minor4th
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originally posted by ingra1327
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The jury's questions and Jodi's answers- no discussion
Juror Questions 124-144
(This is my second # 124 but since it is 124 on hellinor's question list, I'm going to stick with that to make things less complicated. Thanks, hellinor!)
124: Given that there are guiding principles such as the law of attraction and practices like passing down journals to future generations do you feel the Mormon religion encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?
A: Encourages bearing (burying? I can't tell) the truth?
J: Yes
A: Well to be clear, the Law of Attraction and the Mormon Church are two separate animals. They intertwine in some ways in certain scripture, but they are completely separate. In Mormonism, being a religion, um I felt there was an unspoken undercurrent in the church which puts pressure on members to present a squeaky clean image, however, I know that's not church policy, even though you feel that pressure when you're in the church, my understanding of official church policy is if you have transgressed in anyway no matter how embarrassing, and if it's a serious transgression, it's dealt internally within the church, internally inside but also with any church authority such as your bishop or any other appropriate church authority. The Law of Attraction, the way I embraced it four or five years ago, I was in denial. I didn't want to deal with the negative things I was going through because I felt that by dealing with them, I would be focusing on them and then that would attract more of them, rather than dealing with them in a healthy way to eradicate them. So...I kind of lost track of the question.
J: The question was do you feel the Mormon church encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?*
A: The Mormon religion, yes, you are encouraged always to tell the truth no matter how bad it is. That doesn't mean broadcasting it, but going through the appropriate channels for repentance.
125: Can you give a few examples of what might be considered negative other than those already discussed?
A: Negative experiences
J: It says negative information through journals.
A: Well, I don't know that that means specifically to me, but other than violating the chastity, violence, that kind of thing. Words that you speak, um there's doctrine in the church which says that every word that flows from our mouth we will be held accountable for those words one day, um, so that's an example of something negative. I know some Mormon's that drink, that's an example of something negative. I know gay Mormons and homosexuality is prohibited in the church, that's something the Church considers negative, it's not my philosophy. Um, there are things to that effect, plenty of things that are going on, so I mean I guess there would be an example as far as the homosexuality goes because Travis wanted to have a threesome with another woman and I wasn't, I mean I'm not gay, but it was something I was contemplating going along with, so that, obviously, in addition to the sexual sin depending on what interaction I may or may not have had with that woman could also be a violation of another law in that regard.
126: How do you determine when you will tell the truth and when you will not tell the truth? What are the determining factors?
A: Anything that related back to my involvement in Travis's death or de-edifying him in any way, I covered up, or I attempted to cover up. So the lies that I told after all this happened were directly related to those two main things.
127: When did you find Travis's gun?
A: It would have been October, November sometime in the fall, it was before Christmas 2007, I know it was before Christmas I don't remember the exact time in the fall
J: Was it kept loaded in the closet?
A: He told me
M: Objection, hearsay
A: He assured me
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained Wait for another question
128: Today, March 5, 2013, you stated before lunch that you think you filled the car up first. If you did have the third gas can, as we saw in several hypothetical situations after lunch, do you see if possible to put 8.301 gallons of gas in the car (exhibit 237.011) and the 9.59 gallons and 2.774 gallons for a total of 12.368 gallons in the remaining three gas cans. Exhibits 237.011, 237.012 and 237.013?
A: Okay that was a lot of elements to that question. First, I didn't have three gas cans
M: Objection,
J: Overruled
A: I didn't have three gas cans, I believe we were discussing hypothetical if I had three gas cans, no it wouldn’t make sense to put only 2 gallons and change into only one gas can while filling up the others. And as far as whether I think I filled up the car first or not, I honestly don't know what came first. I do remember having the fear of filling the gas can, overfilling them because I didn't want overflow because it's a highly flammable substance, so I remember that so I can't say that I filled them all the way to their maximum capacity or not. Um, but I wouldn’t have only put two gallons in one if I filled up two more, I only had two anyway, so there were never three on that trip when I pulled out of Salinas.
129: You initially testified that sex was a way for Travis to relieve stress and later testified it was a way for him to relieve anger, which is correct?
A: Both are correct, um, anger was stressful and he used the term de-stress and sex was a way to de stress and it seemed like after he climaxed that he felt a lot more calm.
J: How do you know that?
A: Based on his demeanor and conversations we had regarding that and requests that he's made specifically to that of that nature and the term de-stressed.
130: Would a screwdriver be required to take of the license plates?
A: I heard
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained. Would a screwdriver be required to take of the license plates.
A: I believe so because Ryan had to borrow a screwdriver to
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained, sustained
131: Did you find it strange that only your license plate was messed with in that parking lot?
A: I don't know that only my license plate was messed with.
132: IF you were driving to a place that you had never been before, meaning Utah, why wouldn't you map out the different towns that would have gas stations or rest stations?
A: I did go to mapquest to determine the number of hours it might take and I printed out mapquest directions and I also printed out mapquest directions from San Diego to West Jordan as well as Pasadena or Los Angeles whichever area to West Jordan. Um, I wouldn't know what website to even visit, I guess I just could have gone to google and typed in where are the gas stations on I5 to bring all that up, I'm not aware of a website that specifically shows those things, that's for that purpose, I only know of mapquest and I printed directions that way because I relied on my GPS all these years, but I wasn't going to be taking that car with the GPS which usually just guided me and could tell me where the gas stations were.
133: Did you ever see a doctor for your memory issues?
A: I don't believe that I have memory issues that are really persistent, I just have trouble processing things under special circumstances. And June 4th is kind of in a class of it's own. And outside of those things I feel like I have a really good memory and I never thought to seek medical help or any kind of professional help for that.
134: If you were scared of Travis's anger and violence, why would you go upstairs while he was banging his head knowing he was already mad?
A: Well, Travis had never, one I didn't know he was banging head, I just knew what the steadying noise was, it was kind of a pounding, not incredibly loud, but loud enough to hear it from downstairs and two he had never been violent prior to that. I mean it wasn't violent, the only time he'd been physical was when he grabbed my wrist at the convention, so I didn't really fear physical harm from him at that point in time.
135: Did Travis ever tell you he kept his gun loaded?
A: He told me at one time that he did consider loading it, but he assured me that it was unloaded
136: If you did not think the gun was loaded, why chance grabbing a gun that may not be loaded instead of just running outside?
A: I grabbed the gun, not because I intended to shoot him, I grabbed the gun because my thought is that if a gun is pointed, you stop, whether it's loaded or not, I've always been taught you don't point guns at people, period, just as a safety precaution. So I can only imagine what I would do in that situation, if a gun were pointed at me, I would stop, and I was hoping that it would have that effect on him.
137: You stated that when you walked out of Starbucks you did not notice anything wrong with the car. How is it that the back license plate ended upside down?
A: I didn't see anyone turning anyone turning my license late upside down, nor did I notice the license plate when I walked out. What I noticed was kids skating away from my car. It's possible it could have happened
M: Objection
A: It's possible it could have happened at any point on my trip, I could have even rented the car that way
M: Objection
J: Sustained
138: Why did you plan on going to see John Dixon when you were on your way to Utah to see Ryan?
A: John Dixon was a friend, um, although there was somewhat of an interest there is was something that I never let grow because he wasn't a church member so it would be kind of a poor investment of my heart to get attached to somebody that wasn't a member of the church. What I was going down there for was he had a friend who either owned a gallery or ran a gallery where he hung some of the greats which is Van Gogh and Monet and when I told him I painted he said We could make a space in this gallery for you, I could hang it right next to a Monet and Van Gogh. It sounded like a very big, it sounded like a very exciting thing for me because one of my goals at that time was to get my paintings into galleries.
139: How many men are you willing to be involved with at the same time?
A: Well, it depends on the level of intimacy. As far as a boyfriend, I have one boyfriend at a time, an intimate partner, one at a time. In the church
M: Objection, unresponsive, N: Explaining about her beliefs
J: Overruled
A: In the church you're encouraged to date around and find somebody you might be compatible with and not to get too serious with somebody that you don't think you would be very compatible with. So Mormons are encouraged to go on group dates and not spend too much time together with only one person unless you are certain you are going to get serious with that person.
140: Did you ever seek medical help for you mental condition?
A: I'm not sure what mental condition that refers to.
J: Have you ever taken medication for your memory issue?
A: No
J: Did you ever tell anyone about your condition prior to the killing?
A: I don't really thing I had much of a condition prior to the killing. Just, I mean, I have ADD I think because I space out
M: Objection
J: Sustained
141: You told us you weren't able to make out the license plate leaning up against the curb because you are nearsighted and did not get glasses until 2010. What is your prescription in each eye?
A: My understanding is my prescription is -2.5 and -2.25
142: Is there anyone who saw you shaking during a fight with Travis?
A: Dan, Dan saw me visibly upset after, um, but I don't think anybody say us fighting during, at least to the level of fights where it would cause me to shake.
143: Do any of your journal entries or any other items discuss you shaking, or blacking out or getting scrambled?
A: Possibly illusions to getting scrambled, but I have not blacked out, except like I said those two times, when I, that were alcohol induced. One time I did induce blacking out with some friends but it was earlier than that and that was a one time incident, but I didn't journal blacking out because there were no incidents during those times that I was journaling and shaking, I shoe but I wrote, but I didn't write that I was shaking, so probably only when I got scrambled, there were times that I would write things.
144: You claim to have memory lapses or gaps during times of stress such as when you're being yelled at or grilled. How is it you have such vivid and specific memories of violence and yelling by Travis such a long time ago if this is the case?
A: With the violence it's not that I have to process the English language, I feel those things. I know he broke my finger because it's still broken, well it's healed but it's crooked. I know he choked me out because I woke up from being unconscious. As far as him yelling, I know he's yelling because there's a loud volume and it has an effect on me, I don't know all the things he said, for example, the night he was, said disparaging things about my grandfather and my brother, those stand out, that's all I can remember of the three hour session of him screaming at me before I was able to leave. So many things were said. Mean things. And I didn't process them all some I wrote down and that's when he made me tear them out, so I didn't write them after that.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The jury's questions and Jodi's answers- no discussion
Juror Questions 124-144
(This is my second # 124 but since it is 124 on hellinor's question list, I'm going to stick with that to make things less complicated. Thanks, hellinor!)
124: Given that there are guiding principles such as the law of attraction and practices like passing down journals to future generations do you feel the Mormon religion encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?
A: Encourages bearing (burying? I can't tell) the truth?
J: Yes
A: Well to be clear, the Law of Attraction and the Mormon Church are two separate animals. They intertwine in some ways in certain scripture, but they are completely separate. In Mormonism, being a religion, um I felt there was an unspoken undercurrent in the church which puts pressure on members to present a squeaky clean image, however, I know that's not church policy, even though you feel that pressure when you're in the church, my understanding of official church policy is if you have transgressed in anyway no matter how embarrassing, and if it's a serious transgression, it's dealt internally within the church, internally inside but also with any church authority such as your bishop or any other appropriate church authority. The Law of Attraction, the way I embraced it four or five years ago, I was in denial. I didn't want to deal with the negative things I was going through because I felt that by dealing with them, I would be focusing on them and then that would attract more of them, rather than dealing with them in a healthy way to eradicate them. So...I kind of lost track of the question.
J: The question was do you feel the Mormon church encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?*
A: The Mormon religion, yes, you are encouraged always to tell the truth no matter how bad it is. That doesn't mean broadcasting it, but going through the appropriate channels for repentance.
125: Can you give a few examples of what might be considered negative other than those already discussed?
A: Negative experiences
J: It says negative information through journals.
A: Well, I don't know that that means specifically to me, but other than violating the chastity, violence, that kind of thing. Words that you speak, um there's doctrine in the church which says that every word that flows from our mouth we will be held accountable for those words one day, um, so that's an example of something negative. I know some Mormon's that drink, that's an example of something negative. I know gay Mormons and homosexuality is prohibited in the church, that's something the Church considers negative, it's not my philosophy. Um, there are things to that effect, plenty of things that are going on, so I mean I guess there would be an example as far as the homosexuality goes because Travis wanted to have a threesome with another woman and I wasn't, I mean I'm not gay, but it was something I was contemplating going along with, so that, obviously, in addition to the sexual sin depending on what interaction I may or may not have had with that woman could also be a violation of another law in that regard.
126: How do you determine when you will tell the truth and when you will not tell the truth? What are the determining factors?
A: Anything that related back to my involvement in Travis's death or de-edifying him in any way, I covered up, or I attempted to cover up. So the lies that I told after all this happened were directly related to those two main things.
127: When did you find Travis's gun?
A: It would have been October, November sometime in the fall, it was before Christmas 2007, I know it was before Christmas I don't remember the exact time in the fall
J: Was it kept loaded in the closet?
A: He told me
M: Objection, hearsay
A: He assured me
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained Wait for another question
128: Today, March 5, 2013, you stated before lunch that you think you filled the car up first. If you did have the third gas can, as we saw in several hypothetical situations after lunch, do you see if possible to put 8.301 gallons of gas in the car (exhibit 237.011) and the 9.59 gallons and 2.774 gallons for a total of 12.368 gallons in the remaining three gas cans. Exhibits 237.011, 237.012 and 237.013?
A: Okay that was a lot of elements to that question. First, I didn't have three gas cans
M: Objection,
J: Overruled
A: I didn't have three gas cans, I believe we were discussing hypothetical if I had three gas cans, no it wouldn’t make sense to put only 2 gallons and change into only one gas can while filling up the others. And as far as whether I think I filled up the car first or not, I honestly don't know what came first. I do remember having the fear of filling the gas can, overfilling them because I didn't want overflow because it's a highly flammable substance, so I remember that so I can't say that I filled them all the way to their maximum capacity or not. Um, but I wouldn’t have only put two gallons in one if I filled up two more, I only had two anyway, so there were never three on that trip when I pulled out of Salinas.
129: You initially testified that sex was a way for Travis to relieve stress and later testified it was a way for him to relieve anger, which is correct?
A: Both are correct, um, anger was stressful and he used the term de-stress and sex was a way to de stress and it seemed like after he climaxed that he felt a lot more calm.
J: How do you know that?
A: Based on his demeanor and conversations we had regarding that and requests that he's made specifically to that of that nature and the term de-stressed.
130: Would a screwdriver be required to take of the license plates?
A: I heard
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained. Would a screwdriver be required to take of the license plates.
A: I believe so because Ryan had to borrow a screwdriver to
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained, sustained
131: Did you find it strange that only your license plate was messed with in that parking lot?
A: I don't know that only my license plate was messed with.
132: IF you were driving to a place that you had never been before, meaning Utah, why wouldn't you map out the different towns that would have gas stations or rest stations?
A: I did go to mapquest to determine the number of hours it might take and I printed out mapquest directions and I also printed out mapquest directions from San Diego to West Jordan as well as Pasadena or Los Angeles whichever area to West Jordan. Um, I wouldn't know what website to even visit, I guess I just could have gone to google and typed in where are the gas stations on I5 to bring all that up, I'm not aware of a website that specifically shows those things, that's for that purpose, I only know of mapquest and I printed directions that way because I relied on my GPS all these years, but I wasn't going to be taking that car with the GPS which usually just guided me and could tell me where the gas stations were.
133: Did you ever see a doctor for your memory issues?
A: I don't believe that I have memory issues that are really persistent, I just have trouble processing things under special circumstances. And June 4th is kind of in a class of it's own. And outside of those things I feel like I have a really good memory and I never thought to seek medical help or any kind of professional help for that.
134: If you were scared of Travis's anger and violence, why would you go upstairs while he was banging his head knowing he was already mad?
A: Well, Travis had never, one I didn't know he was banging head, I just knew what the steadying noise was, it was kind of a pounding, not incredibly loud, but loud enough to hear it from downstairs and two he had never been violent prior to that. I mean it wasn't violent, the only time he'd been physical was when he grabbed my wrist at the convention, so I didn't really fear physical harm from him at that point in time.
135: Did Travis ever tell you he kept his gun loaded?
A: He told me at one time that he did consider loading it, but he assured me that it was unloaded
136: If you did not think the gun was loaded, why chance grabbing a gun that may not be loaded instead of just running outside?
A: I grabbed the gun, not because I intended to shoot him, I grabbed the gun because my thought is that if a gun is pointed, you stop, whether it's loaded or not, I've always been taught you don't point guns at people, period, just as a safety precaution. So I can only imagine what I would do in that situation, if a gun were pointed at me, I would stop, and I was hoping that it would have that effect on him.
137: You stated that when you walked out of Starbucks you did not notice anything wrong with the car. How is it that the back license plate ended upside down?
A: I didn't see anyone turning anyone turning my license late upside down, nor did I notice the license plate when I walked out. What I noticed was kids skating away from my car. It's possible it could have happened
M: Objection
A: It's possible it could have happened at any point on my trip, I could have even rented the car that way
M: Objection
J: Sustained
138: Why did you plan on going to see John Dixon when you were on your way to Utah to see Ryan?
A: John Dixon was a friend, um, although there was somewhat of an interest there is was something that I never let grow because he wasn't a church member so it would be kind of a poor investment of my heart to get attached to somebody that wasn't a member of the church. What I was going down there for was he had a friend who either owned a gallery or ran a gallery where he hung some of the greats which is Van Gogh and Monet and when I told him I painted he said We could make a space in this gallery for you, I could hang it right next to a Monet and Van Gogh. It sounded like a very big, it sounded like a very exciting thing for me because one of my goals at that time was to get my paintings into galleries.
139: How many men are you willing to be involved with at the same time?
A: Well, it depends on the level of intimacy. As far as a boyfriend, I have one boyfriend at a time, an intimate partner, one at a time. In the church
M: Objection, unresponsive, N: Explaining about her beliefs
J: Overruled
A: In the church you're encouraged to date around and find somebody you might be compatible with and not to get too serious with somebody that you don't think you would be very compatible with. So Mormons are encouraged to go on group dates and not spend too much time together with only one person unless you are certain you are going to get serious with that person.
140: Did you ever seek medical help for you mental condition?
A: I'm not sure what mental condition that refers to.
J: Have you ever taken medication for your memory issue?
A: No
J: Did you ever tell anyone about your condition prior to the killing?
A: I don't really thing I had much of a condition prior to the killing. Just, I mean, I have ADD I think because I space out
M: Objection
J: Sustained
141: You told us you weren't able to make out the license plate leaning up against the curb because you are nearsighted and did not get glasses until 2010. What is your prescription in each eye?
A: My understanding is my prescription is -2.5 and -2.25
142: Is there anyone who saw you shaking during a fight with Travis?
A: Dan, Dan saw me visibly upset after, um, but I don't think anybody say us fighting during, at least to the level of fights where it would cause me to shake.
143: Do any of your journal entries or any other items discuss you shaking, or blacking out or getting scrambled?
A: Possibly illusions to getting scrambled, but I have not blacked out, except like I said those two times, when I, that were alcohol induced. One time I did induce blacking out with some friends but it was earlier than that and that was a one time incident, but I didn't journal blacking out because there were no incidents during those times that I was journaling and shaking, I shoe but I wrote, but I didn't write that I was shaking, so probably only when I got scrambled, there were times that I would write things.
144: You claim to have memory lapses or gaps during times of stress such as when you're being yelled at or grilled. How is it you have such vivid and specific memories of violence and yelling by Travis such a long time ago if this is the case?
A: With the violence it's not that I have to process the English language, I feel those things. I know he broke my finger because it's still broken, well it's healed but it's crooked. I know he choked me out because I woke up from being unconscious. As far as him yelling, I know he's yelling because there's a loud volume and it has an effect on me, I don't know all the things he said, for example, the night he was, said disparaging things about my grandfather and my brother, those stand out, that's all I can remember of the three hour session of him screaming at me before I was able to leave. So many things were said. Mean things. And I didn't process them all some I wrote down and that's when he made me tear them out, so I didn't write them after that.
