John -"Something really important to attend to"

[Lacy Wood]

Just a comment on how kids react...Recall the San Diego(?) case and TV movie in which the police were convinced the boy killed his sister because he seemed detached and played a hand computer game in the home after the murder?...They even ignored the Charles Manson lookalike who was going to neighborhood houses that night looking for a girl! Anecdotal of course, just interesting.

 

[tipper]

The characterization of a "normal" response from Burke was in regards to any indication of sexual abuse.
His reactions and "affect" were NOT normal for a ten yr old kid whose sister was MURDERED and assaulted in his home.
John Ramsey describes how Burke reacted (or I should say FAILED to react like he even cared) to the news of his sister's death in their book.
He says when they (FINALLY) reunited with Burke on the 26th, Patsy put her arm around him and said, "Honey, JonBenet's gone to heaven." Burke simply nodded his head and RAN OFF TO PLAY!!!!!!!!
This in their own words. Not realizing how incredibly abnormal and bizaare that whole scene is!
Any other 10 yr old boy who had just been told his sister had been found murdered (not to mention the fact that he was there in the house that morning with cops swarming and his parent's freaking out) - would have a million questions. (Just like he asked worried questions that morning... or was he just worried about HIMSELF?)
Most kids that age would want to KNOW what happened.
How did she die?
Who did it?
How did they get in?
Did the cops CATCH him?
Is he going to come get me? Or you or daddy?
I'm SCARED!!!
But no.
Again - Burke has "lack of affect" and is "indifferent."
Unbelievable.

I think there is waaay more about this boy than has been revealed publicly.
Just because the Ramseys had alot of money does NOT mean they weren't dysfunctional. Those kids were INDULGED. That is quite obvious.
And indulgence of children is a form of child abuse.
It is a way the parents have their OWN needs met. Through indulging their children.
It's much more about the parent than it is the child.
It's basically a matter of having their needs met in inappropriate ways.
(Same thing a pedophile does by the way.)

I think Burke knew his sister had been murdered in the basement. How much detail he was told beyond that we don't know. It is quite normal for children to not want to talk about a traumatic situation. Not all children are full of questions. In fact, many of them don't want to think or talk at all about what happened. That's what therapists (not the parents) are for. I think Burke falls in this group.

Also Bernhard's characterization was not limited to sexual abuse.

PMPT ppbk p.137
"He didn't seem to be holding anything back and he appeared to be dealing with the absence of his sister in the expected way."

From all I've read the Ramsey kids were polite, fun-loving, well-adjusted kids who had friends, did well in school, and got along well with each other and their parents.

What was it Jacqueline Kennedy said "If you bungle raising your children, I don't think whatever else you do matters very much." Even ST agrees John and Patsy had done a good job raising them.

Can you give some specific examples of how they were indulged?

 

[Tristan]

Does anyone remember the quote where Burke was asked (I believe by a psychologist) if he had any secrets, and he responded
"If I had any, I wouldn't tell, because then they wouldn't be secrets."

It was something to that effect. I don't remember where I read it, but I
do remember reading it.

I had always thought that John was the perp, but after many years of contemplation, I am leaning much more towards Burke.

Either way, he strikes me as an odd kid.

 

[Toltec]

Tipper...what about Burke's reactions years later...no post-traumatic-disorder...nothing...nada. No bad dreams...no sleeping with Mom and Dad.

When asked how Burke was doing 4 years later, Patsy responds, "Oh, he is a typical 13 year old."

 

[tipper]

Tipper...what about Burke's reactions years later...no post-traumatic-disorder...nothing...nada. No bad dreams...no sleeping with Mom and Dad.

When asked how Burke was doing 4 years later, Patsy responds, "Oh, he is a typical 13 year old."

We don't know about his dreams and other behaviors etc.

My daughter has PTSD. She was kidnapped and assaulted when she was 9. You wouldn't know it from her behavior. She just graduated a year early. Completed 11th &12th grade simultaneously at the same time she was earning just over a year's college credits. Straight As and now has a full scholarship. In addition she schools and conditions her Arabian endurance horse and does the stable work for all 3 horses plus any boarders we may have.

Does she have nigtmares? Not now. Is she a little faster off the mark than most kids to reach a panic state? Yes. Is she more suspicious of strangers? Yes. She says she also on rare occasions gets caught in something like a memory loop and has trouble not thinking about what happened for an hour or so. But that happens less and less often. Maybe once or twice a year now.

She's a strong kid. But she also had an excellent therapist and we worked very hard at (even before an arrest was made) trying to "get back to normal."

As far as Patsy saying he's typical; I rarely mention what happened. I certainly wouldn't share information with the public. Especially a public that has been howling for my arrest. If my daughter was having problems it would be something private, not to be submitted for the latest edition of the National Enquirer.

 

[capps]

We don't know about his dreams and other behaviors etc.

My daughter has PTSD. She was kidnapped and assaulted when she was 9. You wouldn't know it from her behavior. She just graduated a year early. Completed 11th &12th grade simultaneously at the same time she was earning just over a year's college credits. Straight As and now has a full scholarship. In addition she schools and conditions her Arabian endurance horse and does the stable work for all 3 horses plus any boarders we may have.

Does she have nigtmares? Not now. Is she a little faster off the mark than most kids to reach a panic state? Yes. Is she more suspicious of strangers? Yes. She says she also on rare occasions gets caught in something like a memory loop and has trouble not thinking about what happened for an hour or so. But that happens less and less often. Maybe once or twice a year now.

She's a strong kid. But she also had an excellent therapist and we worked very hard at (even before an arrest was made) trying to "get back to normal."

As far as Patsy saying he's typical; I rarely mention what happened. I certainly wouldn't share information with the public. Especially a public that has been howling for my arrest. If my daughter was having problems it would be something private, not to be submitted for the latest edition of the National Enquirer.

Tipper,

First and foremost,I am so sorry to hear of the tragedy that happened to your daughter. I'm glad she was able to bounce back from it,and lead,at most part a normal life.

I agree with your last paragraph. The Ramsey's I'm sure are not going to readily tell outsiders about any family members problems,just so they can exaggerate it in the next days supermarket tabloid.

 

[Camper]

Particularly IF IF I am correct in my thought that when JR went to the basement the first time alone, HE found 'JAR's semen blanket, spread out yet again on the floor with the Dr. Seuss book on it etc. AND (JR) packed it away. Somehow, whomever found JonBenet and the note MISSED the blanket.

The Ramsey family came totally unstable that night and for all of the nights since then, what a horrible spot to find yourself in.

Truth does in fact set a person free. It is not too late to tell the truth NOW, for it is NEVER too late to tell the whole truth.

I suspect that blanket played a role in the 911 call of Dec 23rd, and JR knew all about that too.

Therefore HE would have 'important things to attend to in GA'.

Burke may be fine indeed, because he just may be totally innocent. I do wonder about how fine the rest of the family is.



.

 

[capps]

BlueCrab,

Part of your post (#14) on this thread you said:

Some of the Ramsey family's comments suggest that perhaps JAR had been molesting JonBenet and the family knew about it and disapproved, but had been taking a relatively tolerant posture toward it.

I don't remember hearing or reading that any where,can you please give a source. Thanks!

 

[duffy]

I have always found it extremly doubtfull that Burke at ten yr. old committed this murder. I also think it is very strange to find a ten yr. old's semen on a blanket. That is awfully young to ejaculate. There was definately some very adult-like sexual activity going on in this house.

 

[SisterSocks]

PR: I said, "How was your day Burke?" He said, "Fine." That's it. "Anything you want to say?" "Nope."...I said "We are all done, you know, I am really proud of you for going through that." He said, "Yeah, that was the most boring thing I have ever done in my life."

HUH????

Burke could have been bored. Why would Patsy lie about Burke's mood?

With so many apparent lies, why would a falsehood about Boredom be an issue?



JMO

 

[SisterSocks]

I have always found it extremly doubtfull that Burke at ten yr. old committed this murder. I also think it is very strange to find a ten yr. old's semen on a blanket. That is awfully young to ejaculate. There was definately some very adult-like sexual activity going on in this house.

Duffy, it was not Burke's semen on spread from the suitcase. It belonged to John Andrew Ramsey.

JMO

 

[sissi]

Does anyone know why the semen stained sheets were in the suitcase?
The suitcase was out on loan by both JAR and LHP at different times, do we know who had "possession" of it last? Do we know if it came back with dirty sheets, not likely, since the fibers from the contents of that suitcase were fibers found on her body and in the body bag that carried her out. Can this then suggest that whoever murdered Jonbenet, put the sheets , the book and the duvet into that suitcase. We need to know the place where the murderer found these items, likely since JAR had stayed there within just a few days of the murder, the sheets were in the dirty laundry. Likely the suitcase was empty before the murder. What kind of person intends to steal other's sheets? A homeless person?

edit, semen on a young man's sheets is a given

 

[lawman]

does anybody have a source for the fibers from the items in the suitcase being on jbr.
also when it was known what was on the blanket.
also sissi i believe the items in the suitcase are definetely somehow involved in the crime.

 

[BlueCrab]

Does anyone know why the semen stained sheets were in the suitcase?
The suitcase was out on loan by both JAR and LHP at different times, do we know who had "possession" of it last? Do we know if it came back with dirty sheets, not likely, since the fibers from the contents of that suitcase were fibers found on her body and in the body bag that carried her out. Can this then suggest that whoever murdered Jonbenet, put the sheets , the book and the duvet into that suitcase. We need to know the place where the murderer found these items, likely since JAR had stayed there within just a few days of the murder, the sheets were in the dirty laundry. Likely the suitcase was empty before the murder. What kind of person intends to steal other's sheets? A homeless person?

edit, semen on a young man's sheets is a given

sissi,

There were no sheets in JAR's suitcase. The suitcase contained the bed blanket and matching pillow sham from JAR's room; a Dr. Seuss book with JAR's name on it; and JAR's semen on the blanket. (Fibers from the blanket were found on the genitals area of JonBenet.)

 

[BlueCrab]

does anybody have a source for the fibers from the items in the suitcase being on jbr.
also when it was known what was on the blanket.
also sissi i believe the items in the suitcase are definetely somehow involved in the crime.

lawman,

I think Lou Smit is one source about the fibers from the blanket being on JonBenet.

 

[lawman]

thanks bluecrab .

i believe that info about the fibres is mistaken, that`s why i was after a definite source.
the police thought the fibres in that area you mention may have been from the blanket, but was later proven incorrect(pmpt).however perhaps the fibers were on her clothes.

 

[nature_of_the_beast]

A theroy put fourth I read several years ago.
AMA study. Children can be effectivley "brainwashed" to not remember a specific event. (Especially if you have "big bucks" to hire big time doctors.)
Under age ten was the best age, and the 12 and 14 etc. according to the AMA. "Childrens memories can be washed so they will have no recollection of a specific event the rest of their lives."
The article went on to say had Burke done this dasterdly act on Jon Benet, he still would not remember having done so even in adulthood.
Something like that. I am recalling the article from memory.
R.M.:angel:

Voice, what you said could have been plausible if it weren't for the next choice that John Ramsey made directly after phoning his pilot with his plan to get his family out of the state - because he claims he feared for their safety. Were he truly fearful for his family's safety at that time - he would have said, "Oh my God - BURKE!! We've got to get to Burke and get him into our care and safety of our arms!"
But no. They didn't give him or his safety or his 'finding out' about his sister's death a single thought. They did NOT rush to him or even have him immediately brought to them! Instead they drove to a friend's house and left Burke alone for hours. Without them.
This is one of the BIGGEST reasons I think the Ramseys are knee-deep in this crime and cover-up.
They chose to distance themselves from Burke all day long that day.
And the other curious thing is how you never heard the Ramseys say that Burke himself was ever SCARED. Or frightened for HIS safety - as any normal ten year old boy woud be!

I just finished reading a book called, "High Risk - Children Without a Conscience". It is about children who are "unattached" and grow up to basically be sociopaths. No empathy for others and totally self-centered.
I am not saying this describes Burke Ramsey, but some things reported about this child make you wonder..... ("lack of affect" "indifferent" .... is how the psychologist described him when interviewed after the murder. Not "sad" or "scared for his safety".... but "indifferent")
I still wonder why the Ramseys picked up and left the state of Georgia (where John claims was their 'home' - at such a crucial time in a boy's life. He only had 2 yrs of high school left! I have boys this age.... believe me, you have to have a darned good reason to do that to them!! What was the real reason? Did Burke get into trouble in Georgia?? Makes you wonder if they needed to give him a fresh start far away....

 

[Rocky]

When John Ramsey's six-year-old daughter was just found tied up, sexually assaulted, likely tortured, and murdered, what would be on his mind?

If the person or persons who did this to JonBenet isn't foremost on his mind, then John's functioning on half a brain. JOHN IS OBVIOUSLY THINKING OF DEALING WITH THE KILLER.

So who's in Atlanta who has to be "attended to"?

isn't it strange the suspect came from here?

 

[wenchie]

Unbelievable, that John was making plans to fly out, while his daughter's dead body was still laying on the floor.

I think he wanted to get Patsy out of there before LE cornered her and got her to say the wrong thing or to contradict herself.