig from a bush several feet away to keep the exit door from closing than to take his keycard with him to regain entry into the HI TWICE
4. JY's remarkable decision that it was simpler to leave the door to his room open and his valuables unsecured than to use a keycard to open the door TWICE
5. The disappearance of clothing that JY says has nothing to do with the murder
6. JY's selfish behavior, i.e. multiple affairs, changing plans at the last minute with no thought of how his wife would feel about it, his email tantrum when he had to watch his daughter while MY worked and his decision to just take Cassidy to the pool and drink beer, his hope that MM was pregnant with his child instead of her husband's child
7. JY's email to his former fiancee declaring his undying love
8. The car accident in Brevard in which JY was driving and MY was a passenger a few months before MY's death
9. JY's missing shoes
10. JY's comment to his friend that the only thing worse than being married to MY would be to be divorced from her
11. JY's comment 2 months before the murder that he was done with it (the marriage)
12. Cassidy's life was spared, yet MY was brutally beaten over 30 times
13. JY's refusal to help police to even identify what might be missing from the house (if someone were innocent, I would think that identifying missing items from the house might help that person to verify his innocence as missing items would probably show up in a pawn shop or somewhere else and lead the police down the true murderer's path)
14. JY's first-ever time he asked MF to go to his house to retrieve something for him
15. JY's claim that he was looking to buy something for his wife for their anniversary, which was over a month late
16. JY's constant use of his cell phone the day after the murder until his MIL calls 4 times starting around 1:30 pm and he refuses to answer or call her back (cell phone records show he retrieved the messages she left him and that it was urgent for him to call her back)

These are just 16 things off the top of my head that JY will never be able to overcome if the prosecution will get a backbone, show some passion, and give the taxpayers of NC what they pay for - JUSTICE. The prosecution has to make an argument that people can believe. There are too many coincidences in JY's version of events - jurors should be seen just shaking their heads at the line JY has tried to feed them.

I live in JY's hometown and my family and friends live here, too. I don't want him here because I believe he will do this again if given the opportunity. There probably has been a war going on inside JY for a long time, and on the night of MY's murder, his evil side was unleashed. Once unleashed, evil will remain unleashed.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes they did.
The proved a pair of HP shoes he owned were in blood at the scene (missing)

They proved a witness saw his SUV and identified his face at 5:30AM buying gas, 45 minutes south of his hotel.

They proved the NY delivery girl saw a light colored SUV parked at the home around 3:30AM

They proved the shirt he was seen wearing at 12AM (2 1/2 hours before the murder) was missing the next day.

I watched the testimony and know they did not prove the shoes he owned were the same shoes that left the bloody print.

I didn't find the witness very credible. She seemed more than a little confused about details and the cops never did find the "regular" she claimed was also a witness.

I believed the NY delivery person when she said she saw the light-colored SUV. Jason owned a white SUV. I don't know too many folks who don't say white when they mean white.

No shirt was proved missing in any of the testimony I watched and it doesn't matter to me because I don't believe they proved he ever left the hotel premises that night at all.

They did prove the print left on the camera did not belong to Jason Young. When there is as much reasonable doubt as is in this case, no jury is going to agree to convict.

JMO.

 

[jerseygirl48]

Tarheel --

I watched most of the online trial hearings shortly after the CA trial as an experiment. I was reeling from the CA verdict -- kept asking myself how the "Pinellas 12" could have missed the obvious (still struggling with that ).

I was aware of the JY trial, but didn't keep up as both trials were occurring at the same time and I was invested in the CA trial. Decided to watch the JY trial after the fact to see how I would have voted if I was a juror. I intentionally did not research here -- wanted to see only what the jurors saw.

I'm embarrassed to say that I too would have voted not guilty. For me, it was a matter of thinking, "he probably did it, but I can't put someone away for the rest of his life based on the doubts (reasonable???) I have." The items that bothered me: #1 cameras, #2 gas station witness (she came off as angry and wanting to exact revenge on SOMEONE, but was it really JY?), #3 shoes, #4 Post Office worker. I could go on, but suffice it to say the prosecution never addressed my concerns about those items.

Afterwards, I told my friends and family about the experiment and how it helped me understand what occurred in the CA trial ... how I "knew" JY was guilty, but didn't feel the prosecution proved it ... and, although I still STRONGLY disagree with the Pinellas 12, it made it a little bit easier to understand what happened in the CA case.

As much as I LOVED (and still do) the prosecution team in the CA trial, I think they (and a lot of people) shared some of the same misplaced faith as the JY prosecution team. It all seems SO OBVIOUS to those who follow the story from the beginning. Holes are not discussed -- everyone is expected to see that the signs of guilt so far outweight the doubts that there is no way they will not be swayed. In retrospect, I think both were outdone by superior closing statements by the other side. Cheney Mason presented a brilliant chart about reasonable doubt in the CA closing -- the prosecution didn't address it.

Both teams failed to address the weaknesses head-on. Jurors need to be told that is OKAY to have questions about X, Y, Z ... but still be convinced beyond reasonable doubt if A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P point to GUILT. I heard one prosecutor give an example of a puzzle -- when one or two pieces are missing, you still know it's a cat when it's done.

Anyway, thought I'd explain where I was coming from. My research here on this thread has been an attempt to heal. But now, I'm invested, and hopefully won't miss a minute of the second trial.

-- JG

 

[borndem]

You have great questions, jg48. I think your questions about the video surveillance at the HI and the positions of the cameras should be addressed at the retrial. It may clear things up for some jurors.

Until I read your recent posts, I've been perplexed at the first jury's verdict. Your questions, though, have allowed me to think about how people who didn't know much or anything about the case would've considered things. I've been aware of the case since Nov. 2006 when it was first reported. I formed my opinion of his guilt after the no-show during the WDS and custody hearings. That pretty much convinced me that JY was in "CYA" mode.

The prosecution needs to hammer home:
1. The "odd" occurrences at the HI on the night that Michelle was murdered
2. The no forced-entry into the home
3. JY's ridiculous theory that it was easier to break off a twig from a bush several feet away to keep the exit door from closing than to take his keycard with him to regain entry into the HI TWICE
4. JY's remarkable decision that it was simpler to leave the door to his room open and his valuables unsecured than to use a keycard to open the door TWICE
5. The disappearance of clothing that JY says has nothing to do with the murder
6. JY's selfish behavior, i.e. multiple affairs, changing plans at the last minute with no thought of how his wife would feel about it, his email tantrum when he had to watch his daughter while MY worked and his decision to just take Cassidy to the pool and drink beer, his hope that MM was pregnant with his child instead of her husband's child
7. JY's email to his former fiancee declaring his undying love
8. The car accident in Brevard in which JY was driving and MY was a passenger a few months before MY's death
9. JY's missing shoes
10. JY's comment to his friend that the only thing worse than being married to MY would be to be divorced from her
11. JY's comment 2 months before the murder that he was done with it (the marriage)
12. Cassidy's life was spared, yet MY was brutally beaten over 30 times
13. JY's refusal to help police to even identify what might be missing from the house (if someone were innocent, I would think that identifying missing items from the house might help that person to verify his innocence as missing items would probably show up in a pawn shop or somewhere else and lead the police down the true murderer's path)
14. JY's first-ever time he asked MF to go to his house to retrieve something for him
15. JY's claim that he was looking to buy something for his wife for their anniversary, which was over a month late
16. JY's constant use of his cell phone the day after the murder until his MIL calls 4 times starting around 1:30 pm and he refuses to answer or call her back (cell phone records show he retrieved the messages she left him and that it was urgent for him to call her back)

These are just 16 things off the top of my head that JY will never be able to overcome if the prosecution will get a backbone, show some passion, and give the taxpayers of NC what they pay for - JUSTICE. The prosecution has to make an argument that people can believe. There are too many coincidences in JY's version of events - jurors should be seen just shaking their heads at the line JY has tried to feed them.

I live in JY's hometown and my family and friends live here, too. I don't want him here because I believe he will do this again if given the opportunity. There probably has been a war going on inside JY for a long time, and on the night of MY's murder, his evil side was unleashed. Once unleashed, evil will remain unleashed.

:goodpost: :clap: Very good list, tarheel! Thanks for putting it in one spot for us.

The only items that I would add to the list would be:

1. Where was the dog during this over-kill attack by strangers?
2. How does JY explain the blisters and bruise on his foot (feet)? Perhaps he wore the $10.00 Dollar General size 10 Franklins to portray a 2nd person at the "break-in." (I've seen this before when I sold shoes while on my summer jobs in HS. It can only come from wearing too-short shoes.)
3. Why was her purse left behind on the kitchen floor by 2 burglars? And why, if they had time to stand there and deliver 30+ blows to this woman, did they not take more time to steal more items?

Perhaps others might offer more, but as is, it's a good and thorough list and should be sent ASAP to the ADAs on this case. If they had pursued it the first go-round, JY would be in Central Prison :behindbar TODAY and for life.

.... :furious: ... :maddening:

Thanks again for taking the time to compile and share it with us!

 

[tarheel8600]

:goodpost: :clap: Very good list, tarheel! Thanks for putting it in one spot for us.

The only items that I would add to the list would be:

1. Where was the dog during this over-kill attack by strangers?
2. How does JY explain the blisters and bruise on his foot (feet)? Perhaps he wore the $10.00 Dollar General size 10 Franklins to portray a 2nd person at the "break-in." (I've seen this before when I sold shoes while on my summer jobs in HS. It can only come from wearing too-short shoes.)
3. Why was her purse left behind on the kitchen floor by 2 burglars? And why, if they had time to stand there and deliver 30+ blows to this woman, did they not take more time to steal more items?

Perhaps others might offer more, but as is, it's a good and thorough list and should be sent ASAP to the ADAs on this case. If they had pursued it the first go-round, JY would be in Central Prison :behindbar TODAY and for life.

.... :furious: ... :maddening:

Thanks again for taking the time to compile and share it with us!

Thank you, Borndem. These absolutely should be added to the list! Wasn't there another incident between the car accident and the murder where JY and MY were out on a boat and MY went overboard and struggled to make it back to the boat? I can't remember if that was testimony or something I just read somewhere.

 

[borndem]

Thank you, Borndem. These absolutely should be added to the list! Wasn't there another incident between the car accident and the murder where JY and MY were out on a boat and MY went overboard and struggled to make it back to the boat? I can't remember if that was testimony or something I just read somewhere.

Hi, 'heel -:seeya:- I do remember the car "accident" where they wound up in the river and she ultimately ended up losing the baby she was carrying.... but I can't recall a boating accident -- but I do have holes in my memory, probably because I try to keep up with so many of these awful crimes and Pieces OS who commit them. I'll try better to recall and look around.... Ohh, he's so repulsive -- a sick, selfish freak IMHO. :maddening:

 

[NCEast]

OT/////Brad Cooper case on Dateline tonight. Very interesting article in this morning's N&O, link below.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/19/1421747/cooper-defense-cost-340000.html

Good Morning All!!