Jeff Shapiro

[narlacat]

I agree Tezi.
IMO, the reason Fleet fell out with John is because of the sequence of events in the basement that morning.
Fleet knew Jonbenet's body wasnt there when he looked in that room. Someone moved Jonbenet's body.

 

[tezi]

Thanks everyone for your compliments! I have been thinking about FW for a long time. I can't imagine the pain he and his family have gone through courtesy of the Ramsey's.

I think if this case ever goes to trial or gets resolved, there are going to be some real eye-opening tidbits from the White's.

 

[tezi]

I agree Tezi.
IMO, the reason Fleet fell out with John is because of the sequence of events in the basement that morning.
Fleet knew Jonbenet's body wasnt there when he looked in that room. Someone moved Jonbenet's body.

Exactly narlacat! JR moved her body when he went missing for that hour or 45 minutes. FW knows that she wasn't there at 6 in the morning. He is also probably pretty peeved that the Ramsey's seem to care about their public image more than their daughter! And I don't believe for one instant that FW or PW told the Ramsey's to go to CNN and make a public statement. I think they wanted them to talk to LE and stop hiding behind their legal team. The way I see it, FW figured if they didn't have anything to hide, why hide behind lawyers? I think that FW figured that they knew something about JB's demise and that is why the legal eagles were called in so soon! Oh, how I would love to know what the Whites know!!!!!!

 

[tezi]

Excellent post, Tezi. I couldn't agree with you more. I've never understood the FW bashing, and never will. I hope the truth comes out someday, but seriously doubt it ever will.

Well, you know those Ramsey supporters have to have someone to blame, so why not FW?

 

[narlacat]

The White's talking and or Burke talking.....could solve this case.

 

[tezi]

The White's talking and or Burke talking.....could solve this case.

Oh yeah!

 

[GuruJosh]

If Fleet White is such a saint, and if it's true he "went to jail to defend his principles", and given how physically close to the events he was, and given his former friendship with John and Prscilla's friendship with Patsy and Daphne's with JB, if he's such a saint, why do people need to write "if only Fleet and Burke would talk"?

If Fleet CAN talk, i.e. if he has info relevant to the case (the implication with saying "wait for Fleet or Burke to talk" is that both Fleet and Burke "know things" that they haven't said), then.... why HASN'T he talked?

The forty-something (at the time... is that right?!) retireee who (according to the "official version", member theories excluded) was the first to scan the wine cellar, a man of principle who "went to jail for what he believed"... if you think he COULD talk, then why WON'T he? He's not an 18 year old highschool graduate, learning social skills, drinking beer and trying to pick up chicks, like Burke. He's a "man of principle" who "shouldn't be bashed" ("Fleet-bashing?" everyone else in this case gets bashed around on these forums)

Could someone fill me in, my knowledge of Fleet isn't good. Why is he ruled out as a suspect, apart from "being a nice guy"?

 

[GuruJosh]

Don't you think that Fleet and Priscilla could have made a lot of money by selling their story? Yet, they haven't.

Yeah... because they were so RICH in the first place that Fleet "retired" at an age when most men are in the business prime of their life. Is it true that the Whites were even wealthier than the Rams?

If the real story ever comes out, the White's will be the heroes for keeping their silence. They only want justice for JB, nothing more, nothing less.

Why won't Fleet let the "real story come out"? what's the deal with this guy?

 

[tezi]

If Fleet White is such a saint, and if it's true he "went to jail to defend his principles", and given how physically close to the events he was, and given his former friendship with John and Prscilla's friendship with Patsy and Daphne's with JB, if he's such a saint, why do people need to write "if only Fleet and Burke would talk"?

If Fleet CAN talk, i.e. if he has info relevant to the case (the implication with saying "wait for Fleet or Burke to talk" is that both Fleet and Burke "know things" that they haven't said), then.... why HASN'T he talked?

The forty-something (at the time... is that right?!) retireee who (according to the "official version", member theories excluded) was the first to scan the wine cellar, a man of principle who "went to jail for what he believed"... if you think he COULD talk, then why WON'T he? He's not an 18 year old highschool graduate, learning social skills, drinking beer and trying to pick up chicks, like Burke. He's a "man of principle" who "shouldn't be bashed" ("Fleet-bashing?" everyone else in this case gets bashed around on these forums)

Could someone fill me in, my knowledge of Fleet isn't good. Why is he ruled out as a suspect, apart from "being a nice guy"?

IMO, he has told the police what he knows, not the DA. He has probably also told the Grand Jury what he knows. I think he is trying to save the integrity of the case, by not running his mouth.

He was ruled out because his DNA didn't match, he had witnesses to prove where he was, and he had absolutely no motive to kill JB.

 

[GuruJosh]

he had absolutely no motive to kill JB.

but NO ONE in this case had a motive to kill JB.

What was Patsy's motive? bed wetting? Burkes? erotic sadism in a 9 year old? They're not motives in my book. A motive is a longer-term reason. The idea of a bed-wetting rage or an accidental erotic death or even a jealous Nintendo-squabble death are not motoves, more "explanations".

i'm not a lawyer so i don't know the right term But i hope you get my drift.

The DNA matches nobody in the case. Nobody had a motive. So why are you excluding Fleet on those bases?

 

[narlacat]

I dont think Fleet did it Guru, but who knows?
Something went down between him and John and I think that something was the fact that Fleet knew that Jonbenet's body must have been moved.
I have no idea why Fleet doesnt talk, if he holds information that could solve this case.
Im not sure why I exclude him, I guess Ive never read anything that makes him suspicious in my mind.

 

[BeeBee]

I dont think Fleet did it Guru, but who knows?
Something went down between him and John and I think that something was the fact that Fleet knew that Jonbenet's body must have been moved.
I have no idea why Fleet doesnt talk, if he holds information that could solve this case.
Im not sure why I exclude him, I guess Ive never read anything that makes him suspicious in my mind.

IMO the only thing that "went down" is the fact that Steve Thomas filled the mans head full of crap. As in a lot of cases, police will go to a couples best friends and try to turn them against them. The same was tried in the Dowaliby case but the friends of the Dowalibys stood firm behind them anyway. It's a "divide and conquer" method. And it's shameful but legal.

It's my understanding that Steve Thomas even visited Fleet White in jail. Close as two bugs in a rug.

 

[Voice of Reason]

All those pageants? From mid 1994 to the end of 1996 I think she was in about 14 pageants. Compare that to the schedule of young swimmers, gymnasts, horse riders, dancers etc, etc, etc.

I don't recall anyone defending young swimmers, gymnasts, horse riders, or dancers. They can have similar lives where their parents put a lot of pressure on them. 2 and 1/2 years is 30 months. 14 pageants is about 1 every other month. Considering JBR was about 4 when this began, I'd say that's a lot.

 

[Voice of Reason]

That is why we think he has valuable information! His one comment about how he would have seen JB's body when he first checked the wine cellar has caused tremendous controversy and discussion. This is what makes us all want to know what he knows. Unfortunately, I think he has shared most of it with LE. However, that doesn't necessarily get us any further. Let's say FW is 99% sure he would've seen JB's body earlier that day. Where does that get you? It makes cops suspect JR. I think they already went there...

 

[TLynn]

This thread did say Jeff Shapiro - and I LOVE Jeff Shapiro.

When the Globe was ready to blackmail Steve Thomas (it's been a long time but I believe it was over his mother's suicide?) Shapiro wouldn't stand for it. He refused and even set up the head of the tabloid with taped phone conversations - I heard them and Shapiro was great.

He was young when he went to Boulder and intent on finding the real killer...but became disillusioned. Jeff Shapiro was actually the one person I truly admired.

He put himself in the middle of the D.A.'s office and the BPD - tried to go straight to the source. Tried to find the truth.

 

[Eagle1]

Amen to that, especially the bereaved parents, who, I concede obviously know SOMETHING, but so does everyone else in the case. Probably the all know the same thing, whatever that is. FW and Susan Stine, and I guess everyone at a party on the 23rd tried to cover up a 911 call right after JonBenet had been crying and didn't "feel pretty", evidently had been molested. Does everyone remember that he claimed his partying mother was in a hospital and he'd been trying to call about a prescription or something?

Stine turned away police at the door. I say JonBenet had tried to call 911 because none of the grownups were taking care of her. And that it may have caused the killer/molester to fear that she would find a way to tell. "Hence" her death two nights later, and doesn't it seem he knew the Ramseys' plans for that evening? One of their circle, I'd guess.

Does anyone remember way back, before MJenn's famous JAR theory, someone's long post about FW being in the house, (did they say all night?) and an accomplice getting out of the house about dawn, running across the back of the lot? Does anyone remember who witnessed that? I know there was a coverup that he was a neighborhood kid who'd spent the night with a friend, but running hard that early in the morning, so soon after Christmas when most were tired and relaxing, when this evil was going on, seems strange. I don't much believe in coincidences. Too easy to make up a cover story.

 

[tezi]

but NO ONE in this case had a motive to kill JB.

What was Patsy's motive? <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=bed%20wetting" onmouseover="window.status='bed wetting'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">bed wetting</a>? Burkes? erotic sadism in a 9 year old? They're not motives in my book. A motive is a longer-term reason. The idea of a bed-wetting rage or an accidental erotic death or even a jealous Nintendo-squabble death are not motoves, more "explanations".

i'm not a lawyer so i don't know the right term But i hope you get my drift.

The DNA matches nobody in the case. Nobody had a motive. So why are you excluding Fleet on those bases?

I'm excluding FW because his whereabouts can be verified for the times in question. I am also excluding him because I think what happened to JB was an accident that morphed into a murder by way of cover-up by her parents.

Why do you think he had something to do with it? Is it because it isn't flapping his yap about what he knows? He's trying to save what little integrity this case has left, and for that he should be commended, not reviled.

TLynn, I do remember that Jeff Shapiro did stand up for Steve Thomas when the Globe was going to run that story. However, his actions prior to that were utterly dispicable. And he also harrassed ST's wife numerous times during the case.

 

[aussiesheila]

Good Grief, here we go Fleet White bashing again. He's one of the only people who has maintained integrity throughout this case. He cooperated with LE unlike JB's parents. Yes, he was hacked off at Alex Hunter et al., but who wouldn't be? Alex Hunter and Company couldn't track a bleeding elephant in ten feet of snow. And when it came out that Alex Hunter was giving interviews and suggestions on who to investigate to Jeff Shapiro, I think that little tidbit really gave the White's something to think about! Alex Hunter is dirty, has always been dirty, and always will, IMO. If you have any doubts just look up the Michael Manning case. Just like his sucessor. And don't even get me started on her, Trip DeMuth, or Peter Hofstrom.

Don't you think that Fleet and Priscilla could have made a lot of money by selling their story? Yet, they haven't. Fleet even went to jail, what does that tell you? It tells me he is a very honorable man who wants justice for a little girl who ate her last Christmas dinner at his home! IMO, Fleet cared more for JB than her own father did. I use the term "father" rather flippantly because he allowed Patsy to enter her in all those pageants and never put a foot down, as far as I can see. Whatever Patsy wanted, Patsy got. Money was no object. Even if it meant taking her daughter's childhood away.

BTW, Fleet White only wanted to review his statements to LE before being reinterviewed, a consideration granted to the Ramsey's. Why did Hunter oppose this? Because he knew they were telling the truth, and they were honest from the beginning, unlike the parents. So, why shouldn't it be granted to him and Priscilla? It's not like they tried to evade questioning by LE, like the Ramsey's did. And as far as Priscilla being jealous of Patsy, yeah right!!!! It seems that Priscilla has a husband who stands by her and loves her unlike someone named John Ramsey.

If the real story ever comes out, the White's will be the heroes for keeping their silence. They only want justice for JB, nothing more, nothing less.

great tezi,

I fail to see in what way Fleet White has maintained integrity throughout this case. If cooperating with LE is an indication of his maintaining his integrity as you seem to be suggesting, sure I agree with you, he certainly was cooperating with LE, and doing a lot more than that besides, like exerting great pressure on the BPD to ignore any evidence that suggested outsider involvement in the murder and to look only for evidence to implicate the Ramseys.

And yes our billionare Fleet White could probably make a lot of money by selling his story, but it might be a bit risky, the story would be closely scrutinised and might not hang together truthwise and he'd be up sh.. creek then, albeit a bit wealthier.

Please could you tell me what Fleet White went to jail for and for how long so that it can tell me what I need to know?

You say Fleet White wanted to review his statements and that Hunter opposed him. OK if that is so, why on earth would Hunter oppose someone he knew was telling the truth? Like FW was telling the truth first and now wanted to lie or was it the other way around? I cannot understand what you mean. I would have thought that Hunter was more likely worried that it would give FW a chance to cover up for an incriminating statement he had made previously, which was probably exactly what FW did want to do.

There is an argument that says the Ramseys did not try to evade questioning by LE as you claim, but that this was an untruth invented to discredit the Ramseys in the eyes of the public, most probably by those who were also pressuring the BPD to avoid finding the true perpetrators IMO.

So Priscilla was not jealous of Patsy and her husband stands by her and loves her, I’m glad to hear that, I’m just not sure that it means her husband could not have been involved in some way in the murder of JonBenet.

 

[aussiesheila]

How does "Mr. Mom" turn into a suspect? Patsy stated that Burke and JonBenet adored Fleet and said that Fleet would never hurt JonBenet.

Fleet is still feeling despondent about the day he looked into the wine cellar. He probably is convinced that JonBenet's body was not there earlier.

It’s called covering up and it’s what Patsy did. Covered up for Fleet and for all those she knew were involved. Had covered up for them probably for many years and continued after JonBenet’s death, until that is, she realised the police were going for HER. Now she’s done a turnaround, not 180 maybe just 75, so in a sense she’s still covering for them but pointing to them at the same time.

And Fleet is still feeling despondent..........my heart bleeds

No, Fleet was never convinced that JonBenet’s body was not there earlier. He went down to the cellar earlier, the minute he got to the house or so I've read, specifically to make sure it was in fact THERE. To pass the murder off as a kidnapping he had to make sure they had the body well hidden until it was safe to remove it from the house and get rid of it completely. Unfortunately John wrecked the plan by finding the body. So the kidnapping had to be converted to a family incest-linked murder.

Yes Fleet probably IS still feeling despondent. The kidnapping scenario failed and things have taken such a lot of time and effort ever since. Will it ever be over?

 

[tezi]

great tezi,

I fail to see in what way Fleet White has maintained integrity throughout this case. If cooperating with LE is an indication of his maintaining his integrity as you seem to be suggesting, sure I agree with you, he certainly was cooperating with LE, and doing a lot more than that besides, like exerting great pressure on the BPD to ignore any evidence that suggested outsider involvement in the murder and to look only for evidence to implicate the Ramseys.

And yes our billionare Fleet White could probably make a lot of money by selling his story, but it might be a bit risky, the story would be closely scrutinised and might not hang together truthwise and he'd be up sh.. creek then, albeit a bit wealthier.

Please could you tell me what Fleet White went to jail for and for how long so that it can tell me what I need to know?

You say Fleet White wanted to review his statements and that Hunter opposed him. OK if that is so, why on earth would Hunter oppose someone he knew was telling the truth? Like FW was telling the truth first and now wanted to lie or was it the other way around? I cannot understand what you mean. I would have thought that Hunter was more likely worried that it would give FW a chance to cover up for an incriminating statement he had made previously, which was probably exactly what FW did want to do.

There is an argument that says the Ramseys did not try to evade questioning by LE as you claim, but that this was an untruth invented to discredit the Ramseys in the eyes of the public, most probably by those who were also pressuring the BPD to avoid finding the true perpetrators IMO.

So Priscilla was not jealous of Patsy and her husband stands by her and loves her, I’m glad to hear that, I’m just not sure that it means her husband could not have been involved in some way in the murder of JonBenet.

Aussiesheila,

I think that Fleet White has maintained integrity in this case by not talking to anyone but LE and the Grand Jury. He hasn't sold his story, he seems to want justice for JB.

I don't think that FW wanted to change any bit of his statements that he gave to police, I feel he just wanted the same courtesy extended to him that was given to the Ramsey's. I think he wanted to refresh his memory as to exactly what he told the police that day.Alex Hunter is very two-faced. He didn't like FW because FW would not bow down to the mighty DA. I lived in Boulder County for over 20 years, and I know exactly how that office operated while Hunter was DA. Research the Michael Manning case and you will see how badly he messed that one up all on his own. There is also the case of Robert Redford's daughter whose boyfriend was shot and the under the table dealing that went on with that case. I can't remember the names of the two men right now, I'm sure someone here does.

I don't think the Ramsey's had any intentions of cooperating with LE. I know a lot of folks think that they were supposedly unjustly treated by LE because LE wanted to question them ASAP. They hid behind thier lawyers. There was a case in Boulder that happened around the same time as JB's murder, and the parents were told not to leave town, and they fully cooperated with LE and didn't lawyer up. They were also less well to do than the Ramsey's. The infamous CNN interview convinced me that the Ramsey's knew a lot more than they were telling about the death of thier daughter. Supposedly Patsy wasn't well enough to speak to LE but she could go on national TV? That makes no sense whatsoever to me. And why did John get an attorney for his ex-wife and why did she refuse to answer any questions about thier relationship? Somethings just not right there.

I think FW went to jail for refusing to testify in one of the sideshow lawsuits involving a player in the Ramsey case. I really don't remember. I just know he went to jail. I think he did something like 30 days. I think he thought the lawsuit was a witchhunt to find out what he knew and he didn't want to spill the beans in that forum. That is another reason why I think he is trying to protect the integrity of this case.

Why do you feel that FW is involved in the murder of JB? He most certainly wasn't jealous of the Ramsey's. And I'm sure he is much more weathly than they are/were at the time. Not that that matters. From all accounts that I have read and heard, FW loved JB and is devasted over her death. Afterall, she was a friend of his daughter's.