Josh Duggar charged with Receipt/Possession Child Sexual Abuse Material, 29 April 2021 *guilty* #3

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:

The thread is spinning in a few different directions, so please:

-Use this thread to discuss Jana: Jana Duggar Charged With Endangering the Welfare of a Minor, Sept 2021
-If someone has a differing point of view, please don’t hammer in your point of view. We all have different filters and experiences, and all posters are welcome to express their opinions.

Thanks and have a great weekend,
Tiff

 

[Ontario Mom]

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For me, I found Jinger's words overall bold and courageous. They put blame where blame belongs. I'm not sure I would have gone the "gratitude" route, but that's evidently Jinger's, and it does give her space to welcome the fact that Josh was convicted. It seems quite startling to me how plainly she speaks about his guilt, even though it's overlaid with the vocabulary of her faith.
Anyway, that's my analysis and my opinion. I'm kinda impressed to tell you the truth.

I couldn't agree more. Jinger's statement was certainly courageous.
It's overlaid with the vocabulary of her faith because this is how Christians view life and life's circumstances.
Through the lens of sound Biblical doctrine.

It's not everyone's cup of tea, and it's most certainly not the same "faith" as the fundamentalist traditions she was raised in.

 

[BeckyF]

To add to my previous post, I guess I see so many here who think that the parents couldn't care less about the girls, and just wanted to hide it or protect Josh. I haven't really seen evidence of that. I have a feeling that looking back they wish they'd done things much differently, and taken the bull by the horns at the outset.

There are things that I find disagreeable and some things downright awful about the Duggars, but I do think they did try to stop the behavior.

BBM
This is how they tried to stop the behavior:

Duggar Friend Testifies On Josh Duggar's Alleged Molesting Of Girls | Crime News (oxygen.com)

About halfway down the page is testimony by Bobbye Holt:

Josh moved in with the Holt family for several months in 2005 and Jim—who was an ordained minister—provided regular counseling. It was during that time that Bobye testified that Josh provided more details about what had happened with Jane Doe four.

"When she was sitting on his lap he put his hand under her pantaloons and under her panties," an emotional Bobye said in court, according to People, adding that he had touched the young girl inside her genitals.

He also allegedly talked about touching one of the girls while she was sleeping, but Bobye said the girl woke up and told her parents.

She testified that she had tried to talk with Michelle and Jim Bob about the latest revelations but was told they “didn’t want to hear it.”

 

[airportwoman]

Didn't want to hear it - I wouldn't either, but c'mon. That's not how this gets stopped, or better yet, prevented.

 

[BeckyF]

There is one is Forest City, Arkansas. Notable to my memory because that's where the Rapper TI was incarcerated for a time. Someone up thread said that Forest City doesn't house convicted sex offenders though.

Thank You for correcting me.

 

[mickey2942]

Article about people online raising funds for organizations that support victims of child abuse:

Josh Duggar trial raises awareness of child abuse | KNWA FOX24

I have been impressed by articles about Josh Duggar having "trigger warnings" prior to the article, and posts within the article to call for help with counseling services, referral services. That is excellent public service.

 

[RickshawFan]

There is one is Forest City, Arkansas. Notable to my memory because that's where the Rapper TI was incarcerated for a time. Someone up thread said that Forest City doesn't house convicted sex offenders though.

Not all take sex offenders (evidently the idea is not to isolate them or otherwise make them targets), and some have special programs for sex offenders. We also might not know if Josh has mental or medical issues that need to get taken care of at a special facility. Bottom line: I think we have to wait and see.
There’s one in Texarkana and one in Louisiana that have received sex offenders. They also get processed and oriented in TX. There might be an option there: it has a significant SO population.

 

[gitana1]

I agree. I think she did a really great job in expressing her views in light of her religious beliefs. I find it unreasonable to be bothered by her referencing God in that context. She however clearly ascribed blame to Josh and expressed pleasure at his guilt being exposed and his being held accountable for it.

It was nothing like the wishy washy mealy mouthed message from his parents. Their reference to "anyone hurt by CSAM" was so vague it could even mean they included Josh as being hurt by it. They ascribed no personal guilt to him at all from what I remember reading.

They never do. To this day they minimize his molestation of his sisters and flat out lie about what they know happened. And their statements show it’s likely they believe he’s innocent of his conviction.

 

[gitana1]

BBM
This is how they tried to stop the behavior:

Duggar Friend Testifies On Josh Duggar's Alleged Molesting Of Girls | Crime News (oxygen.com)

About halfway down the page is testimony by Bobbye Holt:

Josh moved in with the Holt family for several months in 2005 and Jim—who was an ordained minister—provided regular counseling. It was during that time that Bobye testified that Josh provided more details about what had happened with Jane Doe four.

"When she was sitting on his lap he put his hand under her pantaloons and under her panties," an emotional Bobye said in court, according to People, adding that he had touched the young girl inside her genitals.

He also allegedly talked about touching one of the girls while she was sleeping, but Bobye said the girl woke up and told her parents.

She testified that she had tried to talk with Michelle and Jim Bob about the latest revelations but was told they “didn’t want to hear it.”

Does it seem like he was actually trying to get someone to stop him by telling the truth?

 

[BeckyF]

Does it seem like he was actually trying to get someone to stop him by telling the truth?

I do believe so. Which, if true, he has been tormented for many years.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Does it seem like he was actually trying to get someone to stop him by telling the truth?

*Trigger warning*

This was a phenomenon I observed fairly frequently in Sex Offender Treatment Group. Some of them would become quite animated and focused when discussing the details of their offenses. Not because they were crying out for help (they were already in federal prison) but because re-living the events and memories was stimulating to them. Similar to a friend who is recounting a movie they just saw and enjoyed - the retelling allows them to re-experience the thrill and pleasure they felt during the watching of the movie.

In group, this kind of vicarious re-enjoyment was redirected and reframed into a discussion from the victim's perspective - fear and pain and hurt, instead of allowing the group to fixate on the excitement and reliving the experiences through their own eyes.

Bobye Holt obviously was not educated in the sexual offending cycle, lacked insight into into the dynamics of what Josh was doing, and no clue how to redirect him. Other than, perhaps, directing him to read the bible and pray to God. Not that she could possibly have been expected to. He should have been placed in a juvenile sex offender program with professionals who had specialized training. For several years, at least. jmo

 

[mickey2942]

*Trigger warning*

This was a phenomenon I observed fairly frequently in Sex Offender Treatment Group. Some of them would become quite animated and focused when discussing the details of their offenses. Not because they were crying out for help (they were already in federal prison) but because re-living the events and memories was stimulating to them. Similar to a friend who is recounting a movie they just saw and enjoyed - the retelling allows them to re-experience the thrill and pleasure they felt during the watching of the movie.

In group, this kind of vicarious re-enjoyment was redirected and reframed into a discussion from the victim's perspective - fear and pain and hurt, instead of allowing the group to fixate on the excitement and reliving the experiences through their own eyes.

Bobye Holt obviously was not educated in the sexual offending cycle, lacked insight into into the dynamics of what Josh was doing, and no clue how to redirect him. Other than, perhaps, directing him to read the bible and pray to God. Not that she could possibly have been expected to. He should have been placed in a juvenile sex offender program with professionals who had specialized training. For several years, at least. jmo

That is very true. Trying to wring a shred of empathy or understanding the victims point of view is impossible with this crowd. I used to show them movies, "media therapy", to move them forward.

It was astounding to me, how they could twist everything to their warped point view. Every single movie, no matter how heart wrenching, during their discussion of the media, completely turned the entire film around.

I was amazed. That level of psychopathy is never going to be "fixed". And really, sorry to say, anyone who really thinks those folks are going to get "rehabilitation" from a few hours of therapy a week...it ain't going to happen.

 

[CharlestonGal]

That is very true. Trying to wring a shred of empathy or understanding the victims point of view is impossible with this crowd. I used to show them movies, "media therapy", to move them forward.

It was astounding to me, how they could twist everything to their warped point view. Every single movie, no matter how heart wrenching, during their discussion of the media, completely turned the entire film around.

I was amazed. That level of psychopathy is never going to be "fixed". And really, sorry to say, anyone who really thinks those folks are going to get "rehabilitation" from a few hours of therapy a week...it ain't going to happen.

Yes, the victim empathy module was always the most frustrating and we worked on it for months and months. If one can grow a true empathy and compassion in offenders (of all kinds) it will stop some of them. Empathy and compassion is what stops most of us from hurting other people. We feel bad and we feel guilty because we have enough empathy to put ourselves in our victim's shoes - which feels very bad indeed.

I was never convinced we could "teach" empathy to adults that lack it, but it certainly does no harm to try. Their butts are in the seats anyway and who knows? It might save even one victim down the road.

But yeah, it was mostly like trying to teach Latin to a goat. jmo

 

[CharlestonGal]

Jill and Derrick:

“Today was difficult for our family. Our hearts go out to the victims of child abuse or any kind of exploitation,” the couple, who wed in 2014, wrote on Thursday. “We are thankful for the hard work of law enforcement, including investigators, forensic analysts, prosecutors and all others involved who save kids and hold accountable those responsible for their abuse.”

“We have been lied to so much that we wanted to hear the evidence for ourselves in court. After seeing all the evidence as it was presented, we believe that the jury reached a just verdict today, consistent with the truth beyond a reasonable doubt. … This trial has felt more like a funeral than anything else. Josh’s family has a long road ahead. We stand with them, we are praying for them, and we will seek to support them however we can during this dark time,” she and Dillard, 32, concluded.

Counting On's Jana Duggar Charged With Endangering a Minor

Please, Jill and Derrick, tell us more about these lies and the lying liars that told them. jmo

 

[SweaterGirl]

Interesting that Jinger's statement calls for "further justice." I am past all doubt that there are more secrets waiting to be exposed, and not just those involving Josh.

 

[gitana1]

*Trigger warning*

This was a phenomenon I observed fairly frequently in Sex Offender Treatment Group. Some of them would become quite animated and focused when discussing the details of their offenses. Not because they were crying out for help (they were already in federal prison) but because re-living the events and memories was stimulating to them. Similar to a friend who is recounting a movie they just saw and enjoyed - the retelling allows them to re-experience the thrill and pleasure they felt during the watching of the movie.

In group, this kind of vicarious re-enjoyment was redirected and reframed into a discussion from the victim's perspective - fear and pain and hurt, instead of allowing the group to fixate on the excitement and reliving the experiences through their own eyes.

Bobye Holt obviously was not educated in the sexual offending cycle, lacked insight into into the dynamics of what Josh was doing, and no clue how to redirect him. Other than, perhaps, directing him to read the bible and pray to God. Not that she could possibly have been expected to. He should have been placed in a juvenile sex offender program with professionals who had specialized training. For several years, at least. jmo

Holy smokes. That is a chilling thought.

 

[Dotta]

Yes, the victim empathy module was always the most frustrating and we worked on it for months and months. If one can grow a true empathy and compassion in offenders (of all kinds) it will stop some of them. Empathy and compassion is what stops most of us from hurting other people. We feel bad and we feel guilty because we have enough empathy to put ourselves in our victim's shoes - which feels very bad indeed.

I was never convinced we could "teach" empathy to adults that lack it, but it certainly does no harm to try. Their butts are in the seats anyway and who knows? It might save even one victim down the road.

But yeah, it was mostly like trying to teach Latin to a goat. jmo

"Teach Latin to a goat" hahaha
Thanks for a good laugh
Im still giggling!

 

[Friday Fan]

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I get such as spidey sense that it's all "about the money"...
And I get the impression that some of this denial regarding Josh is also "all about the money"

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Although it's hard to imagine the Duggar family shacked up in anything other than a 7,000 square foot complex, they used to live in a small three-bed, two bath rancher prior to 2006, according to In Touch Weekly. The house was first featured on 14 Children and Pregnant Again!, the Duggars' first televised special with TLC in 2004, and many fans couldn't believe the large clan was able to co-exist in the 2,450 square foot property.
Pics and more: What The Duggars' Lives Were Like Before The Fame


Scroll down to: "I will not allow the blankety-blank, social media to define me and my family......."
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[Arkay]

Although it's hard to imagine the Duggar family shacked up in anything other than a 7,000 square foot complex, they used to live in a small three-bed, two bath rancher prior to 2006, according to In Touch Weekly. The house was first featured on 14 Children and Pregnant Again!, the Duggars' first televised special with TLC in 2004, and many fans couldn't believe the large clan was able to co-exist in the 2,450 square foot property.
Pics and more: What The Duggars' Lives Were Like Before The Fame

I really wonder (and shudder) picturing how Josh was able to molest four younger sisters when they were all squashed together like that. Did it make it easier or harder? Easier I guess because they were in such close proximity, but I would have hoped for harder because the other siblings were so nearby, anyone could have woken up and spotted him.

Moot point, I know.

 

[nyvictoria]

I don’t think we’ll ever know the true extent of Josh’s sordid history. When he violated his sisters, was it one time or twenty? When he digitally raped a child under the guise of story time, was it one child, one time or twenty children, countless times?

For every rat you see…