JB's responsiblity - Did he know that Caylee was dead

[Boston]

Does anyone remember the case in California were a Neighbor of a 10 year old girl snuck into her home, kidnapped her, raped her & then buried her body in the desert?

I can't remember the Girl or the perp's name at the moment but the case was covered in depth by Court TV about 5 years ago

Anyway, after the perp was arrested & charged with her murder the Body still had not been discovered.

The perp was facing the Death Penalty & his Attorney was in the process of negotiating a deal with the DA's office.

The deal was that the perp would tell the girls family where he had disposed of the body in exchange for Life in prison instead of death.

During the negotiations the girls body was discovered & the DA's office called of the negotiations.

During the trial the Perps Attorney vigorously argued his clients innocence ..

"AFTER" the trial the public was made aware that the Attorney had known all along that his client was guilty & people were outraged because he had argued his innocence.

There was also the question of wether or not the Perp had told the Attorney where the Body was buried

Very similar to the question on this thread

Does anyone remember that Case...?

I'd like to look it up & see what has become of the Attorney

 

[ziggy]

Danielle VanDam - know it well. Perp = David Westerfield. I even attended the trial one day.

Edited to add: Defense atty: Steven Feldman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danielle_Van_Dam

Did not read the whole wiki article for accuracy tho.

 

[Boston]

Danielle VanDam - know it well. Perp = David Westerfield. I even attended the trial one day.

YES....!!!

Thats it...

I remember the Perps face...Bald Head & a thick Black Mustache

I hated that man...!!

Thank You

 

[ziggy]

Many complaints about Steven Feldmen were made, I think even Bill O'Reilly tried to get the Bar to investigate or something, but nothing ever came of it. He must have known she was dead at the hands of DW and STILL tried to mislead the jury. If an example is not made of this behavior, I fear it is bad for the justice system. A fair trial is one thing, but misleading jurors is unfair and unjust. Thankfully, they didn't buy it.

Also I should note, as a personality, Feldman was very obnoxious. I could see the jury recoil almost when he came near. His voice, his mannerisms - very grating on one's nerves. On the other hand the prosecutor was tall, had a nice voice and was pleasant to listen to. That shouldn't make a difference, but I think it does.

 

[Boston]

Danielle VanDam - know it well. Perp = David Westerfield. I even attended the trial one day.

Edited to add: Defense atty: Steven Feldman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danielle_Van_Dam

Did not read the whole wiki article for accuracy tho.

I just read Wik article....Thanks again..


I don't understand how that Attorney could be so morally Bankrupt that he would actually try & put the Blame of Danielle's death squarley on the shoulders of her mother when he knew his client was responsible.

 

[ziggy]

We'll have to wait and see, but if JB knew where Caylee's body was I sure hope that the system will see to it that none of KC's defense attorneys try to mislead the jury with insinuations that SODDI.

In Westerfield, the bug experts battled it out as the defense tried to say that Danielle's body was placed after DW was in custody or under surveillance IIRC, something quite similar.

I think the science will be able to give the jury the information that the body was there a very long time and not dumped when KC was in jail or out on bail.

I don't see that the defense has much to go on.

 

[debbie0604]

NO he would not have to report it. Moreover he can still provide an adequate defense as long as he doesn't put her on the stand knowing that she will lie. As a matter of fact, he should provide an adequate defense to avoid appellate issues. We are all entitled to that.

The burden is on the state to prove their case, it's not for the defense to prove she didn't do it. If the state has the goods there will be a conviction. if they don't have the goods it shouldn't go to court in the first place.

Remember, many of our criminal laws were actually put into place to protect the innocent, but it doesn't always work that way..

This is an extremely interesting story for those that are not familiar with Alton Logan

Which is why we hardly ever see any murderer take the stand to testify and be cross examined in court. Most oftentimes, they are guilty, have told their lawyers, and their lawyers can't have them get up on the stand and run the risk of lying in court. :bang:That's what I believe anyway. (With the exception of the M Bros).

 

[eddeva]

Then its ok for them to go into court and lie about everything? Maybe lawyers need to take an oath the tell the truth before a trail.

this is where i'm confused; why would honesty hinder your ability to have a fair trial?

 

[mysteriew]

Isn't it appalling!! I too was dumbfounded when I learned from a lawyer on WS's that JB did not have to report, and in fact, if I understood correctly, as her lawyer, he should not report where Caylee's body was if he found that info out from KC and she instructed him not to report it. Isn't that a *advertiser censored*! I do believe that poster also added that he is not allowed to knowingly mislead the court though. I wish I would have asked if that includes misleading the public thru the media. Don't know about that one.

IMO, I think we are all sickened by this because this situation doesn't come down the pike very often. I am sure most defense attorneys have personal/professional morals that prevent them from continuing to defend a client who has confessed to killing their 2 year old child as an innocent person. Most moral attorneys, I would imagine, would say, "ok you keep your mouth shut and I will try to get you the best deal I can". Most would not continue to tell reporters and the court including the judge, that their client is innocent, that said child is still out there some where, needs to be found, LE aren't doing their jobs, etc etc etc. ANY attorney who tries to get a known killer completely off is one low life individual, who should not be allowed to practice law in our country. MY OPINION ONLY.

US law says the client is innocent until proven guilty. That means the state has to prove they are guilty, the defense doesn't have to prove they are innocent. So even if they are guilty, it is up to the state to prove it.

Actually attorneys will usually say that their job is not to judge the client- that is the jury's job. The attorney's job is to make sure the state proves the accusations against the client. And sometimes that means taking advantage of any reasonable doubt in the case.

Sacrosanct in the law is the absolute right to privacy between attorney and client. Which means that anything the client says to her attorney or to his employees is protected. And the attorney or his employees cannot be forced to tell. And they have no duty to report anything they are told, except with the exceptions that have been mentioned above- if the attorney is aware the client or witnesses are going to lie to the court or if the attorney has knowledge of a crime about to be committed.

And yes, the defense attorney often knows if his client is guilty or not.

 

[sumbunny]

I have lived too interesting a life to be under any illusions about anything to do with the legal system.. it has almost nothing to do with true guilt or innocence, it has everything to do with one side winning over the other.. like a giant chess game.

Neither side is more moral or seeking real justice than the other, they are just trying to win their case. Plenty of guilty people walk free, and plenty of innocent people wind up in prison, or put to death. The chances of being found guilty or innocent vary a great deal depending on race, gender, social background, and wealth.

On the other side of the coin, their is the double jeopordy thing.. after someone is found innocent they can write books about how they might have 'hypothetically' done it after all.

All that said, it is still true that the legal system works most of the time, for most people.. all we can do is hope if and when we are involved with it, it works out fairly for us. And do what we can to improve it where it is obviously badly flawed.

Alot of innocent people have been put to death? Wow! How many?

 

[mysteriew]

Then its ok for them to go into court and lie about everything? Maybe lawyers need to take an oath the tell the truth before a trail.

Lawyers don't testify to the court.

JB would be in the wrong if he allowed someone to get up in front of the court and say they saw Caylee last month and she told them her name and who her mother was. He would also be in the wrong if he allowed a witness to say that they saw someone else killing Caylee (if KC has told him that she did it.) But as far as asking the state to prove that KC was involved in Caylee's death, that is his job. When he says his client is innocent, he means that he doesn't have to admit to his client's guilt unless it is proven in court that she is guitly.

JB can however lie to the public. And it happens often by defense attorneys. That actually isn't illegal, and as long as they don't attach a name to it (SODDIT) they can't get into trouble. If they knowing attach a name to it (like Zenida) knowing that person is not guilty then they can get into trouble.

 

[MAMABEAR]

This is probably OT, but I wished somebody would walk to her cell--unlock it and tell her she is free. I am sick to death of all the hoopla/circus/zoo/liars/smart azzes/law breakers/slime. Let er out. Let er out. Maybe a protester will get hold of her.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Lawyers don't testify to the court.

JB would be in the wrong if he allowed someone to get up in front of the court and say they saw Caylee last month and she told them her name and who her mother was. He would also be in the wrong if he allowed a witness to say that they saw someone else killing Caylee (if KC has told him that she did it.) But as far as asking the state to prove that KC was involved in Caylee's death, that is his job. When he says his client is innocent, he means that he doesn't have to admit to his client's guilt unless it is proven in court that she is guitly.

JB can however lie to the public. And it happens often by defense attorneys. That actually isn't illegal, and as long as they don't attach a name to it (SODDIT) they can't get into trouble. If they knowing attach a name to it (like Zenida) knowing that person is not guilty then they can get into trouble.

Thank you for this post. So, Jose can hint at an innocent person's guilt in the defense of his client, but he can't come out and say the person's name and accuse them of murder ? I really think he will go w/ the SODDIT defense and am curious as to how he might go about it.

Oh, one more thing...I remember Jose saying in court, a while back, that everyday he realizes more and more how innocent his client is (not exact quote). I wonder about this statement of his, given what you said about defense atty's not being able to say their client is innocent, in court, if they know them not to be.

 

[essies]

This is probably OT, but I wished somebody would walk to her cell--unlock it and tell her she is free. I am sick to death of all the hoopla/circus/zoo/liars/smart azzes/law breakers/slime. Let er out. Let er out. Maybe a protester will get hold of her.

Don't give up MAMABEAR-just draw some strength from everyone here at WS!!:grouphug:We've got a long way to go yet till Caylee gets justice! It'll happen!!:blowkiss:

 

[MAMABEAR]

Don't give up MAMABEAR-just draw some strength from everyone here at WS!!:grouphug:We've got a long way to go yet till Caylee gets justice! It'll happen!!:blowkiss:

Thanks! I needed that.:blowkiss:

 

[jjgram]

Don't give up MAMABEAR-just draw some strength from everyone here at WS!!:grouphug:We've got a long way to go yet till Caylee gets justice! It'll happen!!:blowkiss:

:clap: Thanks for the REMINDER: JUSTICE ~ WILL ~ FOLLOW ! ! !


:detective: = GRRRREAT WORK ! ! ! !
:thumb: :star2:
:smiliescale: :cop: = G R R R R R EAT WORK ! ! !
:usa: :Justice: raying:
:grouphug: = All you Web Sleuthers and ALL working for JUSTICE ! ! !
:treadmill: of Lies with the "A" Family ! ! !
inocchio: inocchio:
:censored: :ziplip: :liar:
:behindbar + in due time as the Justice System WILL WORK !!!

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

 

[travelgal]

Does anyone remember the case in California were a Neighbor of a 10 year old girl snuck into her home, kidnapped her, raped her & then buried her body in the desert?

I can't remember the Girl or the perp's name at the moment but the case was covered in depth by Court TV about 5 years ago

Anyway, after the perp was arrested & charged with her murder the Body still had not been discovered.

The perp was facing the Death Penalty & his Attorney was in the process of negotiating a deal with the DA's office.

The deal was that the perp would tell the girls family where he had disposed of the body in exchange for Life in prison instead of death.

During the negotiations the girls body was discovered & the DA's office called of the negotiations.

During the trial the Perps Attorney vigorously argued his clients innocence ..

"AFTER" the trial the public was made aware that the Attorney had known all along that his client was guilty & people were outraged because he had argued his innocence.

There was also the question of wether or not the Perp had told the Attorney where the Body was buried

Very similar to the question on this thread

Does anyone remember that Case...?

I'd like to look it up & see what has become of the Attorney

Sorry, Boston, I don't remember that case but it is eerily similar in some ways. If you find the case coverage I would be interested in reading it.
Thanks! :blowkiss:

 

[travelgal]

Post of the Year! Something is disarmingly wrong with this system I am so sick and disillusioned by these facts, that it's hard to write and live in a country with a Justice system such as this Call me naive, I wear my heart on my sleeve, but I beleive in what's right baring none!

Then, our Justice System is predicated on the best of the best of Actors, who can deliver the most convincing "spin" on the reality of truth! knowing their client is guilty, but yet have a "license to Lie" ( all in affording someone's right to a fair trial)

Truthfully, I can say this is my worst day, here on WS, coming to terms with a Justice System, that breaches the cost of Humanity.

I am right there beside you, Reseeva! It is very disheartening to realize that our system doesn't always work and has lots of broken places in need of repair. I have often wondered why I dislike some of the defense attorneys so intensely - it is becoming clearer now. No matter how discouraged I feel about American Justice, I am often reminded that it is a lot better than many other places in the world.

 

[jjgram]

Does anyone remember the case in California were a Neighbor of a 10 year old girl snuck into her home, kidnapped her, raped her & then buried her body in the desert?

I can't remember the Girl or the perp's name at the moment but the case was covered in depth by Court TV about 5 years ago

Anyway, after the perp was arrested & charged with her murder the Body still had not been discovered.

The perp was facing the Death Penalty & his Attorney was in the process of negotiating a deal with the DA's office.

The deal was that the perp would tell the girls family where he had disposed of the body in exchange for Life in prison instead of death.

During the negotiations the girls body was discovered & the DA's office called of the negotiations.

During the trial the Perps Attorney vigorously argued his clients innocence ..

"AFTER" the trial the public was made aware that the Attorney had known all along that his client was guilty & people were outraged because he had argued his innocence.

There was also the question of wether or not the Perp had told the Attorney where the Body was buried

Very similar to the question on this thread

Does anyone remember that Case...?

I'd like to look it up & see what has become of the Attorney

Not sure but name of old case
might have been
VanDam

It was a sad one... I remember it...

Just not 100% on name...

T H A N K S ~ for seeking ~ Justice ~ for Little Angel CAYLEE !

& Helping ALL C H I L D R EN !

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

 

[snow_walker]

Someine asked how many innocent people have been executed. The answer of course is that no one knows. but there are some documented case:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_there...innocent_person_executed_in_the_United_States

It says "Yes, there have been 111 people exonerated (freed) while waiting, and a dozen or so found innocent after execution. http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/deathpenalty/ "

I suspect the numbers are much much higher, but those are the ones they have documented proof of.