Kennedy withdraws financial support for McCanns

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So he does not feel the McCanns need a media spokesman anymore? Madeleine is still missing.

Or he is not happy with the job Clarence has done?

Or he simply feels the need to economize?

He's a successful businessman--a very, very successful one. He has a reason for what he did.

I'm sure many people are just like me, curious as to the reason someone who once said he'd spend all his money to find Madeleine has withdrawn what for him, is a relatively minor expense.

Kennedy is or was a successful business man yes.

The problem is that we get judged by our actions..and indeed by the company that we keep. In his case he wasnt getting judged too well on either. It was said that while the McCanns and Murat was arguidos he went to Murats..when..as the McCanns backer maybe it wasnt a smart move. He also appeared to be behind the Metodo thugs and ofc...when the people he was backing were arguidos...maybe it wasnt a good idea for Metodo going to see Smith especially when it had already been announced that Metodo had been following and trying to intimidate Mrs Murat. Then there is the Metodo guy currently in jail who said they was paid to get people to say they had seen Madeleiene....it all led to a lot of people saying they was going to boycot his businesses as in THEIR opinion he was trying to pervert the course of justice.

Brian Kennedy i think got far too involved personally and ... doesnt come across as very honourable somehow. MOO
 
McScamms?????

Typo or intentional victim bashing?

I have never bashed Madeleine and never would.

She is the ONLY victim here...her and the peoples whose lives have been ruined by the Tapas Gang

MOO
 
I have never bashed Madeleine and never would.

She is the ONLY victim here...her and the peoples whose lives have been ruined by the Tapas Gang

MOO

It is not true that Madeline is the "only" victim. Her family and those she was taken away from are victims also, until such time as they would be convicted of a crime - and that hasn't happened. Remember? Presumption of innocence! I wonder how you are going to feel when you find out you are wrong...food for thought!
 
It is not true that Madeline is the "only" victim. Her family and those she was taken away from are victims also, until such time as they would be convicted of a crime - and that hasn't happened. Remember? Presumption of innocence! I wonder how you are going to feel when you find out you are wrong...food for thought!

Presumption of evidence is legal status, not moral.

Personally, if I am wrong about the McCanns, I'll be happy if it means that Madeleine is somehow, indeed alive.

How will you feel if you are wrong?

And does it matter, anyway? If anyone is convicted by facts, and feels the McCanns are wrong, why would they feel emotionally guilty for making presumably logical conclusions?

It's not about "feelings."
 
It is not true that Madeline is the "only" victim. Her family and those she was taken away from are victims also, until such time as they would be convicted of a crime - and that hasn't happened. Remember? Presumption of innocence! I wonder how you are going to feel when you find out you are wrong...food for thought!

And i wonder how YOU will feel..If they are ever convicted...that you supported these people...

I dont believe i will ever be found to be wrong about this...the McCanns have lied way too much...
 
And i wonder how YOU will feel..If they are ever convicted...that you supported these people...

I dont believe i will ever be found to be wrong about this...the McCanns have lied way too much...

My life doesn't revolve around whether I am right or wrong about the McCanns.

One of my fondest wishes is that Madeleine McCann be found alive and reunited with her family. If that is not the case, then I would hope her body would be found, so we can all find closure.
 
Presumption of evidence is legal status, not moral.
Thats just a very convenient cop out that allows for any outrageous claim without guilt IMO.
Personally, if I am wrong about the McCanns, I'll be happy if it means that Madeleine is somehow, indeed alive.
Thats good of you. :(
How will you feel if you are wrong?
Personally I would feel very sad.

But on the other hand if I am not wrong....
I definately wouldn't have to carry the guilt of knowing I had made accusations and condemned the parents of a missing child while they were suffering every parents nightmare.

I definately wouldn't have to carry the guilt of knowing I had added to that unbearable pain without any evidence they had commited any crime.
And does it matter, anyway?
If anyone is convicted by facts, and feels the McCanns are wrong, why would they feel emotionally guilty for making presumably logical conclusions?
Geeez are you serious? If so your comment explains a lot Texana!!!

And there is nothing logical about making accusations against Madeleine's parents after the final report has confirmed there is no evidence they commited any crime.
It's not about "feelings."

No it shouldn't be about feelings. :(
 
My life doesn't revolve around whether I am right or wrong about the McCanns.

One of my fondest wishes is that Madeleine McCann be found alive and reunited with her family. If that is not the case, then I would hope her body would be found, so we can all find closure.


Yay something we agree on ; )
 
Thats a cop out that allows for any outrageous claim without guilt.
Thats good of you. :(
Personally I would feel very sad.

But on the other hand if I am not wrong....
I definately wouldn't have to carry the guilt of knowing I had made accusations and condemned the parents of a missing child while they are suffering every parents nightmare.

I definately wouldn't have to carry the guilt of knowing I had added to that unbearable pain without any evidence they had commited any crime.
Geeez are you serious? Your comment explains a lot Texana!!!

And there is nothing logical about making accusations against Madeleine's parents after the final report has confirmed there is no evidence they commited any crime.


No it shouldn't be about feelings. :(


It also said there was no evidence of a kidnapping...
 
It also said there was no evidence of a kidnapping...
Why don't you post the whole truth Isabella?
Is it because it doesn't fit with your theory? :waitasec:

This is what public prosecutors Jose de Magalhaes and Joao Melchior Gomes said in the final report.....

"No element of proof whatsoever was found which allows us to form any lucid, sensible, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances (of Madeleine's disappearance).
*****

You really would learn something if you read the final report. :)
 
Presumption of evidence is legal status, not moral.

However, I said presumption of innocence, not evidence, but you are still correct, it is a legal status. In human nature it is called the "benefit of the doubt" as I am sure you know.

Personally, if I am wrong about the McCanns, I'll be happy if it means that Madeleine is somehow, indeed alive.

That would certainly be the best case scenario, wouldn't it...that Madeline be found alive? So are you thinking if for some reason it wasn't the parents there is no chance of her being dead?

How will you feel if you are wrong?

I am not steadfast in any belief other than the child was probably really abducted, and I think it is sad the police are no longer looking for her. If it is proven that she was killed (at the hands of an abductor or her parents), then I would want justice for the crime.

And does it matter, anyway? If anyone is convicted by facts, and feels the McCanns are wrong, why would they feel emotionally guilty for making presumably logical conclusions?

I asked the question (of Isabella) because of previous comments she had made. I said nothing about emotional guilt, but I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

It's not about "feelings."

Obviously it is about feelings and opinions and emotions, and how they are all interconnected. Different cases grab our interest and our emotions. That is what keeps us coming back to discuss it years later. People have been following the JBR case for 12 years, and this one for 2. If there is no emotional side to this, you wouldn't still be here!
 
However, I said presumption of innocence, not evidence, but you are still correct, it is a legal status. In human nature it is called the "benefit of the doubt" as I am sure you know.



That would certainly be the best case scenario, wouldn't it...that Madeline be found alive? So are you thinking if for some reason it wasn't the parents there is no chance of her being dead?



I am not steadfast in any belief other than the child was probably really abducted, and I think it is sad the police are no longer looking for her. If it is proven that she was killed (at the hands of an abductor or her parents), then I would want justice for the crime.



I asked the question (of Isabella) because of previous comments she had made. I said nothing about emotional guilt, but I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.



Obviously it is about feelings and opinions and emotions, and how they are all interconnected. Different cases grab our interest and our emotions. That is what keeps us coming back to discuss it years later. People have been following the JBR case for 12 years, and this one for 2. If there is no emotional side to this, you wouldn't still be here!

Nicely argued. You make some good points.

Of course, I'm not going to agree with your position. :)

(And as for Madeleine being alive, her parents consistently emphasize that she is still alive in the hands of her abductors, and as Kate put it, "findable." So I was sticking with that line of thought. Statistically speaking, of course, the odds of her being abducted and still alive are minimal.)
 
Nicely argued. You make some good points.

Of course, I'm not going to agree with your position. :)

(And as for Madeleine being alive, her parents consistently emphasize that she is still alive in the hands of her abductors, and as Kate put it, "findable." So I was sticking with that line of thought. Statistically speaking, of course, the odds of her being abducted and still alive are minimal.)

I don't have the expectation of changing your mind, however, I can agree to disagree very easily with you...it makes conversing worthwhile!
 
I don't have the expectation of changing your mind, however, I can agree to disagree very easily with you...it makes conversing worthwhile!

Mental Sudoku.

However, if I'm not mistaken, you have yet to offer any explanation for Brian Kennedy's withdrawal of financial support.

See, here's the thing: All the facts and evidence I see point to something other than an actual abduction. The evidence from that night, the actions and contradictions of the McCanns and their friends, the very, very disturbing comments and actions of the Mccanns after the fact (Kate saying "I sleep fine!' and when asked if she wanted to say anything to Madeleine, "She knows we love her," etc, etc.

None of it makes sense with an abduction. It all does make sense with an accidental death and two parents thinking they might lose their other children (as my administrator at work says, "Perception is reality" when you deal with parents and children) and taking desperate measures to keep those children.

I actually hope to be convinced I'm wrong. I see enough consequences everyday from bad parents, mediocre parents, and the desperate ones. I know most parents are trying their best--which is why I can't let the McCanns off for their decisions, but I can understand why they made them.

So, back to the point: Why did Brian Kennedy stop paying for Clarence Mitchell? And what does this mean for the McCanns?
 
Mental Sudoku.

However, if I'm not mistaken, you have yet to offer any explanation for Brian Kennedy's withdrawal of financial support.

You are correct, I have not offered an opinion or explanation on Brian Kennedy, and there are many many other things I have not committed to as well, mainly because I haven't been over here discussing this case with all of you for 2 years. My main concern is always the victim(s) and their families, and subsequently, justice for the victim(s). I'll read up on it and come back to it later, however I think the only way to know for sure is to hear what Mr. Kennedy has to say about it.

See, here's the thing: All the facts and evidence I see point to something other than an actual abduction. The evidence from that night, the actions and contradictions of the McCanns and their friends, the very, very disturbing comments and actions of the Mccanns after the fact (Kate saying "I sleep fine!' and when asked if she wanted to say anything to Madeleine, "She knows we love her," etc, etc.
And when I can't make sense of something I go as deep as I can go...to the finite...and try to work my way back from there. Madeline was alive and staying in the apt with her parents and siblings. Her parents were at dinner with friends, and Madeline went missing during that time. Three children were left "sleeping" by the parents and only two were found alive in the apt after a period of time. Whether someone came in or she found a way out, the child was still missing. No one found her wandering outside and returned her to her parents, or the hotel management, therefore a child, taken by someone other than her caregiver at the time, either from inside or outside the apt. I don't know what it is called in Portugal, but as you well know, here we call that kidnapping and/or abduction. I have spoken with many parents who have said "I wonder what made me say that" when referencing a press conference or interview. None of those parents were guilty of harming their child. Grief and shock are not reliable measures of a person's true nature. It is the hardest time, when a child is missing, to keep the parents focused in a discussion. In their mind, they are feeling guilt at not protecting their child as a parent, and I am sure the McCanns went through a lot of that as do other parents of missing kids. Doesn't mean they did something overtly to harm them, they just didn't protect them as parents should. They will suffer from that for a long time whether they are guilty of harming her or not.

I know you have trouble with the timeline of the witnesses. What if they all checked their watches to see what the current time was and found that among all the couples that there was a 5 minute variance. Wouldn't that put everyone's timeline off? I can look at my watch right now, and compare it to all the clocks in my house, and they won't all be the same. Wouldn't a 5 minute difference make a big difference in the stores related by the group members who had dinner?

As for other separate line items. May we discuss them one at a time? I will have a lot of reading and catching up to do before I can say I am well versed on what ahs been said.

I found with the E. Smart case, that things are seldom as they appear. Tom Smart said the words "It was a beautiful thing" in a national interview and was chastised for saying that because the general public thought he was commenting on the abduction, and therefore thought he had something to do with her kidnapping, or at least knew more than he should. In actuality, he was running on 36 hours of no sleep and was a few seconds slower than the interviewer in responding to a question about how many searchers showed up. Makes sense in that context.

To me, Kate saying "I sleep fine" means she sleeps without guilt because she didn't harm her child.
None of it makes sense with an abduction. It all does make sense with an accidental death and two parents thinking they might lose their other children (as my administrator at work says, "Perception is reality" when you deal with parents and children) and taking desperate measures to keep those children.

I agree with your administrator, a person's perception is their reality period, whether it has to do with children or not. You can go one step further by saying their reality is based on their frame-of-reference. Now, where does their frame-of-reference come from? Usually, it comes from their life experiences.

I actually hope to be convinced I'm wrong. I see enough consequences everyday from bad parents, mediocre parents, and the desperate ones. I know most parents are trying their best--which is why I can't let the McCanns off for their decisions, but I can understand why they made them.

I hope you are wrong too, because that would mean there is a chance that Madeline might be alive...somewhere...with someone. Unfortunately in this day and age, we all live in a world which contains too much crime, and especially too many crimes against children. It wasn't like this 30 years ago. Our children were safer outside playing, walking to the store, walking home from school...today they aren't safe there and they are not even safe in their own homes.

So, back to the point: Why did Brian Kennedy stop paying for Clarence Mitchell? And what does this mean for the McCanns?
I don't mean this to be a glib answer, but Kennedy would have to be the one to give that answer. Has anyone heard him comment on the subject? I will read what I can find about the earlier offers to support the investigation financially, and perhaps we can return to the question at a later point in time.
 
It's interesting you bring up Ed Smart. He came out in support of the McCanns. However, the one thing anyone picks up immediately about Ed Smart is that he believes the best about everyone. I think that a) he's just naturally that kind of truly good person himself and genuinely sincere and b) he hasn't met that many truly bad people in his life and line of work.

His mistake was hiring a certified loon and homeless man to do handyman work around his house, which sadly, has led to far worse outcomes for other people just as trusting or naive.

Also, as with other parents and family of missing children, he and all of his family, if I'm not mistaken, took lie detector tests immediately. The McCanns and none of their friends have ever done so.

As for the time line discrepancies: Of course, the accounts could be off a few minutes. But again, none of the McCanns or their friends have shown any interest in reconciling the differences. In fact, they refuse to discuss those differences or the discrepancies.

And regarding Kate's comment "I sleep fine," she would be perhaps the first responsible parent to sleep fine--all the same--with a missing preschooler.
If you find that interview on You Tube she comes across as oddly defensive--although it's a sympathetic question. The natural answer would be more along the lines of "I don't think I will ever sleep soundly until my child is home safe again with me" but Kate is defiant--"I sleep fine."

Another odd comment is Kate and Gerry in one of the later interview last summer defending their acts in leaving the children alone. They even say, "if we had to do it again we'd make the same decision." (paraphrasing slightly as to pronouns.)

Now, who says that? Who doesn't say instead, "Of course, if only we had known a predator was near by, we would never have trusted anyone!"

Their inability to take even the slightest hint of responsibility or regret or condemn the "babywatching" practice isn't just odd. It's pathological.

So again, you have two people who make a really stupid, irresponsible decision regarding their young children, something bad happens to one of the children, and they cannot even bring themselves to say "of course we would do things differently." Kate says that Madeleine is probably giving her "tuppence's worth" to some abductor and Gerry says he hopes she is being treated like a "little princess."

It's irrational behavior for two educated, intelligent people whose child is missing. It's not irrational behavior for two educated, intelligent people who know their child is no longer living, who feel that they lost their child to a tragic and unforeseen accident, and who because of their faith believe their child is heaven and they will see her again.
 
Sadly, I think b).

Does Isabella also call Madeleine "Madeleine McScamm"? What about the twins? Are they included in the name-calling?

Isabella is not the subject of discussion.

Madeleine McCann is.

And as a side note, if Isabella chooses to call the McCanns flying rats' tails, (as Mr. Texana does in his more colorful idiomatic speech, courtesy of his North Carolina forebears, which probably doesn't mean a hoot to anyone across the Atlantic but has great significance to anyone living below the Mason-Dixon Line--0

It. Does. Not. Justify. Answering.

The Mods will, rest assured, take care of it, and any flying rat's tails as well.

Let's get back on topic.

My points: I'd love to hear differing explanations of Kate's comments/tone about sleeping well--less than two months, I believe, after Madeleine went missing.

Or as well, the McCanns' comment that if they "had to do it over again, they'd make the same decision."
 
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